Tree of "Good and Evil". What is it really?

[RussellJBenigno]

I don't know about yall but the farther has given me the truth and the way to achieve it. It is unveiled to the eye of the beholder I guess. For I see our divine nature that we can obtain. And that is our connection with God. It can only be attain by true love for the Farther and His Word. You must not be self but become the Word. Children have the key to the kingdom for they haven't developed a self yet. The nature of men is to mimic or copy others they love. By doing this we develop self but a copied self. Not knowing this we do it freely mimicking others when we should mimicking Yeshua. Have a bless day!

Thank you for your impute and I agree with much of what you posted.

 

[entranced]

TinTin,

On the topic of judging other believers....

I place it in a general context with two parts - 1. that of iron sharpening iron. and 2. A special view of judgement

That is, a possible definition of Christian judgement...one discerns that there is an error in another's paradigm/walk, but the love that you feel for that person is not diminished by it. The love doesn't stop. That is how you know you aren't "condemning" someone for what their conscience has allowed them to embrace, but are calling it into question in a spirit of "iron sharpening iron," for their benefit.

Iron sharpening iron, to me, is a loving way to handle a judgement of someone else, and it is really difficult to do with a non believer - friction for the sake of building up and making more effective.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

I think that the key to understanding the Tree of the knowledge of "Good and Evil" is understanding that in Hebrew, the words ט֣וֺב וָרָ֔ע good and evil are an idiom for all things. The fruit of this tree brought omniscience; but not absolute omniscience such as only God may have. Since Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, knowledge has increased exponentially in every century; but such knowledge, when not subject to God's guidance, has great potential for harm and evil. Man has ever increasing potential to destroy himself.

More precisely what is the idiom?

 

[MarcR]

Ezekiel 31 Give us a glimpse into what was happening in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were not eating an apple as we were taught. The tree was not a green leafy tree under which they sat. The scripture many times uses metaphors to explain simple truths. I think these metaphors come about, because the real meaning has been lost over time. I'm sure the book of Genesis was given by oral tradition for years until written down.

Ezek 31:1-18...., the word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and his hordes: ​​​​​​“‘Who are you like in your greatness? ​​​Consider Assyria, a cedar in Lebanon, ​​​​​​with beautiful branches, like a forest giving shade, ​​​​​​and extremely tall; ​​​​​​its top reached into the clouds. ​​​​​​​The water made it grow; ​​​​​​underground springs made it grow tall. ​​​​​​Rivers flowed all around the place it was planted, ​​​​​​while smaller channels watered all the trees of the field. ​​​​​​​Therefore it grew taller than all the trees of the field; ​​​​​​its boughs grew large and its branches grew long, ​​​​​​because of the plentiful water in its shoots. ​​​​​​​All the birds of the sky nested in its boughs; ​​​​​​under its branches all the beasts of the field gave birth, ​​​​​​in its shade all the great nations lived. ​​​​​​​It was beautiful in its loftiness, in the length of its branches; ​​​​​​for its roots went down deep to plentiful waters. ​​​​​​​The cedars in the garden of God could not eclipse it, ​​​​​​nor could the fir trees match its boughs; ​​​​​​the plane trees were as nothing compared to its branches; ​​​​​​no tree in the garden of God could rival its beauty. ​​​​​​​I made it beautiful with its many branches; ​​​​​​all the trees of Eden, in the garden of God, envied it.
“‘Therefore this is what the sovereign LORD says: Because it was tall in stature, and its top reached into the clouds, and it was proud of its height, I gave it over to the leader of the nations. He has judged it thoroughly, as its sinfulness deserves. I have thrown it out. Foreigners from the most terrifying nations have cut it down and left it to lie there on the mountains. In all the valleys its branches have fallen, and its boughs lie broken in the ravines of the land. All the peoples of the land have departed from its shade and left it. On its ruins all the birds of the sky will live, and all the wild animals will walk on its branches. For this reason no watered trees will grow so tall; their tops will not reach into the clouds, nor will the well-watered ones grow that high. For all of them have been appointed to die in the lower parts of the earth; they will be among mere mortals, with those who descend to the pit. “‘This is what the sovereign LORD says: On the day it went down to Sheol I caused observers to lament. I covered it with the deep and held back its rivers; its plentiful water was restrained. I clothed Lebanon in black for it, and all the trees of the field wilted because of it. I made the nations shake at the sound of its fall, when I threw it down to Sheol, along with those who descend to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and the best of Lebanon, all that were well-watered, were comforted in the earth below. Those who lived in its shade, its allies among the nations, also went down with it to Sheol, to those killed by the sword.Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness? You will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the lower parts of the earth; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword! This is what will happen to Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”

