The Law Debacle Resolved

[Billyd]

If you are employed as a welder and your employer wants a perfect bead, you telll them you are not perfect and are not even going to try, but you still expect your full wages at the end of the week. Are you going to get your full wages or the boot?

Maybe I can help you. What you seem to be describing is working for self. You are expecting a reward for your work. This is a better description of God's work through us.

Through the Grace of God, each of us with a talent. A tree fell on the side of an elderly widow's house crushing over half of her house. A group of men follow the scripture, and repair the house for her. The men neither expect nor will accept any thing in return.

What we see here are the fruits of the spirit. (I'll leave it to you to find out how many.) When we accept Christ, our life changes from that of a self directed worker to a Spirit lead servant. When that change occurs, we are no longer a slave to sin. We are servants of God. We are not looking for eternal security by what we do. We have eternal security by what Christ did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In your mind to gave these actions a name faith works. But what is the purpose of these works? Does the believers need to change, to work anything out?

Not it is not in my mind, The defenition of faith means to trust. Are you going to tell me that if I say I trust someone, yet ignore everything they say I am not a liar?

its like saying Hey mom, Yes I have faith in you. and I love you so much, Yet not once in your life did you do one thing your mother asked you to do..

How do they know when they are going off the rails?

Well lucky for them, A man by the name of james wrote a book to help them see if they are on the right track or not.

Are they hearers and not doers

Do they have real faith, or just a claimed faith (words) but their faith is dead (no actions)

 

[KennethC]

Then let's the matter be settled out of the mouth of two witnesses:

Jesus sent out these twelve, instructing them saying, “Do not go on the road to the Gentiles, and do not enter into a city of the Samaritans, but go instead to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you are going, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near!’ Matthew 10:5-7​

Again you are speaking of Jesus commissioning the Apostles to go out to bring in the lost sheep of the Jews first, and in turn you are trying to make it contradict the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19-20.

Pulling scriptures out of context to make them stand alone to prove a faulty point does His word no justice.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This here is where Jesus spoke of bringing in Gentile believers into the fold to make one flock of sheep, not two separate folds under different commands or teachings from the Lord.

 

[Magenta]

..

. .

 

[KennethC]

Matthew 28:19-20 was said after the resurrection. While he was in the flesh his mission was solely to Israel, and everything he said must be interpreted in that context.

Read post #843..............

Trying to make a scripture say what Jesus taught was only for the Jews is out of context when Jesus says latter that all believers are to observe/obey all that He commanded.

 

[ember]

Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ puts us under God's grace.

If everybody is under God's grace already before faith in the Lord is established from hearing the word, then we would have everybody automatically saved at the cross.

That however is not what the bible says or teaches, so to put one under grace who does not believe (have faith) in the Lord Jesus would be a misconception.

Not we must study from here to see what that faith in the Lord entails with believing in Him, and we can clearly go by the words of the Lord Himself who says; Those who come to Him, hear what He says and does it are the believers in Him !!!

can't you tell by my posts I do not agree with this type of teaching?

honestly? you have badly misconstrued what is being written

no one comes to salvation without the Holy Spirit drawing them

Grace is a FREE gift of God

We are saved through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ

I don't know what you're talking about

 

[VioletReigns]

You know, with each passing day I find myself more & more unplugged into the world's system and my mind being lifted above man's rationale. How easy it is becoming to simply surrender man's logic to the reality of Jesus Himself. ♥


The Proof He is Working in You
"Those of you who have been given insight and understanding, don’t get duped by the illusion that what you say can PROVE the reality within you. Instead, wisdom calls you to let your motivation speak for itself by the outworking of His goodness." (Jim Minker, Christian author)

Reason: Christ versus Everything Else
"But what of the radical differences in this world’s reasoning? I tell you, all such distinctions are immaterial. For the institutional Christian mind is hung up on outward fleshly indicators, while the rational assume their advanced knowledge will lead them into all truth. But our message - Christ crucified - is accepted by neither. For the religious mind, though attached to his name and strengthened by its established practices and doctrines, is still offended by its impotent savior. As for the scientifically enlightened mind? It only perceives him as the symbol of primitive ignorance! But to those who have heard him Christ has become something else entirely. To those rescued from religious bondage he has become the power of God; while to those who rejected him according to their higher knowledge he has become the wisdom of God!" (Jim Minker, Christian author)

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 22:36-40(NIV)

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[KennethC]

So, have you sold all, given to the poor before you started following Jesus?

Who says this has to be done only before following Jesus ???

Plus your point of selling all and giving to the poor was Jesus showing a rich man how he did not follow the commandments as he claimed. Showing that the man's trust was in his possessions and not in the Lord our God !!!

Which is why the man walked away sorrowful because he did not want to give up what he had, and notice Jesus followed it up to the disciples saying how hard it is for a rich man to get into heaven.

 

[PeterJens]

its like saying Hey mom, Yes I have faith in you. and I love you so much, Yet not once in your life did you do one thing your mother asked you to do..
Well lucky for them, A man by the name of james wrote a book to help them see if they are on the right track or not. Are they hearers and not doers
Do they have real faith, or just a claimed faith (words) but their faith is dead (no actions)

So faith => trust => reading the word => obedience to the word, doing what you are told.

So you agree we are called to obey Jesus because we have faith in Him. This you have called faith works, not earning your salvation.

So with different words you actually believe the same thing. So why all the arguing?
We are actually brothers just listening to what Jesus and apostles shared and putting it into action.

So thankyou, we are in agreement, Amen

 

[crossnote]

Read post #843..............

