Do you believe being gay is a choice?

[Mitspa]

I still don't see why I should see temptation as a sin. Are you honestly telling me that every time you see a beautiful woman, you're not even tempted for one second to have an impure thought? Or that you don't feel any attraction ever to a woman you know God wouldn't want you to be with (even if you then put the thought out of your mind?).

I absolutely believe I am not accountable for the fact that I am attracted to men. I am accountable for what I do with that attraction. When I run across a guy I find attractive, the devil instantly tries to tempt me to lust. That is not sin! If I then actually do lust, it is.

I think one of the issues here is you are judging someone when you have no idea what it's like to be them. When you say "which is normal by the way" about your attraction for women, you fail to understand that "normal" for me, ever since I was a first grader who enjoyed going to the mall so I could look at teen guys and having no idea why I enjoyed it, is attraction to guys. It's not God's perfect will, and it would never happen in a world that wasn't fallen, but for some reason it's a form of suffering God has allowed me to have; I have faith in Him He's allowed it for a reason.

You act like this is something I can just turn off -- it's not. You act like if I desire to obey God enough it will go away -- that has never been the case. To be free of these attractions would require a miracle from God, one He hasn't granted, at least not yet.

Believe me, if I could just switch these feelings off, I would have done so a long time ago. You have any idea how horrifying it is to be in high school, have a wet dream about one of your male friends with his shirt off, and wake up and realize there's something really wrong with you? You think I wouldn't have switched this off then if I could??? (and I was already a born-again Christian then, one of the main reasons I was so horrified, besides the fact that it wasn't exactly cool to be gay back then).

I'm not arguing homosexuality and lust aren't sins, the Bible clearly says they are. But to say that just having an unwanted attraction to men is a sin goes way too far and puts a burden on someone they were never meant to bear.

It's like saying a married man should never find any other woman attractive ever. Based on the Bible, he wouldn't be accountable for seeing a woman and realizing she's attractive -- but he would be accountable for what he did after that.

Paul says we should expect the flesh to be at war with our Spirit. As long as we're on this earth, the flesh is going to tempt us with what it wants to do. The goal is for the Spirit inside us to win more and more as life goes on, but He will never completely win until we enter eternity. Then I know my temptation to lust after men will be gone, but before then it may not happen.

Again the attraction itself needs to be addressed (its wrong)..just as if someone was attracted to children...its not normal, healthy nor is it godly. I have made what I believe are points that are biblical and sincere...Yeraza, seems to understand what im saying.. does he not understand your condition?

 

[damombomb]

Jesus laid down his life so we could be free. All you have to do is recieve it. It is called the good news

 

[Tommy2]

Again the attraction itself needs to be addressed (its wrong)..just as if someone was attracted to children...its not normal, healthy nor is it godly. I have made what I believe are points that are biblical and sincere...Yeraza, seems to understand what im saying.. does he not understand your condition?

Honestly we may just be debating semantics here and agree more than it seems. We certainly both agree the attractions are a bad thing and that it would be better if I didn't have them. I'm just not prepared to say they are sinful to have. I was raised based on the Bible to believe a sudden desire to sin is not wrong, it's what you choose to do after that that matters. I feel like you can't control what the devil tries to entice you with, but relying on Jesus you can control how you respond.

It's kind of like Joseph and Potiphar's wife. He wasn't responsible that a beautiful woman was trying her best to have sex with him, but he was responsible to flee from her seduction attempts. I feel like I'm not responsible that something wrong inside of me allows the devil to tempt me to lust after men, but I am responsible to rely on the power that resurrected Christ in order not to lust.

 

[Mitspa]

Honestly we may just be debating semantics here and agree more than it seems. We certainly both agree the attractions are a bad thing and that it would be better if I didn't have them. I'm just not prepared to say they are sinful to have. I was raised based on the Bible to believe a sudden desire to sin is not wrong, it's what you choose to do after that that matters. I feel like you can't control what the devil tries to entice you with, but relying on Jesus you can control how you respond.

It's kind of like Joseph and Potiphar's wife. He wasn't responsible that a beautiful woman was trying her best to have sex with him, but he was responsible to flee from her seduction attempts. I feel like I'm not responsible that something wrong inside of me allows the devil to tempt me to lust after men, but I am responsible to rely on the power that resurrected Christ in order not to lust.

