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S
Black and white issues are debatable. 
I like the question. It's a fair topic.
Much of the material on this site is free, but it costs people to provide the site to us. Should that cost us?
This seems like a slight deviation from your OP, but to answer directly: It's reasonable that those spreading the Gospel in some way, shape, or form be compensated for what they provide. It is not unfair that accessing their material should cost us, whether the cost yields a profit or not - and this goes for material being sold unrelated to the Gospel. Beyond that, I think the issue is subjective.
I like the question. It's a fair topic.
Much of the material on this site is free, but it costs people to provide the site to us. Should that cost us?
This seems like a slight deviation from your OP, but to answer directly: It's reasonable that those spreading the Gospel in some way, shape, or form be compensated for what they provide. It is not unfair that accessing their material should cost us, whether the cost yields a profit or not - and this goes for material being sold unrelated to the Gospel. Beyond that, I think the issue is subjective.
A
Um, see my first post to you. I already said I wasn't aiming anything I'm saying at you. So that "you" was plural, not singular.
So many assumptions. Let's let them loose. Rather like roaches. Hopefully most of them go to someone else's house. lol
(For Kenny? Yeah that was specifically to him, so not like I don't do both ways, but I really did tell you it wasn't directed at you in the first post. I suspect you're coming back to this over time. I'm actually going through the first time still -- back and forthing with housework in between, but on this through to the end.)
So many assumptions. Let's let them loose. Rather like roaches. Hopefully most of them go to someone else's house. lol
(For Kenny? Yeah that was specifically to him, so not like I don't do both ways, but I really did tell you it wasn't directed at you in the first post. I suspect you're coming back to this over time. I'm actually going through the first time still -- back and forthing with housework in between, but on this through to the end.)
I think one thing that bothers me most about all this is that "we" seem to want to be able to judge and decide what another man or woman "should" be allowed to earn, and how they should spend what little we concede they may be permitted to earn if their income happens to be derived from any means but a secular endeavor. (just to keep from saying, "job")
And the most insulting insinuation I have read here is the suggestion that a pastor and his family should hope that various families are willing to step up and make dinner for them..... and/or (by inference), grant them, periodically, some money to pay their mortgage and light bill.
That is relegating a good man and his family to the status of beggars that are at the mercy of our "kind" will at the moment.
No, no, no!!!!!! Give them the dignity of an earned and expected income that they can plan on and budget around, just like the rest of us. And a decent one, so that they can take vacations like anyone else, and plan for their children's college educations, and plan on a newer car, now and then, and "heavens!" maybe even develop a little nest egg for themselves.... without wondering if, next week, we just might decide to only give a diminished portion of our usual contribution.
In most cases, we don't even give a thought to a 401K, or medical and hospitalization insurance, or a retirement plan for him. (But, we would raise holy ______ if we didn't automatically get these things fully covered by our own job.)
This, in my opinion, is a shameful way to treat a family we should love and respect.
And the most insulting insinuation I have read here is the suggestion that a pastor and his family should hope that various families are willing to step up and make dinner for them..... and/or (by inference), grant them, periodically, some money to pay their mortgage and light bill.
That is relegating a good man and his family to the status of beggars that are at the mercy of our "kind" will at the moment.
No, no, no!!!!!! Give them the dignity of an earned and expected income that they can plan on and budget around, just like the rest of us. And a decent one, so that they can take vacations like anyone else, and plan for their children's college educations, and plan on a newer car, now and then, and "heavens!" maybe even develop a little nest egg for themselves.... without wondering if, next week, we just might decide to only give a diminished portion of our usual contribution.
In most cases, we don't even give a thought to a 401K, or medical and hospitalization insurance, or a retirement plan for him. (But, we would raise holy ______ if we didn't automatically get these things fully covered by our own job.)
This, in my opinion, is a shameful way to treat a family we should love and respect.
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K
Where are you going with all this rambling, and why are you saying things I never said ???
I never said that them selling books, CD's, and DVD's is wrong and others buying it is wrong, what I said was wrong is what they do with that money they get for selling those things if they use it for only self.
Please read all that I said before responding and saying things I never did.
The bible is very clear on the desire to become rich and to use the gospel for financial gain, and it says and shows that it is completely wrong to do so. Where do you get that Paul was self-employed making sails, he was a Pharisee before coming to Christ.
As for Peter and Matthew Jesus told them to leave their jobs and follow Him, He did not tell them to keep doing them and go around preaching the gospel.
