The Law Debacle Resolved
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K
Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ puts us under God's grace.
If everybody is under God's grace already before faith in the Lord is established from hearing the word, then we would have everybody automatically saved at the cross.
That however is not what the bible says or teaches, so to put one under grace who does not believe (have faith) in the Lord Jesus would be a misconception.
Not we must study from here to see what that faith in the Lord entails with believing in Him, and we can clearly go by the words of the Lord Himself who says; Those who come to Him, hear what He says and does it are the believers in Him !!!
K
Unfortunately I have not read all the way through here to see what you said to see if the accusation sticks or not.
However speaking on behalf of myself of what I have seen from a few on here is that whenever we speak on the standards the Word of God says new covenant believers will uphold and what it clearly says if those ways are not evident in a persons life. Then others quickly jump to using we are being judgmental on others !!!
There is righteous judgment and wrongful judgment:
Wrongful judgment - is personally condemning a person for sins
Righteous judgment - is pointing out sinful behavior and helping the person to see it and overcome it
Some just don't like the fact that the bible does give us the right to show this to others, including other brothers and sisters in Christ. Jesus gives us an example of how to do this in the Church, and then Paul expounds and goes further on this by saying if they still don't give up those sinful ways they are to be shunned !!!
However speaking on behalf of myself of what I have seen from a few on here is that whenever we speak on the standards the Word of God says new covenant believers will uphold and what it clearly says if those ways are not evident in a persons life. Then others quickly jump to using we are being judgmental on others !!!
There is righteous judgment and wrongful judgment:
Wrongful judgment - is personally condemning a person for sins
Righteous judgment - is pointing out sinful behavior and helping the person to see it and overcome it
Some just don't like the fact that the bible does give us the right to show this to others, including other brothers and sisters in Christ. Jesus gives us an example of how to do this in the Church, and then Paul expounds and goes further on this by saying if they still don't give up those sinful ways they are to be shunned !!!
I go to a baptist church were all the believers are locally based.
We are active in the community, and cover a vast range of professions, ages, races, nationalities, denominational backgrounds etc. We are always looks for inspiration and ways to move forward, with a strong desire for more of God.
Large numbers of the core church go back generations, and the church has changed in character over the time I have known it. I feel privileged to know my brothers and sisters and many are much more talented than me.
We are active in the community, and cover a vast range of professions, ages, races, nationalities, denominational backgrounds etc. We are always looks for inspiration and ways to move forward, with a strong desire for more of God.
Large numbers of the core church go back generations, and the church has changed in character over the time I have known it. I feel privileged to know my brothers and sisters and many are much more talented than me.
Was Jesus under the law?
Did He teach the law?
Did you hear what Jesus taught His disciples the forty days after His resurrection?
Was it about such things as the free grace given on account of Christ's perfect obedience as the Epistles reveal; or do you assume it was the same teaching of the Law Jesus expounded to the Jews before His death and resurrection?
This is the divide I see with this law issue. On one side are those who place the emphasis on the Commands of Jesus in the Gospels of (Matt, Mark and Luke) and on the other is the emphasis on the grace revealed in the Epistles and the Gospel of John. Mine is obviously to the latter.
Did He teach the law?
Did you hear what Jesus taught His disciples the forty days after His resurrection?
Was it about such things as the free grace given on account of Christ's perfect obedience as the Epistles reveal; or do you assume it was the same teaching of the Law Jesus expounded to the Jews before His death and resurrection?
This is the divide I see with this law issue. On one side are those who place the emphasis on the Commands of Jesus in the Gospels of (Matt, Mark and Luke) and on the other is the emphasis on the grace revealed in the Epistles and the Gospel of John. Mine is obviously to the latter.
How many times I have posted this same distinction. The fact is, if we do not judge for ourselves what is right and correct, we are regarded by Jesus Christ as hypocrites. Of course judging to condemnation is never to be practiced. Unhappily, and this may be what the accusation is indicating, sometimes what is posted from understanding of the Word convicts certain people, but this is the Word and the Holy Spirit doing such. This is good, because it will lead to repentance usually. God bless all in Jesus Christ, amen.
K
Again the misconception would come from being told that Jesus was under the law therefore what He taught was only for those of the old covenant.
This is false and can completely be proven faulty by Jesus Own words, as He never said what He taught and commanded where for Jews alone. You will not find that anywhere in His teachings, but what we will find is Him telling all believers we are to observe/obey all that He commanded.
In the epistles we can find everything the Lord commanded upheld and expounded on, and even Jesus Himself told the Apostles He had more to tell them but they could not handle it yet because they were still struggling to accept what He told them so far.
The gospel of John does not teach anything different then the other gospel books, and neither do the epistles !!!
Lord Jesus teachings in the gospel books were the instructions to bring one under God's grace, and the epistles expounded on this on showing the standards and behaviors that believers in Christ will uphold.
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
Acts 16:30-31
So now they can just sit back and do nothing, grace will do the rest. No going to church, meeting together, talking, sharing, doing good works, prayer, forgiving, fasting, showing hospitality, laying on of hands. The faith is just believing, that is all.
Anything else is works and earning your salvation.
Now if you think the things above are good what are they? Believers do them, say it is part of following Jesus. Now if there is no benefit to these actions, why do them. I mean you are saved, everything that needs to be done has been done.
There are no righteous deeds to do, works, or law to keep, legalism, or discipline to exercise, being a pharisee.
You do do these things, but how do you justify it in words? I say this is working out your sanctification, going from redeemed sinner to sanctified saint.
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
Acts 16:30-31
So now they can just sit back and do nothing, grace will do the rest. No going to church, meeting together, talking, sharing, doing good works, prayer, forgiving, fasting, showing hospitality, laying on of hands. The faith is just believing, that is all.
Anything else is works and earning your salvation.
Now if you think the things above are good what are they? Believers do them, say it is part of following Jesus. Now if there is no benefit to these actions, why do them. I mean you are saved, everything that needs to be done has been done.
There are no righteous deeds to do, works, or law to keep, legalism, or discipline to exercise, being a pharisee.
You do do these things, but how do you justify it in words? I say this is working out your sanctification, going from redeemed sinner to sanctified saint.
K
Are we not all believers in Christ, thus this is the Church, as the Church is not a building made of wood, stone, brick, metal, and so on...............
The Church is the body of believers in Christ and when gathered together to discuss His word He is here among us, and gathering does not have to be just physically present in person. As we live in the computer age and are still gathered together now speaking on His word.
This has been so construed now days to where I have even seen a couple try to say that certain things don't apply here because this is not church, referring to going to a building. We are the Church and Christ is the Head of the body !!!
The Church is the body of believers in Christ and when gathered together to discuss His word He is here among us, and gathering does not have to be just physically present in person. As we live in the computer age and are still gathered together now speaking on His word.
This has been so construed now days to where I have even seen a couple try to say that certain things don't apply here because this is not church, referring to going to a building. We are the Church and Christ is the Head of the body !!!
You made my point perfectly even showing your ignorance of the Epistles and John...
Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Matthew 15:24 (KJV) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
I think I hit a nerve.
Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Matthew 15:24 (KJV) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
I think I hit a nerve.
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K
Pleases show me where in that post I stated somebodies name in my reply, as I was apply to you but did not say you were the one doing what I said there.
As what I said is that bad teaching says Paul taught differently or did away with what the Lord Jesus taught !!!
Paul did not teach another gospel then Jesus and even said we can only build on what He already taught.
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