Ok fair enough..but think of what im saying like this What if Joseph had found himself being attracted to her and trying to reason in his mind that was ok in some way? Maybe he would have failed the test when the test came. I believe he had put it in his mind long ago that he would never touch or even look at this women in a way to be attracted..when the test came...he passed

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

I strongly believe that Tommy2 is totally setting his heart on God, and not wanting anything to do with this temptation, hes just struggling with it more at this moment than he wants to. Hes definitely on the right path, though. Now that Christ has died to forgive him for his past sin, he is working to put Gods word in his mind, in order to pass the test, too

I am way happy for Tommy2, his story is way inspiring to me.

 

[ThomistColin]

no one alive has admired the beauty of a woman more than me...( which is normal by the way) if I can take captive my thoughts and fight against these desires I know are contrary to Gods Will? anyone that really desires to obey God can as well.

No, it isn't normal. Its lust. You've just tried to explain away your own sinful desire for those women and called it normal.

Now, if you say, "But I meant that I find women attractive, not that I lust after them." Then you have defeated your own argument.

God may not want us to desire our own sex. However, God has never claimed that the temptation of the flesh itself is sinful. What He has claimed to be sinful is to mull that desire, to think on it, to run it through your mind. The flesh will always tempt us. We need not fear temptation. For temptation surrounds us at all times, and none of it is sinful, unless we do not try to rebuke it.

However, Mitspa, you do not suffer this affliction. You do not understand how conniving it can be. You do not understand because you do not choose to understand. You simply call it sin and demand we stop sinning. Christ showed us a better way. To rely on Him. By relying on Christ, I have remained celibate for over 4 years now. By taking every thought captive. Do I sometimes stumble and take a second look, Yes. And I confess those moments as sinful. But when an attractive man comes near me and I notice that my flesh is attracted, I take the thought captive. I stop it at its root, which is the temptation to sin. The temptation may be sinful in the fact that my flesh wishes to deny God's law. But my flesh is not me, its not who I am. Therefore, I am guilty of no sin when tempted. I am guilty only when I give into temptation.'

 

[gkroo]

hey corkey. You are not alone. 1 1/2 years ago, I found out my then 17 year old autistic spectrum son is gay. I was crushed, heartbroken....and so was he. He struggled with this for about 2 years prior....scared to death to say anything to me for fear of hurting me and being rejected in the process. He was very depressed during that time, but I didn't know why. He did NOT choose this, but this is the hand he has been dealt. I love him dearly. I will never turn him away, and may God show him what unconditional love looks like in and through me. More than anything, my son needs the love, grace, and forgiveness of God. He can't change the fact that he's homosexual, and neither can I. I can pray though...pray that God intervenes in his life, saving him, and loving him, and changing him from the inside out...even if it takes the rest of his life. If you ever need to talk, please don't hesitate to contact me. I often feel so alone in this struggle as a Christian mother of a gay "child".

There is a lot more to the anatomy and operation of the brain than any of us know about and can control. It is doubtful that the brain originates the thought. I have had a severe head injury to the left frontal lobe of my brain and that has caused a lot of confusion. My physical body was damaged on the right side. I more or less died in the emergency room. It happened when I was 16. I am 55 now. Over the years, I have done a lot of study on the body and the brain and the mind. I could give a lecture on the frequency spectrum of our thinking and what cause the frequency to change, i.e. drugs, sorrow, happiness, events, etc.
It is written 'But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.'

Gen_1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen_5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Is God gay? Bisexual? Transvestite? Caitlyn Jenner would probably say yes. But, the real answer is no. It is all in the spectrum of vibrations that the brain actively processes. Where does Eve come in if Adam is male and female? That's really another story. It was Adam that named his wife Eve, not God. As I said, it is the frequency, the spectrum, of vibrations. Our senses can only perceive a very small range in the spectrum of frequencies. In the creation of God, all animals and fishes and plants and creeping things were created before man and they have different levels of frequencies that they can respond to. The wife of Adam was the last made on earth. But, that is another story also. The wife was also male and female. And that gets into Adam naming all the animals to find him a helpmeet or whatever you want to call it and the aftermath of eating the fruit, bla, bla, bla . . . and the spectrum changed!
The laws were brought in to stop male laying with male, female going for female, etc. It has all been written down thousands upon thousands of years ago. What changed is Jesus Christ comes in generation after generation to save those who listen to what the Spirit says. The Spirit is all spectrums. Jesus Christ is the first and the last. He is the whole spectrum, the Holy Spirit. The answer to the question 'Is being gay a choice' is not so easily answered by a simple yes or no.
After Eve gave birth to Seth in the Bible, we do not hear anything about Eve anymore. Scholars say she died in childbirth. Eve gave birth to mankind. Adam gave birth to the Savior. The Savior is Mankind. The first Adam was flesh. The second Adam is spirit. Mankind is produced by male and female. The Spirit is without father or mother, it has no lineage or genealogy. The answer to 'Is being gay a choice?' is 'I do not know.' I have battled with it for a long time. I just know that that is not my choice.
But, I do know that the opinions of others can bring about a feeling, a vibration, in your own self to cause you to attract similar vibrations causing you to become allied to certain actions of people that can be considered 'gay.' So, if I were to give an opinion, stop any thought about your son being 'gay' and treat him like a son whose vibrations can teach you so much of what you want to know. Do you know how many famous painters, musicians, inventors, scientist have 'spectrum disorders?' Do you understand what a Indigo child is? Do not feel alone anymore in your struggle, that is greedy. Your son is not gay! Find his mind.