Now with that being said I don't have a problem with a minister having a job on the side, but the role of ministry in the church was never to be taken in the job like manner. It is not an obligation nor should it be looked at as an obligation to preach the word.
Greed is sin !!!!
The bible clearly shows some have strayed from the truth of the gospel because of that greed (1 Timothy 6:10,21).
K
First please do not add to what others have said and make it out to be more then what was said.
Second the role of a pastor/minister was never to be taken in the job aspect, even when Jesus commissioned the original Apostles and disciples to go out to give the good news. He told them not to take nothing with them that they will be taken care of in those towns by those who believe, which means sheltered, feeding, clothing, and such.
When collecting money they were only to collect it to use for the needy in the next town they come to.
Nowhere does the bible say they were to receive a set salary for doing this, and even constantly warns over and over again on ministers to not get caught up in the whole greed aspect that money leads to. The responsibility of the minister who leads his church is to be an overseer of the rest of the flock.
I see more selfish attitudes in churches now days which is completely wrong and sinful as this is love of self the bible clearly showed will take place in the last days. We are called to esteem others more then self !!!
Lord Jesus said do not worry about what you will eat, or what you will wear, as He will take care of it.
We have lost focus on this in the world and have placed worldly worries and obligations before God, and that is a sad state we live in !!!
K
The point is that if they use that money to only benefit themselves and their family then that is called selfish greed, as the money that comes into a ministry is to be used to edify the whole body (congregation).
It is never to be used to benefit the pastor and his family alone.
From here we can get into a sticky road because if they are only giving a small percentage, obligation, giving for a tax break, or giving to receive the praise for it then they are giving in a wrongful manner.
The bible clearly shows how the role of ministry is to work, and those who hold these leadership roles in the church the Word of God shows how they are to do these roles. Again I do not like the word job for a minister/pastor/preacher because that then makes it into a obligation role, and nothing is to be done in obligation !!!
It is never to be used to benefit the pastor and his family alone.
From here we can get into a sticky road because if they are only giving a small percentage, obligation, giving for a tax break, or giving to receive the praise for it then they are giving in a wrongful manner.
The bible clearly shows how the role of ministry is to work, and those who hold these leadership roles in the church the Word of God shows how they are to do these roles. Again I do not like the word job for a minister/pastor/preacher because that then makes it into a obligation role, and nothing is to be done in obligation !!!
A
Yes, the Bible is clear about riches. Jesus told the rich man to give it all away. In like kind, man! Abraham had 318 warriors working for him. That doesn't include others working for him that weren't warriors. (We know Sari had a handmaiden. Hard to imagine Abraham didn't have a right hand man too.)
And then there is Job, a rich man after God's own heart. And then there is David. Another guy who acquired huge wealth. And, if that's not enough, there is Solomon, the guy who could afford 500+ wives and a zoo.
So, yes, the Bible talks a lot more about being rich then you care to admit. It's not a sin to be rich. It's a sin to not love God and others fully.
Is judging what someone else does with their money loving? If we want to use the Bible, the only thing we learned from that is the judging part goes with the loving part. Jesus told the rich guy that so he could gain something far better than his richest.
When you find a rich dude (or dudette) in that position, then talk to him/her in love, instead of slam-slam-slam-all, which, for the record is your ramble. (Or was that supposed to be love too?)
And then there is Job, a rich man after God's own heart. And then there is David. Another guy who acquired huge wealth. And, if that's not enough, there is Solomon, the guy who could afford 500+ wives and a zoo.
So, yes, the Bible talks a lot more about being rich then you care to admit. It's not a sin to be rich. It's a sin to not love God and others fully.
Is judging what someone else does with their money loving? If we want to use the Bible, the only thing we learned from that is the judging part goes with the loving part. Jesus told the rich guy that so he could gain something far better than his richest.
When you find a rich dude (or dudette) in that position, then talk to him/her in love, instead of slam-slam-slam-all, which, for the record is your ramble. (Or was that supposed to be love too?)
i don't know if i'm understanding correctly.
i know there are pastors who use their finances for loads of fancy luxuries (houses, cars, boats, etc). is this what you mean by own benefit?
or are you also referring to a pastor paying the family bills, groceries, college education, etc?
i don't mean to cause argument. i want to understand
i know there are pastors who use their finances for loads of fancy luxuries (houses, cars, boats, etc). is this what you mean by own benefit?
or are you also referring to a pastor paying the family bills, groceries, college education, etc?
i don't mean to cause argument. i want to understand