Trying to make a scripture say what Jesus taught was only for the Jews is out of context when Jesus says latter that all believers are to observe/obey all that He commanded.

Jesus did not teach the Gentiles. They did not come into the Church til Acts 10, He taught the Jews, they for the most part rejected His Kingdom message, the Gospel of Christ's death and resurrection became the message until He comes back for His Church.

 

[crossnote]

Who says this has to be done only before following Jesus ???

You say we are to follow all that He commanded, not me. Ask yourself.

 

[KennethC]

can't you tell by my posts I do not agree with this type of teaching?

honestly? you have badly misconstrued what is being written

no one comes to salvation without the Holy Spirit drawing them

Grace is a FREE gift of God

We are saved through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ

I don't know what you're talking about

If we put grace in a person's life before faith in Jesus is established then we have the order wrong !!!


Romans 10:17 says faith comes from hearing the word of God (established), Ephesians 2:8-9 says we are saved by grace "through this faith in Jesus", and Romans 2:7 and 1 Peter 1:9 are just a couple that shows that salvation is the promise we receive at the end of our faith.

The grace that is the free gift is God sending His Son to die on the cross for our sins, we did nothing to deserve Him doing that for us thus there is no boasting we can do to say we deserved it.

Now however when it comes to faith in Jesus the bible does say we can boast in Him (1 Corinthians 1:31, 2 Corinthians 10:17), which means we can speak on what He has done in and through us in life !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So faith => trust => reading the word => obedience to the word, doing what you are told.

So you agree we are called to obey Jesus because we have faith in Him. This you have called faith works, not earning your salvation.

So with different words you actually believe the same thing. So why all the arguing?
We are actually brothers just listening to what Jesus and apostles shared and putting it into action.

So thankyou, we are in agreement, Amen

we are only in agreement if you believe this.


1. I repent and have faith in the finsihed work of Christ, --> He saves e and gives me eternal life
2. I trust hi in an area of my life. He proves trustworthy, I trust him in other areas of my life - again he proves trustworthy
3. The more steps of faith I take, the more he proves trustworthy.
4. Because of the above, My faith may waver from time to time, but will NEVER FAE AWAY TO NOTHING (God I believe help me in my unbelief) This, my security is not in my work, not in deeds, but n Christ, Who has and wil never fail me. (I have an Abba Father

Since my faith will never fail. I will never lose salvation, My faith has set me free as Jesus says.

If you do not believe this. then no. we are not united. we are apposed. because someone claims to have faith in Christ, But in reality he does not

 

[eternally-gratefull]

..

. . View attachment 137405

AMEN, Gods love covered all of mine, Sadly it was with the blood of his son

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know, with each passing day I find myself more & more unplugged into the world's system and my mind being lifted above man's rationale. How easy it is becoming to simply surrender man's logic to the reality of Jesus Himself. ♥


The Proof He is Working in You
"Those of you who have been given insight and understanding, don’t get duped by the illusion that what you say can PROVE the reality within you. Instead, wisdom calls you to let your motivation speak for itself by the outworking of His goodness." (Jim Minker, Christian author)

Reason: Christ versus Everything Else
"But what of the radical differences in this world’s reasoning? I tell you, all such distinctions are immaterial. For the institutional Christian mind is hung up on outward fleshly indicators, while the rational assume their advanced knowledge will lead them into all truth. But our message - Christ crucified - is accepted by neither. For the religious mind, though attached to his name and strengthened by its established practices and doctrines, is still offended by its impotent savior. As for the scientifically enlightened mind? It only perceives him as the symbol of primitive ignorance! But to those who have heard him Christ has become something else entirely. To those rescued from religious bondage he has become the power of God; while to those who rejected him according to their higher knowledge he has become the wisdom of God!" (Jim Minker, Christian author)

God never fails. He is not like our human parents,,

 

[crossnote]

So faith => trust => reading the word => obedience to the word, doing what you are told.

So you agree we are called to obey Jesus because we have faith in Him. This you have called faith works, not earning your salvation.

So with different words you actually believe the same thing. So why all the arguing?
We are actually brothers just listening to what Jesus and apostles shared and putting it into action.

So thankyou, we are in agreement, Amen

We are called to Holiness, but having failed, for all have sinned...in the Gospel Christ died for those sins and offers us the FREE GIFT of eternal life through Jesus Christ. Have you received Him after seeing yourself as a hopeless siinner? Are you born again? Or am I sounding like a 'fundy'?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If we put grace in a person's life before faith in Jesus is established then we have the order wrong !!!

Wow. The phrase "before faith in Jesus is established" just reeks of works of law.

 

[KennethC]

Jesus did not teach the Gentiles. They did not come into the Church til Acts 10, He taught the Jews, they for the most part rejected His Kingdom message, the Gospel of Christ's death and resurrection became the message until He comes back for His Church.

Again Matthew 28:19-20 is for all believers Gentile and Jewish alike, as His teachings He gave to the Jewish Apostles they were to give on to Gentile believers.

Reading the epistles we can see the Apostles expounded on all that the Lord taught in the gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again Matthew 28:19-20 is for all believers Gentile and Jewish alike, as His teachings He gave to the Jewish Apostles they were to give on to Gentile believers.

Reading the epistles we can see the Apostles expounded on all that the Lord taught in the gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

So jesus said go make disciples of all nations.

He did not say go make them all follow rules and regulations.

A disciple of someone learns to be like that someone. they do not come and try to follow someone they never wanted to be like. Thats silly.

So why do you add to that?