The trees spoken of go back to the Garden of Eden, which means they were thousands of years old. These were not men because men are mentioned in the text. These were beyond men and existed in the Garden of Eden. When Adam was told to tend to the trees of the Garden, he was tending to teachers who bore fruit [teachings]. When Eve brought Adam fruit to eat, it was teachings. The trees are angelic beings who are over countries and existed from the time of the Garden of Eden.

There is a body of Jewish literature called the Cabbala which consists and occult practices. It is far outside what is accepted in mainstream Judaism! It appears that you are following some teacher of NT mysticism. It is certainly NOT consistent with mainstream Christian thought!

 

[entranced]

Russell, I know that your argument rests on the idea that the trees are angels due to their emotional responses to things. At least, I think that is where you were going - I could have gotten it wrong. What I want to know, I guess, is whether or not it would be possible for the trees to be TREES, but trees that are subjected to the perception of the garden intended for an unfallen mankind. You know - had things turned out differently, we could feel the emotions of trees - just a thought for the pile Thanks, by the way, for saying hey earlier.

 

[MarcR]

The text is plain to see. Trees don't envy, or die in the lower parts of the earth among mere mortals. This text points to beings who existed in the garden. Whether or not the garden was destroyed is not the point. The point is that there is more than just angels and men.
​​​​​​all the trees of Eden, in the garden of God, envied it.
Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness?
For all of them have been appointed to die in the lower parts of the earth; they will be among mere mortals.

Much of OT Scripture contains anthropomorphisms and other similar metaphor. It is a very early development in Hebrew writing, both Biblical and Secular. It should be taken for what it is intended to be; which is a teaching technique using extreme and sometimes outrageous comparisons----though those found in Scripture tend to be less extreme.

 

[entranced]

Without doubt, the use of metaphor that may, in fact, point to a larger truth is a beautiful and potent method of our Savior's teaching. Even the Creation itself was referenced as a woman in labor! ...and people wonder where the term Mother Nature came from??? Just kidding. I don't know if Mother Nature really came from that Bible scripture in the NT

 

[RussellJBenigno]

There is a body of Jewish literature called the Cabbala which consists and occult practices. It is far outside what is accepted in mainstream Judaism! It appears that you are following some teacher of NT mysticism. It is certainly NOT consistent with mainstream Christian thought!

Sorry! I follow no one and read no other literature except the bible. I consider modern christianity occult and outside the mainstream thought of scripture. Much of modern christianity denies the teachings of Jesus and comes nowhere close to His Gospel. I believed what mainstream believed until I was told to read the bible without altering it and that changed everything for me.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Russell, I know that your argument rests on the idea that the trees are angels due to their emotional responses to things. At least, I think that is where you were going - I could have gotten it wrong. What I want to know, I guess, is whether or not it would be possible for the trees to be TREES, but trees that are subjected to the perception of the garden intended for an unfallen mankind. You know - had things turned out differently, we could feel the emotions of trees - just a thought for the pile Thanks, by the way, for saying hey earlier.

