Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.

JaumeJ · Oct 2, 2015

I had an itch to post a new thread, "Do Not Post Anything About Pharisees." The text would have been, They will appear out of nowhere."

At this point it is moot because this very act has been demonstrated fully, so I do not need to post it. God bless all in Jesus Christ...and you all know who you are, amen.

KennethC · Oct 2, 2015

just-me said:

Here is the thing though and that is that soldiers as well as police officers are suppose to be in place to protect the innocent, oppressed, and persecuted.

Some situations escalate to the point that killing is unavoidable, and such then this situation is acceptable in the eyes/Word of God.

However if at any time and point killing can be avoided then it should be, as in carrying out killing a person when it does not have to be that way turns it to murder. Such is the case with the death penalty, as the person is already locked up away from others. They can be kept locked up in solitary confinement for the rest of their life, which would ensure no other person will be harmed by them and also give them time to be ministered to and acknowledge their sin and repent.

If they choose not to repent that is on them, but if we make a judgment call on their life that is on us !!!

eternally-gratefull · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

so are you perfect?

Because even though yes, they are still valid. Perfect obedience is also.

If your not perfect at obeying these ten, then you do not have even a start to heaven, and there are SO SO MANY More commands than these, which would be consitituted as sin

You see, your the pharisee. Because they too taught these were requried, And they too though thought they were perfect So the part of the sacrifice (faith mercy and judgment) whent right out the door. And they rejected Christ, Like your doing.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

That's true. But people break the two great laws all the time by fixating on the letter. For example, you can observe the sabbath yet not do the righteousness that the 4th commandment requires.

PeterJens · Oct 2, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

The law helps us define what sin is. You made everything a human does sin by using the term "carnal thinking" which is meaningless. If everything is a sin, then there is no difference in what you do, because nothing is righteous.

A neat trick, say morality is meaningless, so then there is nothing to be condemned over.

You said no one will be perfect. But we are all perfect in Christ, washed and made whole. We just have to walk in it and claim it. Only when we see Jesus will we be able to say if that was achieved or did we fail. I get the feeling you are not even interested in talking about it, let alone living it. It must be because you truly live in condemnation and do not believe you can conquer sin so dare not properly define it. This is the way of the world not of God.

Do you think the law was written to be ignored, even under grace.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
2 Tim 3:16

We are called to be righteous. Now we stumble, we have struggles, but we are told to repent, to flee temptation etc.
I do not understand why righteousness has become so impossible, unless you have added so much to the law, it is all hopeless unless you take the form of faith and fake the rest.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 2, 2015

PeterJens said:

Dude, this is the most misused and misapplied question anyone has ever asked. (where was that thread that said how can you spot a legalism. Here is one of the things, if this question is asked)

so Why are you worried about murder, and not every other sin? James said if you break even the LEAST of the law. your guilty of the WHOLE law.

So a liar is just as guilty as a murderer, A person who did not serve hs neighbor is just as guilty as a murder.

So think of another question to ask that does not make you sound legalistic.

Or have you not read, where James said a person who is a hearer and not a doer is a fraud (faith without works is dead has no value can not save you), or John, who said a child of God can not sin, one who sins has never seen God or known him. maybe you missed those passages?

Again I ask, Are you perfect?

If not You have not lived up to your own questions and standard. so instead of judging me, you better get on to that obeying law stuff and be perfect. for that would be your only hope..

Oh wait, too late, you already failed.. NEXT

You just answered your own question.

And it is obvious you have not listened to what I teach, (see above)

Now would you like to get of your high horse. and actually ASK a person what they teach instead of judging them?

Jesus said if you hate your brother, you are guilty of murder.

You did not get the message, that the thought of hate, is just as guilty of the physical act of doing it

Jesus said if you lust after a women, you have committed sexual sin.

Again you did not get the message, that thought of a sin makes one just as guilty as doing it, even if they never acted on their sin. (and before you get all high and mighty, and say a person who has a momentary thought is not a sinner, Look up the word LUST, I never said a momentary thought was sin)

and what we have learned here is that the law of moses can not lead us to moral goodness, Because the law of moses never told us those two things, and so many more. Thats why the pharisee thought they obeyed the law. But did not. because they may have obeyed the letter (which they did not even do this, they just thought they did). But they failed at the spiritual.

so.. are you going to learn or keep judging because I happened to upset you some time again, and your on some vendetta?

