Do you believe being gay is a choice?

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Nov 30, 2013
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Debating about if homosexuality is a sin or not is abomination in itself. Just read the Word of God and He says all sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
To the mother of this child, the most urgent thing you should do for your son right now is fast and pray for him. God says, call upon Him in the day of trouble and He will answer you. Open your Bible and pray through the Word and the Holy Spirit will take over and help you in how to best help your son. God says He will instruct you in the way that you should go.
You have an emergency situation on your hand.

Also, ask your son if anyone has ever raped him. You being a single parent and having to use day care or family or friends to care for your son while you worked, anything could have happened without your knowledge. Children are told to never tell because of a threat to the family or to themselves. Most that practice homosexuality have been molested as children so they become twisted in their thinking and have these urges for that kind of touch.
 
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Mitspa

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Can you please explain what you mean by "desire" a little more? I thought Jesus was talking about lust. As far back as I can remember having any sexual feelings, I've had same-sex attractions that I never asked for, never wanted, and would get rid of tomorrow if I could. Yet sometime this week I'll probably be walking down the street, look up, and see a guy I'll feel an instant attraction for. As long as I don't act on it or spend time fantasizing about it, I don't believe that is sin. Do you agree or disagree?
I believe the attraction itself is "sin" just like the attraction of a married man if he looks upon another woman to be attracted ...but I also believe that in Christ a believer is not under a legalistic standard to condemn but a standard of truth that transforms even the very heart... I don't believe you have to have this sort of attraction but maybe because you excuse it, you give it power? Having said that...if your a real believer in Christ? God is with you in your battle against this sin, He is not against you.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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Christ tells us, God is concerned about whats in your heart. What do you do when the idea that the same sex is attractive? Do you say no to the idea, and stand in Gods word, or do you agree with the idea that its attractive? Thats the difference :p The bible tells you youre being tempted. Its up to you to decide what to follow.

You'll hear alot of people who stand against Gods word use this as an argument, "we cant control what we find attractive". But we can, we can totally say no to any idea that comes into our head. If the attraction was to something more violent and horrible, wouldnt you immediately refuse it? Or like, havent you ever had the idea of wishing vengeance on someone come to your head, but knowing that its wrong, pushed the idea out of your mind? Or when looking at something you wanted, and had the idea that you could easily get away with stealing it, but realized that its a stupid thing to even consider? Why not do the same with homosexuality? Its totally possible to get to the point where saying "ew no" will become your first instinctive thought to the idea, I can say that with all honesty :p But you have to actually follow His word, and not let yourself be lead away by desire because its "pleasurable" :p Being lustful is deciding to be lustful, God wants you to say no to temptation.
 
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Mitspa

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If someone said....."oh Im attracted to children, I cant help it" I would say you better help it and better get control or your thoughts. Like Yeraza said, lots of crazy things can come into our mind but we know that we must not even entertain certain thoughts... resist the devil and he will flee from you ...is an amazing truth.
 
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Tommy2

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I guess what I'm talking about is the situation-and it happens a lot-where I don't even know the guy is coming, but I just suddenly see him and feel instant attraction. Could be a shirtless jogger suddenly running by, or someone I see on the subway. I won't pretend on here I don't take a second look oftentimes (which I agree is sin) but in those cases where I turn away and try to get it out of my mind, it's not sin, right? Wouldn't that make being tempted a sin if it is sin in that case?
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
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I guess what I'm talking about is the situation-and it happens a lot-where I don't even know the guy is coming, but I just suddenly see him and feel instant attraction. Could be a shirtless jogger suddenly running by, or someone I see on the subway. I won't pretend on here I don't take a second look oftentimes (which I agree is sin) but in those cases where I turn away and try to get it out of my mind, it's not sin, right? Wouldn't that make being tempted a sin if it is sin in that case?
That is not a sin. Keep your eyes upon the Lord. Fellowship in a church somewhere where your spirit man can be fed as much as possible. That yoke will be broken off you. Because your focus will be on things above.

Store up treasures in heaven.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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Bushido,

What is the root cause of this sexual deviation in your opinion?
I believe it's based on the sexual deviation and circumstances surrounding it. If you were a 5 year old girl who was raped repeatedly by your stepfather and you have grown up to be gay, I believe it's a mental disorder caused by trauma. If you are a married guy who goes around and sleeps with other women, with no sexually-related trauma to cause such behavior, I believe that's caused by temptation from the devil.

