V
Hey, I have a better one: 
[video=youtube;_O-QqC9yM28]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O-QqC9yM28[/video]
[video=youtube;_O-QqC9yM28]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O-QqC9yM28[/video]
How can God justify the ungodly and still maintain His integrity to His law?
- Thread starter Roberth
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nope. I don't talk to hands, Robbie. But I'll tell ya what, you can post all your condemnation and scriptures to back it up till kingdom come and I guarantee you that even the CC members on this site who are not Christian can see the angle you're coming from. You're a bunch of smoke. You'll say the wrong thing to the wrong person with your condemning attitude and you'll be gone before we know it. You're not here for fellowship. You're here to promote yourself.
Paul would rebuke you for misinterpreting his words and using them for supporting your self-made doctrine.
Now, when Paul says there is no one righteous, he means that there is no one who hasn't consciously sinned. He is not referring to the "flesh indwelt with iniquity." Read on, and it will become evident.
[SUP]9[/SUP]What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.[Romans 3:9]
Here's the context: Paul is addressing the prejudiced Jews. Jews believed that they were the chosen race, and hence superior to the Gentiles. Secondly, they believed in works such as circumcision.
Paul is telling them that there is no difference bet a Jew and a Gentile, since both are under the power of sin. Both are stuck in the same muck!
Now what does he mean by power of sin?
Read on:
As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
[SUP]11[/SUP]there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
[SUP]12[/SUP]All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one." 2
[SUP]13[/SUP]"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit." 3
"The poison of vipers is on their lips." 4
[SUP]14[/SUP]"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." 5
[SUP]15[/SUP]"Their feet are swift to shed blood; [Romans 3:10-15]
Now what does "All have turned away" mean?
What does "their tongues practice deceit" mean?
Even a child could understand. Turning away; practicing deceit; cursing; shedding blood,etc are conscious efforts to do what they ought not to do. That is sin.
Yes, we have inherited the "sarx" from Adam, with all its sinful desires; but we will only be charged for the wrong (sin) we do.
What I was saying: we will only be charged for the WRONG (SIN) we do
What you read : we will only be charged for the wrong (sin) we DO
Roberth, Please stick to the subject, and please do not say what I haven't said.
Yes, a sinful desire is also a sin[Mt 5:28]. No one is disputing that on this thread.
What you read : we will only be charged for the wrong (sin) we DO
Roberth, Please stick to the subject, and please do not say what I haven't said.
Yes, a sinful desire is also a sin[Mt 5:28]. No one is disputing that on this thread.
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22[/SUP] This righteousness is given through faith in 8 Jesus Christ to all who believe.[Romans 3:21]
Man cannot be righteous, no matter what he does.
Human acts of righteousness are like filthy rags to God.[Isa 64:6].
Not one of us on this thread, is disputing this..
(This does not mean that we should not do good deeds.
A believer does good deeds because he is saved, not to be saved. [Eph 2:10]
This also does not mean that faith, repentance and baptism are works. These are commanded.
This definitely does not mean that a believer cannot lose his salvation.)
However, the believer is covered by the Righteousness of God.
When God looks at a believer, he sees the Righteousness of Jesus,
for we have put on Christ[Gal 3:27]
So the "bent-to-self" human nature is hidden in Christ,
but not dead. It never died 2000 years ago with Christ(as you are saying),
for that was not the purpose of Jesus' sacrifice.
If it had died 2000 years ago, why does it pop out it's ugly head
and try to take control of believers?
When believers do not let the Spirit take control,
the old man ("bent-to-self" human nature) resurfaces.
So it's a constant fight; but the Holy Spirit assures us victory.
Therefore we must consider ourselves already seated in the heavenly realms.[Eph 2:6]
So, what was the purpose of Jesus' death?
There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,[SUP]23[/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,[SUP]24[/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.[SUP]25[/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, 9 through the shedding of his blood - to be received by faith.[Romans 3:22-25]
First read the context. It is about the Jew and Gentile, although it is applicable to us.
How is this verse applicable to us?
Because all have sinned. Do you see the intransitive verb?
This is not talking about some "condition," but a willful act (or thought).
What was the purpose of Jesus' death?
He died for our sins, as a sacrifice of atonement (propitiation).
Was Jesus innocent? No one can deny that.
Conclusion: An innocent man (Jesus) took our place, and died to atone for our sins.
This is how God can justify the ungodly (your title)
How can God justify the ungodly and still maintain the integrity of his Law?(your title)
Well, God is the Law. He is the Judge.
Let us first worry about our integrity.
I'm not saying that you are judging God with this question.
We've got to be prepared to answer arrogant unbelievers (such as Muslims), who always throw senseless questions at believers, like this one.
But we must realize that people who ask such questions are not seeking solutions.
So no answer will satisfy them.