KennethC · Oct 2, 2015

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Well that would be a false observance of the Sabbath if they are not doing the righteous requirement of doing it for God.

If they are not doing it for God then they are doing it for self, which is sin.....................

Remember in the NT it says what the law say (written ordinances) it says to those who are under it, as in those who transgress it. It is not for those who walk by the Spirit which will be in the righteous ways of the Lord that set before us in His teachings and commands, that the fruit of the Holy Spirit will keep us on track to continue in if we obey those instructions.

We are not puppets on strings and still have free will, for if we didn't then sinning would be completely impossible to do for a born again believer. Abiding in Christ there is no sin and James shows that when we sin it is because we were drawn away.

just-me · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

Numbers 35:11-15
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And they shall be unto you cities for refuge from the avenger; that the manslayer die not, until he stand before the congregation in judgment.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And of these cities which ye shall give six cities shall ye have for refuge.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Ye shall give three cities on this side Jordan, and three cities shall ye give in the land of Canaan, which shall be cities of refuge.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.

Deuteronomy 17:6

At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

It would be nice if the congress of the US were all believers in governing a nation according to God's government defined in the law that He gave to Israel. Just sayin' and not debatin'

Nevertheless, the hypocritical Pharisees didn't have a clue because of their own omission.

ukok102nak · Oct 2, 2015

just-me said:

Literally your correct my brethren : happy:

I'm very greatful for that and becaused of this let me tell you a
Also about the mystery that we've learned

Matthew: 26. 39. And going a little further, he fell upon his face, praying, and saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this chalice pass from me. Nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
40. And he cometh to his disciples, and findeth them asleep, and he saith to Peter: What? Could you not watch one hour with me?
41. Watch ye, and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh weak.
42. Again the second time, he went and prayed, saying: My Father, if this chalice may not pass away, but I must drink it, thy will be done.
43. And he cometh again and findeth them sleeping: for their eyes were heavy.
44. And leaving them, he went again: and he prayed the third time, saying the selfsame word.

Take note SAYING THE SELFSAME WORD

Also this pretence make long prayer that was done by those pharisses
According to our lord Christ Jesus
Is this
Luke: 18. 11. The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican.
12. I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O god, be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather that the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.

We really love to share what is written in the holy scripture and
even a little information like this makes our heart and soul :happy:

thank you so much my brothers and my sisters
my brethren :smoke: and my fellows

eternally-gratefull · Oct 2, 2015

PeterJens said:

No it does not. Jesus proved this on the sermon on the mount, That why it can never make you holy

But nice try.

Carnal thinking is SELF thinking (it takes for self. it hurts others, it does not care about others, it uses others)

All commands are broken by Carnal thinking, it is what is the power behind ALL sin.

if you can not understand this, your in trouble. and can easily become self righteous.

Oh so the true love of others in everything we do teaches us to be immoral?

You have alot to learn my friend.

Justification is not the same as sanctification.

Justificaion is perfect in Christ
Sanctification is how one grows to be like Christ.
Santification will not equal justification until glorification. Which will happen in eternity.

You will never be perfect (santified conitionally) thats why we continue to rin the race. Never thinking we attaned it. because we know we have not.

So have you stopped running?

again, are you perfect?

lol.. The law has no PURPOSE for a child of God. as I already proved, and also did jesus, the law of love FULFILLs the law of moses.

I can go on all my life and never commit murder, never buy things out of self gain, never commit obvert sexual sin

yet in my mind, I hate my brothers, Am jealose of what they have which makes me angry, and lust all kinds of women, and am addicted to porn..

I have obeyed the law. I Did not do what he said not to do.

But I am worthy of judgment Because I failed to LOVE..

HeRoseFromTheDead · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

Where is it written that doing the sabbath for GOD fulfills the righteousness required by the 4th commandment?

KennethC · Oct 2, 2015

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

OMGosh really................

Everything we do we are to do it for God first including the observance of the Sabbath, and the observance of the Sabbath now is resting in the righteous works of Christ.

To follow them in our lives instead of doing our own thing, as His way is light and His commands are not burdensome.

Resting in Christ does not mean we don't have to do nothing, it means that His ways are easier to walk in as it all hangs on walking in LOVE !!!

1 Corinthians 13 tells us exactly what LOVE does.....................

eternally-gratefull · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

The command to rest on day 7 was long before the law.