 

[maxwel]

Is God gay? Bisexual? Transvestite? Caitlyn Jenner would probably say yes. But, the real answer is no. It is all in the spectrum of vibrations that the brain actively processes. Where does Eve come in if Adam is male and female? That's really another story. It was Adam that named his wife Eve, not God. As I said, it is the frequency, the spectrum, of vibrations. Our senses can only perceive a very small range in the spectrum of frequencies. In the creation of God, all animals and fishes and plants and creeping things were created before man and they have different levels of frequencies that they can respond to. The wife of Adam was the last made on earth. But, that is another story also. The wife was also male and female. And that gets into Adam naming all the animals to find him a helpmeet or whatever you want to call it and the aftermath of eating the fruit, bla, bla, bla . . . and the spectrum changed!

This sounds like a lot of people I've counseled...

as the mushrooms were leaving their system.

 

[Mitspa]

No, it isn't normal. Its lust. You've just tried to explain away your own sinful desire for those women and called it normal.

Now, if you say, "But I meant that I find women attractive, not that I lust after them." Then you have defeated your own argument.

God may not want us to desire our own sex. However, God has never claimed that the temptation of the flesh itself is sinful. What He has claimed to be sinful is to mull that desire, to think on it, to run it through your mind. The flesh will always tempt us. We need not fear temptation. For temptation surrounds us at all times, and none of it is sinful, unless we do not try to rebuke it.

However, Mitspa, you do not suffer this affliction. You do not understand how conniving it can be. You do not understand because you do not choose to understand. You simply call it sin and demand we stop sinning. Christ showed us a better way. To rely on Him. By relying on Christ, I have remained celibate for over 4 years now. By taking every thought captive. Do I sometimes stumble and take a second look, Yes. And I confess those moments as sinful. But when an attractive man comes near me and I notice that my flesh is attracted, I take the thought captive. I stop it at its root, which is the temptation to sin. The temptation may be sinful in the fact that my flesh wishes to deny God's law. But my flesh is not me, its not who I am. Therefore, I am guilty of no sin when tempted. I am guilty only when I give into temptation.'

What...if you give place to the devil by trying to justify in part your desires ...I think you only make room for sin...that's my point. Folks would not go along with someone thinking its ok to be attracted to children...they would say you need help and get right with God.

 

[ThomistColin]

What...if you give place to the devil by trying to justify in part your desires ...I think you only make room for sin...that's my point. Folks would not go along with someone thinking its ok to be attracted to children...they would say you need help and get right with God.

We are not saying its acceptable, nor are we justifying it. What you fail to realize is that we cannot control who our flesh is attracted to. We can turn to God and capture thoughts before they become problems. Its not like all gay people find all of their own sex attractive, just as all straight people don't find all of the opposite sex attracted. The problem lies in the flesh. Since God has not removed it yet or in this life to this point, I can only rely on Him. However, I will not sit and act like every time I think, "He's attractive" that I've somehow sinned, for I have not given into lustful or abominable desires at that moment. Instead, my first thought is always, "The Lord rebuke you, Satan." I will not live my life afraid of my own flesh, so as to go back into the closet, which is where Satan can do irreperable harm.