Well! People can apply the text as they see fit and your welcome to it. But yes I am basing my thought on the consciousness of the trees. They are acting with intelligence. To say they are just woody trees flies in the face of all the emotion and consciousness being exhibited. This leads me to them being some form of spiritual being. If you read the entirety of my posting you can follow the thought to its conclusion.

 

[maxwel]

Sorry! I follow no one and read no other literature except the bible. I consider modern christianity occult and outside the mainstream thought of scripture. Much of modern christianity denies the teachings of Jesus and comes nowhere close to His Gospel. I believed what mainstream believed until I was told to read the bible without altering it and that changed everything for me.

"I consider modern Christianity occult..."

1. This website, Christian Chat, is part of modern Christianity...
are you saying this website is occult?

2. Every member here, by virtue of being born into modernity, is part of modern Christianity...
are you saying all of the members here are part of the occult?

3. All of the members here belong to churches which are invariably part of the modern world...
are you saying of their churches are occult?

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Russell, I know that your argument rests on the idea that the trees are angels due to their emotional responses to things. At least, I think that is where you were going - I could have gotten it wrong. What I want to know, I guess, is whether or not it would be possible for the trees to be TREES, but trees that are subjected to the perception of the garden intended for an unfallen mankind. You know - had things turned out differently, we could feel the emotions of trees - just a thought for the pile Thanks, by the way, for saying hey earlier.

Ok! I see where your going with it. A type of connection with creation and tapping into the spiritual part of creation. I believe there is a place for that. Cool! But! These so called trees are controlling men.

 

[Tintin]

"I consider modern Christianity occult..."

1. This website, Christian Chat, is part of modern Christianity...
are you saying this website is occult?

2. Every member here, by virtue of being born into modernity, is part of modern Christianity...
are you saying all of the members here are part of the occult?

3. All of the members here belong to churches which are invariably part of the modern world...
are you saying of their churches are occult?

Funny, RJB. I would've said you're one of the few here who's posts reflect an occult understanding. You and your friends that joined not long ago. And are probably you under other usernames.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

"I consider modern Christianity occult..."

1. This website, Christian Chat, is part of modern Christianity...
are you saying this website is occult?

2. Every member here, by virtue of being born into modernity, is part of modern Christianity...
are you saying all of the members here are part of the occult?

3. All of the members here belong to churches which are invariably part of the modern world...
are you saying of their churches are occult?

Do you disagree with Jesus' teaching or have to change them?
Do you preach the same Gospel He preached or do you have to change it?
An old saying. "If the shoe fits wear it".

 

[posthuman]

I was told to read the bible without altering it and that changed everything for me.

how good that sounds! i like this!

that means when you come to a passage you don't like or don't understand or conflicts with your personal interpretation, you don't get to throw it out as "probably added by a scribe" right?

Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.
(Genesis 1:29)

​

if a tree falls to the south or to the north,
in the place where the tree falls, there it will lie.
(Ecclesiastes 11:3) ​

 

[Tintin]

how good that sounds! i like this!

that means when you come to a passage you don't like or don't understand or conflicts with your personal interpretation, you don't get to throw it out as "probably added by a scribe" right?

Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.
(Genesis 1:29)

​

if a tree falls to the south or to the north,
in the place where the tree falls, there it will lie.
(Ecclesiastes 11:3) ​

Uh. He doesn't do this. Trees are trees. He thinks they're angels or something. Blah.

 

[maxwel]

Do you disagree with Jesus' teaching or have to change them?
Do you preach the same Gospel He preached or do you have to change it?
An old saying. "If the shoe fits wear it".

I asked you 3 specific questions.
Why don't you answer them?

Are you afraid to stand up, and state clearly what you believe?
Is it all just talk, or can you stand up and state clearly what you believe?

Unless you're afraid, answer my 3 questions.

 

[posthuman]

Uh. He doesn't do this. Trees are trees. He thinks they're angels or something. Blah.

yes, he does.

he doesn't like that Jesus said any of us that want to follow Him have to take up our cross, so he deletes it.