INB4 Mitspa, it's not PC, it's logic to look at cause/effect
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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I know the op is long gone and this thread is old but I wanted to give my two cents on the whole is being gay a choice thing. Personally I do not believe it is a choice we all are born with certain traits for better or for worse if it was a choice then that is like me choosing to be sexually attracted to a tree but does that mean I will? I tried to get myself to like the taste of peppers which I abhor I even went so far to convince myself I loved them you know mind over matter thing yet when I bit into that pepper it took all I had not to vomit.

I don't think it is a choice but it is a choice in how you deal with it, I have heard many testimonies of gay men and women who when they became saved through much trial and error and leaning on God overcame their lust and became free from their sexual desires for the same sex I have even heard of some who suddenly lost all that the moment they became saved
 
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Mitspa

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I guess what I'm talking about is the situation-and it happens a lot-where I don't even know the guy is coming, but I just suddenly see him and feel instant attraction. Could be a shirtless jogger suddenly running by, or someone I see on the subway. I won't pretend on here I don't take a second look oftentimes (which I agree is sin) but in those cases where I turn away and try to get it out of my mind, it's not sin, right? Wouldn't that make being tempted a sin if it is sin in that case?
again...what if you found yourself being attracted to children? Just think its fine or seek deliverance and learn to take captive your thoughts? The idea that we cant help who we are attracted to is just not true. It sounds to me from your post that at least in part you think its fine for you to have these desires...Maybe thats why you have them?
 
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Mitspa

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I believe it's based on the sexual deviation and circumstances surrounding it. If you were a 5 year old girl who was raped repeatedly by your stepfather and you have grown up to be gay, I believe it's a mental disorder caused by trauma. If you are a married guy who goes around and sleeps with other women, with no sexually-related trauma to cause such behavior, I believe that's caused by temptation from the devil.

INB4 Mitspa, it's not PC, it's logic to look at cause/effect
so you think all these people have been molested as children? And therefore should not be accountable in some way?
 
Jun 23, 2015
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I actually believe homosexuality is a mental disorder. For most gays, you can see them trying to take on their perceived characteristics of the opposite sex. I've hung out with a lot gays and I can say that male gays start to talk like high school cheerleaders most of the time and many butch lesbians tend to like "manly" things like sports and cars because that's what they perceive as being masculine.

I believe the reason why homosexuality isn't looked into as a mental disorder is because it "doesn't hurt" themselves or other people, unlike schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, or clinical depression. Gay people are often proud of being gay and identify themselves with the disorder, so there is no demand for research or treatment, also unlike those other disorders. Nobody is proud and happy to be clinically depressed or bi-polar.



That's just my take on it though. Could be wrong.
I believe it is a choice and I also believe that if you think you are "something" long enough;you have convinced yourself. Its a demon who comes in and steals your true identity. Many will disagree but it doesnt change the facts. We struggle not against flesh and blood but against.....
Christ can cleanse us from wrong thinking and wrong behavior through his blood and by renewing our minds through his word.

Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God... Romans 10:17
 
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Tommy2

Guest
again...what if you found yourself being attracted to children? Just think its fine or seek deliverance and learn to take captive your thoughts? The idea that we cant help who we are attracted to is just not true. It sounds to me from your post that at least in part you think its fine for you to have these desires...Maybe thats why you have them?
So if you're an ex-thief who is tempted to steal something for one moment, you've sinned? If you've had anger issues, get punched, and briefly want to retaliate before taking the thought captive, you've sinned? If you're a married man who sees a woman you feel an attraction for and quickly rely on God to dismiss, you've sinned?

If you agree with that I think you are making temptation a sin, and if you don't agree, I think you are holding those who struggle with homosexual desires to a higher standard than others who struggle with things.

And as much as we all agree that anyone who would abuse a child has done a horrifying thing, I would say the same for someone who has an unwanted attraction in that area. The sin is not in being tempted, it is in acting on it and/or not getting help.