 

[Mitspa]

We are not saying its acceptable, nor are we justifying it. What you fail to realize is that we cannot control who our flesh is attracted to. We can turn to God and capture thoughts before they become problems. Its not like all gay people find all of their own sex attractive, just as all straight people don't find all of the opposite sex attracted. The problem lies in the flesh. Since God has not removed it yet or in this life to this point, I can only rely on Him. However, I will not sit and act like every time I think, "He's attractive" that I've somehow sinned, for I have not given into lustful or abominable desires at that moment. Instead, my first thought is always, "The Lord rebuke you, Satan." I will not live my life afraid of my own flesh, so as to go back into the closet, which is where Satan can do irreperable harm.

Im sorry I think your just wrong.. Im glad you are able to resist your lust to a degree, but the desire itself needs to be seen as a desire that can be overcome..again you ignore the logic in regards to other unacceptable attractions. If you found yourself being attracted to children...I hope you would take a more aggressive attitude about whats going on in your heart and mind to have this desire... If you keep this attitude about this sin, be sure that this sin will always be with you.

 

[GuessWho]

One last thing-you say you are fighting against desires that are contrary to God's will. So am I. So if we are both fighting sexual desires that fall outside God's plan, why is it a sin for me to have the desires while somehow it is not for you?
Matthew 7:1-2

I think the main difference between his attraction for beautiful women and your attraction for men is that, in his case, the attraction, although sinful, is a normal one. While in your case, the attraction itself is both sinful and perverted.

I am glad that in post 115, you alone admit that you asked yourself "what is wrong with me?". A good question to ask when your attraction is towards a same-sex person.

I truly believe you can find deliverance from God. But it won't happen overnight. However, honesty and knowing yourself is a very good start. Unfortunately, today's culture no longer encourage homosexuals to analyse their sexual desire. They just tell you to go along with the feelings because you were born that way and why should you change? They think they are helping you and they probably want to help you. But they turn you in the slave of a sexual desire. Don't fall in the trap no matter how nice the trap is packed!

 

[Kaycie]

God says homosexuality is a sin, no matter what you think or what you feel. God does not make someone a homosexual so that they will be born that way, any more than He makes thieves or drunkards. Why would He make you that way and then tell you not to be that way? The bible says God does not tempt us. Nature comes from God, and God says it is not natural, therefore it is not of Him. He says it is shameful for a man to dress like a woman, or for a woman to dress like a man. And that women are to have long hair, and men short hair. God clearly wants men to be masculine, and women to be feminine. There are influences that can shape a person's preferences, even from a young age. But no matter how we feel or how we are tempted, sin is sin. The bible tells us that our heart can lead us astray. It may feel right and seem right, but in the end it leads to destruction. We must follow the bible, not our feelings. No, no one is born that way, it is a choice, a preference. If I was tempted in that way (I'm not, but if I was), I simply could not act on it.

 

[ThomistColin]

Im sorry I think your just wrong.. Im glad you are able to resist your lust to a degree, but the desire itself needs to be seen as a desire that can be overcome..again you ignore the logic in regards to other unacceptable attractions. If you found yourself being attracted to children...I hope you would take a more aggressive attitude about whats going on in your heart and mind to have this desire... If you keep this attitude about this sin, be sure that this sin will always be with you.

Tell me how to stop? Because I pray, but it hasn't changed overnight. What has changed is it happens less often. The Lord is thankfully in many ways removing the desire. But I know that it still happens on occassion, and that I stumble. The Lord is good, but he hasn't given me an attraction to women. Instead, he seems to just begin to replace my attraction with a want to intimately know and help others. However, the thoughts come unbidden on occasion. I don't blame God, I don't blame myself. I blame the flesh and Satan, and ask the Lord to rebuke it.

 

[Tommy2]

God says homosexuality is a sin, no matter what you think or what you feel. God does not make someone a homosexual so that they will be born that way, any more than He makes thieves or drunkards. Why would He make you that way and then tell you not to be that way? The bible says God does not tempt us. Nature comes from God, and God says it is not natural, therefore it is not of Him. He says it is shameful for a man to dress like a woman, or for a woman to dress like a man. And that women are to have long hair, and men short hair. God clearly wants men to be masculine, and women to be feminine. There are influences that can shape a person's preferences, even from a young age. But no matter how we feel or how we are tempted, sin is sin. The bible tells us that our heart can lead us astray. It may feel right and seem right, but in the end it leads to destruction. We must follow the bible, not our feelings. No, no one is born that way, it is a choice, a preference. If I was tempted in that way (I'm not, but if I was), I simply could not act on it.