I don't believe Jesus said it. I believe it is an insert from a later date. It was placed in there by someone who understood the meaning of the cross.

he doesn't understand Paul's instructions about women in authority in the church, so he deletes them.

I used to believe that a women could not be a Pastor, because I was taught that by men. As I was lead by the Holy Spirit I learned that those references were additions to the scripture.

he says he gets to edit scripture because he's spirit-led (and no one else is, well, except his disciple) - but he admits he gets it from a man.

Prophesier Bart D. Ehrman

whenever he doesn't like what scripture says, he feels free to remove a verse or two, without any justification more than that it conflicts with his private interpretation. because by his interpretation, scripture left alone and unaltered ​contradicts itself.

I'll try and get some together for discussion sake. I call them inserts and they are identifiable because they don't flow with the context of the rest of the text. Or they contradict the rest of scripture.

and while normally when scripture is symbolic, the text has obvious clues that the language is symbolic - according to Russ it's OK to alter the meaning of words, so that "trees" are no longer "trees" and "food" is no longer "food" and "eating" is no longer "eating" -- and if any scripture were to contradict him, since he's handily an apostle and prophet not to be questioned, he feels free to delete those verses as later additions without any evidence.

isn't that right, Russ?

 

[Tintin]

RJB, you're a modern-day Marcion of Sinope, and that's nothing to be proud of.

Posthuman, absolutely. It's rather sad and very dangerous and disturbing. If the shoe fits, wear it. If the tree's a tree, it's really an angel. Bahaha!

 

[entranced]

I'm impressed with and thankful for the work you put into finding the quotes from RJB's posts. It's okay if there are people out there whose beliefs fall outside of the norm, but it probably shouldn't be called Christian. What I'm wondering, though, is about this fella's edification. It would seem that he probably doesn't have many places where he can talk about this sort of thing and get serious responses, you know? It's kind of fringe; I can imagine a home group getting up in arms over what he's saying and having a big, ugly, and painful breaking of fellowship. Recall that our friend's phrase at the bottom of his window has to do with being hurt by the church. Is there any way to build him up, senior members? in a way that jives with your conscience regarding his stated beliefs? just wondering...as a child.

 

[Karraster]

The prophet some times see's things "Past, present and future". The prophet is receiving a piece of the mind of God. God is not hindered by time and space. So theoretically He sees all phases of time in a present tense. God lives in the "Now". For God "Now" is our past, present and future. So the prophet see's the spiritual beings [Present Tense] controlling the Kings [Pharaoh and Assyrian]. Since he is see things from God's perspective he is also seeing them in the Garden [Past Tense] in the same vision. It's really that simple.

I'm not sure what you are asking about cause and effect. The prophet is giving us a picture of what "is". They were in the garden and now they are present acting out the same thing they were doing in the garden. They were seeking prestige and power back then and presently they are doing the same thing, but through the lives of men.
Its like the men are a chess piece on a board through whom they [the spiritual beings] live. So yes! We can say there is a form of cause and effect. The beings seeking prestige and power are causing the human kings to seek prestige and power. Does this answer your question.

In practical use for our faith it demonstrated in we war not against flesh but powers in high places.
(Eph 6:11-13 [TS98])Put on the complete armour of Elohim, for you to have power to stand against the schemes of the devil.Because we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities,against authorities, against the world-rulers of the darknessof this age, against spiritual [matters] of wickedness in the heavenlies.
Because of this, take up the complete armour of Elohim, so that you have power to withstand in the wicked day, and having done all, to stand.

TY very much, this post has made some things "click". Yes, the powers (spiritual) are living (controlling) men! The parenthesis, as I understand it, are snapshots of explanation inserted within the message.perhaps showing the "backdrop" ..it's crucial to know where they are, otherwise you would read it all together in a linear fashion, not knowing it's a plot within a plot. You have demonstrated where they are!

John 4:24 God is a spirit. Those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." kjv