All I know about my attraction to guys is that I had these feelings when I was very young and had no idea there was such a thing as "gay." I assume my weakness comes from the fact that we live in a fallen world. And no, I don't consider the feelings OK, but I've asked God to take them away many times and for some reason-and I trust Him He has a reason-He never has. I praise Him for the times He gives me the strength to take my thoughts captive, and I thank him for the forgiveness and grace He offers the times I fail Him.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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I believe it's based on the sexual deviation and circumstances surrounding it. If you were a 5 year old girl who was raped repeatedly by your stepfather and you have grown up to be gay, I believe it's a mental disorder caused by trauma. If you are a married guy who goes around and sleeps with other women, with no sexually-related trauma to cause such behavior, I believe that's caused by temptation from the devil.

INB4 Mitspa, it's not PC, it's logic to look at cause/effect
I believe the root cause of all sin is our fallen nature which Christ came to resurrect. We are dead therefore we sin. If all you had to do was abstaining from sinning than Christ' incarnation, sacrifice and resurrection would not have been necessary. The law of Moses would have been sufficient.
 
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Mitspa

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So if you're an ex-thief who is tempted to steal something for one moment, you've sinned? If you've had anger issues, get punched, and briefly want to retaliate before taking the thought captive, you've sinned? If you're a married man who sees a woman you feel an attraction for and quickly rely on God to dismiss, you've sinned?

If you agree with that I think you are making temptation a sin, and if you don't agree, I think you are holding those who struggle with homosexual desires to a higher standard than others who struggle with things.

And as much as we all agree that anyone who would abuse a child has done a horrifying thing, I would say the same for someone who has an unwanted attraction in that area. The sin is not in being tempted, it is in acting on it and/or not getting help.

All I know about my attraction to guys is that I had these feelings when I was very young and had no idea there was such a thing as "gay." I assume my weakness comes from the fact that we live in a fallen world. And no, I don't consider the feelings OK, but I've asked God to take them away many times and for some reason-and I trust Him He has a reason-He never has. I praise Him for the times He gives me the strength to take my thoughts captive, and I thank him for the forgiveness and grace He offers the times I fail Him.
Of course you should see it as a sin..and try to take control of your thoughts ..not try to justify those thoughts . Yes "sin" as Jesus said is in the heart ... and don't tell me about holding gays to a higher standard...no one alive has admired the beauty of a woman more than me...( which is normal by the way) if I can take captive my thoughts and fight against these desires I know are contrary to Gods Will? anyone that really desires to obey God can as well.

You say you had the desire to sin since a child...Im not sure how that makes you any less accountable than the rest of us? Again you seem to want to justify this sinful desire ..and then wonder why you have it? Im telling you in part the reason is because you accept it and justify it.
 
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Tommy2

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Of course you should see it as a sin..and try to take control of your thoughts ..not try to justify those thoughts . Yes "sin" as Jesus said is in the heart ... and don't tell me about holding gays to a higher standard...no one alive has admired the beauty of a woman more than me...( which is normal by the way) if I can take captive my thoughts and fight against these desires I know are contrary to Gods Will? anyone that really desires to obey God can as well.

You say you had the desire to sin since a child...Im not sure how that makes you any less accountable than the rest of us? Again you seem to want to justify this sinful desire ..and then wonder why you have it? Im telling you in part the reason is because you accept it and justify it.
I still don't see why I should see temptation as a sin. Are you honestly telling me that every time you see a beautiful woman, you're not even tempted for one second to have an impure thought? Or that you don't feel any attraction ever to a woman you know God wouldn't want you to be with (even if you then put the thought out of your mind?).

I absolutely believe I am not accountable for the fact that I am attracted to men. I am accountable for what I do with that attraction. When I run across a guy I find attractive, the devil instantly tries to tempt me to lust. That is not sin! If I then actually do lust, it is.

I think one of the issues here is you are judging someone when you have no idea what it's like to be them. When you say "which is normal by the way" about your attraction for women, you fail to understand that "normal" for me, ever since I was a first grader who enjoyed going to the mall so I could look at teen guys and having no idea why I enjoyed it, is attraction to guys. It's not God's perfect will, and it would never happen in a world that wasn't fallen, but for some reason it's a form of suffering God has allowed me to have; I have faith in Him He's allowed it for a reason.

You act like this is something I can just turn off -- it's not. You act like if I desire to obey God enough it will go away -- that has never been the case. To be free of these attractions would require a miracle from God, one He hasn't granted, at least not yet.