As a born again Christian and follower of Christ, let me tell you that while giving in to same-sex attractions and actually living a gay lifestyle *is* a choice, simply having same-sex attractions is absolutely *not* a choice. As a young boy I was attracted to guys before I knew there was such a thing as homosexuality- how could I have chosen something I didn't know existed?

Whether I was born that way or developed the feelings at a very young age I don't know, and frankly doesn't matter to me as much as it seems to matter to straight Christians. I do know like all of us I was born with a sinful nature.

I'm seeing too many people on here passing judgment on a condition they simply don't understand. What a Christian struggling against gay temptations needs is prayer, love, compassion, and encouragement, not judgment from folks who surely, like all of us, have their own temptations they're fighting (and - not saying this is everyone - sometimes condemn homosexuality so they can feel better about their own sins). What we especially don't need is someone who hasn't got a clue what this struggle is like discouraging us as we try to fight this in God's power.

 

[atwhatcost]

There's a mercy mission through my church that helps each other with sexual sin Through God and support, it has freed homosexuals from the mind pattern and they become heterosexual. Many get married as heterosexuals.

You sell Gof short if you don't think he can work his will in you enough.

 

[Mitspa]

Tell me how to stop? Because I pray, but it hasn't changed overnight. What has changed is it happens less often. The Lord is thankfully in many ways removing the desire. But I know that it still happens on occassion, and that I stumble. The Lord is good, but he hasn't given me an attraction to women. Instead, he seems to just begin to replace my attraction with a want to intimately know and help others. However, the thoughts come unbidden on occasion. I don't blame God, I don't blame myself. I blame the flesh and Satan, and ask the Lord to rebuke it.

It don't sound like we disagree...I respect your struggle and I would encourage you in the Lord. I hope complete deliverance comes to the point you don't identify yourself with this sin anymore. Further more I would hope that God would bring that woman into your life and that you would see that you are indeed a man (in godliness of course)

 

[Mitspa]

As a born again Christian and follower of Christ, let me tell you that while giving in to same-sex attractions and actually living a gay lifestyle *is* a choice, simply having same-sex attractions is absolutely *not* a choice. As a young boy I was attracted to guys before I knew there was such a thing as homosexuality- how could I have chosen something I didn't know existed?

Whether I was born that way or developed the feelings at a very young age I don't know, and frankly doesn't matter to me as much as it seems to matter to straight Christians. I do know like all of us I was born with a sinful nature.

I'm seeing too many people on here passing judgment on a condition they simply don't understand. What a Christian struggling against gay temptations needs is prayer, love, compassion, and encouragement, not judgment from folks who surely, like all of us, have their own temptations they're fighting (and - not saying this is everyone - sometimes condemn homosexuality so they can feel better about their own sins). What we especially don't need is someone who hasn't got a clue what this struggle is like discouraging us as we try to fight this in God's power.

Do you believe that the "Divine Nature" of God can overcome the old sin nature at some point? It sounds like you do? Look, God changed my very nature and continues that work in me... If I make excuses to allow the old man to have place in my nature, I hinder the Lords work .... If I said..."im a guy" single by the way..."ive always been attracted to girls body parts" ...I believe that would leave a door open for that sin of lust to work.. *I think when some of hear these excuses, it sounds like its a justification in some way? and to me sounds like it hinders the Lord work....

 

[hopesprings]

I admittedly did not read through this whole thread, but I'd like to say that being tempted is NOT a sin. Everyone is tempted to sin...even Jesus was tempted. Dare we say that Jesus sinned? God forbid.

 

[slave]

Sin is a being not a doing there is no lesser or greater sins to God. If one lusts in the mind as a heterosexual or a homosexual, that does not mean the homosexual is worse off than the heterosexual, because that is in line with the more natural order of things, concluding one is lesser a perversion than the other. If sin is a being and death is attached to both sins where inlays the importance in insisting on the examination of the level of death? It's pointless.

In addition it undermines the understanding that Jesus came to save sinners. How does knowing one death having a greater or lesser degree of right and wrong affect you in way of setting forth Gods purposes in loving sinners unto God? It puts a white Elephant in the room , of judgement. But Satan makes this subtle more like the mouse in the room, for It is right to judge sin wrong. The being that is... but we need to look at our own house of order and understand we are all in the same level of past death. No one has an upper hand on the other. One sin may sicken you more than another, that would be more to the point and honest, but to subject a doctrine on behalf of a greater or lesser sin value is incorrect.