If you expect an answer from me, please frame your question correctly,
because you are struggling to answer it yourself.
Man cannot be righteous, no matter what he does.
Human acts of righteousness are like filthy rags to God.[Isa 64:6].
Not one of us on this thread, is disputing this..
(This does not mean that we should not do good deeds.
A believer does good deeds because he is saved, not to be saved. [Eph 2:10]
This also does not mean that faith, repentance and baptism are works. These are commanded.
This definitely does not mean that a believer cannot lose his salvation.)
However, the believer is covered by the Righteousness of God.
When God looks at a believer, he sees the Righteousness of Jesus,
for we have put on Christ[Gal 3:27]
So the "bent-to-self" human nature is hidden in Christ,
but not dead. It never died 2000 years ago with Christ(as you are saying),
for that was not the purpose of Jesus' sacrifice.
If it had died 2000 years ago, why does it pop out it's ugly head
and try to take control of believers?
When believers do not let the Spirit take control,
the old man ("bent-to-self" human nature) resurfaces.
So it's a constant fight; but the Holy Spirit assures us victory.
Therefore we must consider ourselves already seated in the heavenly realms.[Eph 2:6]
So, what was the purpose of Jesus' death?
There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,[SUP]23[/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,[SUP]24[/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.[SUP]25[/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, 9 through the shedding of his blood - to be received by faith.[Romans 3:22-25]
First read the context. It is about the Jew and Gentile, although it is applicable to us.
How is this verse applicable to us?
Because all have sinned. Do you see the intransitive verb?
This is not talking about some "condition," but a willful act (or thought).
What was the purpose of Jesus' death?
He died for our sins, as a sacrifice of atonement (propitiation).
Was Jesus innocent? No one can deny that.
Conclusion: An innocent man (Jesus) took our place, and died to atone for our sins.
This is how God can justify the ungodly (your title)
How can God justify the ungodly and still maintain the integrity of his Law?(your title)
Well, God is the Law. He is the Judge.
Let us first worry about our integrity.
I'm not saying that you are judging God with this question.
We've got to be prepared to answer arrogant unbelievers (such as Muslims), who always throw senseless questions at believers, like this one.
But we must realize that people who ask such questions are not seeking solutions.
So no answer will satisfy them.
If you expect an answer from me, please frame your question correctly,
because you are struggling to answer it yourself.
V
Yeah, we wouldn't want you to get sidetracked following the rules of this site in order for you to condemn others for not agreeing with you. Your legalistic way of beating your "private interpretation" over people's heads while criticizing and belittling everyone would never be tolerated in any Bible study. If you treated people the way you do in this room, you'd be shown to the door and asked not to return.
Christian Chat Rule #2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.
We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.
Christian Chat Rule #2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.
We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.
S
what was being said is that the law can not go after some one who is not guilty of a crime. so if the son is guilty and he acted alone, the law must, and will, be satified by the conviction of the son alone. it, the law, does not recognize guilt by association. nor can it, the law, exact vengeance upon any one. the law in its purest form is absolutely deviod of emotion. ezk was talking about the context of law. the scripture is about the law,not the law breaker.This verse may help you:
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Your and my sins were transferred to Jesus so that He became sin. This is seen in the old testament where the sinner would confess sins on the head of the lamb just before taking its life. Showing that the sin of the sinner was taken from Him and put on the innocent lamb. Now according to the law this lamb stands guilty of the sins of the world though they are not his own.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Your and my sins were transferred to Jesus so that He became sin. This is seen in the old testament where the sinner would confess sins on the head of the lamb just before taking its life. Showing that the sin of the sinner was taken from Him and put on the innocent lamb. Now according to the law this lamb stands guilty of the sins of the world though they are not his own.
F
What the Law says is that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. All of the animal sacrifices we see in the OT were pointing them to One who was to come, and who for us has come, who would not just cover their sins, but take away their sins once and for all. Scripture is all about Jesus.
S
fnc, again, the law does not say that ' w/o the shedding of blood...' the 'shedding of blood' is required to satisfy the consequence of breaking the law. first crime, then punishment. "Thou shall not..." is the definition of crime(s). shedding of blood is a consequence of the crime that is defined by the law. interestingly the shedding of blood is also known as die, or death. death is the direct result of the first crime committed by humans. eve and adam ate the fruit when told not to. they believed satan, that God was a liar. yet they were not punished for anything else but the eating of the fruit. why? because the only law in existence at that time was to not eat of the tree... the believing that God was a liar merely led them to the first transgressing of the first law.
[h=1]Hebrews 9:22New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]22 [/SUP]In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.[h=1]Hebrews 9:22New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]22 [/SUP]In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
[h=1]Hebrews 9:22New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]22 [/SUP]In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.[h=1]Hebrews 9:22New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]22 [/SUP]In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