So ken here just gave everyone an excuse to work hard 7 days a week and never rest. (I E he just gave everyone an excuse to sin)

Way to go Ken.

just-me · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

OMGosh really................

Everything we do we are to do it for God first including the observance of the Sabbath, and the observance of the Sabbath now is resting in the righteous works of Christ.

To follow them in our lives instead of doing our own thing, as His way is light and His commands are not burdensome.

Resting in Christ does not mean we don't have to do nothing, it means that His ways are easier to walk in as it all hangs on walking in LOVE !!!

1 Corinthians 13 tells us exactly what LOVE does.....................

I am restricted from giving you another rep point. Just cannot bring myself to spread it around to everybody. LOL

KennethC · Oct 2, 2015

just-me said:

This here is the issue though that is being discussed here, the difference in the written focus compared to the moral/Spiritual focus.

If you focus on the physical ordinance of Deuteronomy 17:6, then you over look the moral/Spiritual aspect that Jesus said to show mercy and forgive them.

If the physical is still to be upheld as stated then Paul should have been put to death, for his murdering of Stephen and others before conversion. However the Lord showed mercy to him instead !!!

eternally-gratefull · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

hey we agree..

So what paul said is true then, if your going to follow one aspect. your indebted to follow every aspect (the law is not to be broken up into little pieces, it was a unit, and required to be obeyed as a unit

ukok102nak · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

Here is the thing though and that is that soldiers as well as police officers are suppose to be in place to protect the innocent, oppressed, and persecuted.

Some situations escalate to the point that killing is unavoidable, and such then this situation is acceptable in the eyes/Word of God.

However if at any time and point killing can be avoided then it should be, as in carrying out killing a person when it does not have to be that way turns it to murder. Such is the case with the death penalty, as the person is already locked up away from others. They can be kept locked up in solitary confinement for the rest of their life, which would ensure no other person will be harmed by them and also give them time to be ministered to and acknowledge their sin and repent.

If they choose not to repent that is on them, but if we make a judgment call on their life that is on us !!!

That's were trying to say

:scarf: Gladly all is not loss at all :yawn:

thank you very much my brethren and my fellow
And godbless always to all of my brothers and sisters

KennethC · Oct 2, 2015

Those who believe working on the Sabbath is a sin needs to go and reread the NT and see how the observance of the Sabbath has changed !!!

PeterJens · Oct 2, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

We are not the thought police. You are not too good with concepts.
Jesus talked about murder and anger against fellow believers. Where is there hatred?
Anger is an emotional reaction, which Jesus is saying has consequences if aimed at fellow believers.
But it is not a condemnation of anger as Jesus got angry about sin, about abuse of the temple.

Lust and adultery. Jesus is saying lustfully looking at women is about committing adultery in your heart which is just as bad as the actual act. The looking lustfully is an action which shows intent, desires an interaction, which leads to sin.
The problem here is biology creates a response in people whether they choose to or not. It is not a sin to be attracted to someone, but to physically act on such desires is a sin.

You are wrong thoughts are not sin. People can be ravaged by many thoughts but choose to behave righteously. This does not make them a sinner. Sins are actions that lead to death, but they come because of the lack of communion with God.
We are doomed to sin because there is no hope outside communion with God and walking in love, so we will fail and fall.

But such a limitation is not in the Kingdom. What you have not understood is walking in perfection is not about knowing you are doing it, because tomorrow you could fail. It is just about walking. Grace means when we fail, or if we fail, we can get up again and walk on.

The problem with measuring righteousness as justification is we have sins of omission, things we have failed to do but we should have done. We have sins speaking the truth, which later turned out to be untrue. But with all these limitations we are still called to be a righteous holy people.

You do make me laugh, because I know your position, but I do not understand why morality holds such fear for you? Do you wish to live in an unworthy manner for the Lord? Those who have been forgiven much often do much. Maybe you spent your life being "righteous" so have tired of it and it seems a burden you are now free from. I do not relate to this because righteousness for me is just doing the right thing.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 2, 2015

KennethC said:

God did not change something that was a sin even before the law, to all of a sudden say it is not sin

He did it for our own need, not for his own.. He did not take that back.

What got skewed by Israel is what it meant to obey the sabbath, The nt Did not change that, It corrected that false thinking.

Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.

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