Believe me, if I could just switch these feelings off, I would have done so a long time ago. You have any idea how horrifying it is to be in high school, have a wet dream about one of your male friends with his shirt off, and wake up and realize there's something really wrong with you? You think I wouldn't have switched this off then if I could??? (and I was already a born-again Christian then, one of the main reasons I was so horrified, besides the fact that it wasn't exactly cool to be gay back then).

I'm not arguing homosexuality and lust aren't sins, the Bible clearly says they are. But to say that just having an unwanted attraction to men is a sin goes way too far and puts a burden on someone they were never meant to bear.

It's like saying a married man should never find any other woman attractive ever. Based on the Bible, he wouldn't be accountable for seeing a woman and realizing she's attractive -- but he would be accountable for what he did after that.

Paul says we should expect the flesh to be at war with our Spirit. As long as we're on this earth, the flesh is going to tempt us with what it wants to do. The goal is for the Spirit inside us to win more and more as life goes on, but He will never completely win until we enter eternity. Then I know my temptation to lust after men will be gone, but before then it may not happen.
 
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Tommy2

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One last thing-you say you are fighting against desires that are contrary to God's will. So am I. So if we are both fighting sexual desires that fall outside God's plan, why is it a sin for me to have the desires while somehow it is not for you?
Matthew 7:1-2
 
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Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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I believe it's based on the sexual deviation and circumstances surrounding it. If you were a 5 year old girl who was raped repeatedly by your stepfather and you have grown up to be gay, I believe it's a mental disorder caused by trauma. If you are a married guy who goes around and sleeps with other women, with no sexually-related trauma to cause such behavior, I believe that's caused by temptation from the devil.

INB4 Mitspa, it's not PC, it's logic to look at cause/effect

I dont agree with this at all. There are many gays who were never abused as children, and I personally know men and women who were raped as children growing up who are not gay at all whatsoever. Theres still the choice of what you do, even if you use something bad that happened to you as justification. I see this as being up there with people who are racist because someone of another race once hurt them. It IS awful that that happened to them, of course. But racism is /still/ wrong.

Coming as someone from that life, you will look for reasoning and justification. I grew up with sexist women, and I do believe that it had a bad impact on me being male growing up, but does that make my past justified? Nope, God still showed me that He hated it, and that I was the one in the wrong.


And yes, Im 100% aware of the trauma that horrible act can have on someone, but that doesnt make homosexuality right.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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Of course you should see it as a sin..and try to take control of your thoughts ..not try to justify those thoughts . Yes "sin" as Jesus said is in the heart ... and don't tell me about holding gays to a higher standard...no one alive has admired the beauty of a woman more than me...( which is normal by the way) if I can take captive my thoughts and fight against these desires I know are contrary to Gods Will? anyone that really desires to obey God can as well.

You say you had the desire to sin since a child...Im not sure how that makes you any less accountable than the rest of us? Again you seem to want to justify this sinful desire ..and then wonder why you have it? Im telling you in part the reason is because you accept it and justify it.
Mitspa makes a really good point here, he has his own personal struggles, but in all reality, he deals with the same struggle people who have dealt with homosexuality have dealt with, the struggle of sexual immorality (no offense Mitspa) I mean, anyone who has dealt with the lustful desire of someone of the opposite gender when knowing it was wrong, knows what this is like. It is only the temptation for sexual immorality.


And a big part of fighting temptation is your outlook, I do believe we should not allow ourselves to believe we are "attracted" to something that we shouldnt be. But by this, I just mean change your way of thinking, not never be tempted again :p Like most of us, I have fallen into the sin when wanting to fight it too. But I do believe that allowing yourself to consider finding someone "attractive" is only setting yourself up to fail.


But I know that its not an easy battle. We should work on changing the way we see things, when the idea comes into your head, I hate to be lewd here, but really /think/ about what it is, I mean really. It does help you understand why God really hates it, and refuses to accept it. And it helps you become more and more unattracted to the idea :p When your head becomes filled with the desire, battle it with thoughts about /why/ its wrong, and focus on that while reaching out to God :p
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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I still don't see why I should see temptation as a sin. Are you honestly telling me that every time you see a beautiful woman, you're not even tempted for one second to have an impure thought? Or that you don't feel any attraction ever to a woman you know God wouldn't want you to be with (even if you then put the thought out of your mind?).

I absolutely believe I am not accountable for the fact that I am attracted to men. I am accountable for what I do with that attraction. When I run across a guy I find attractive, the devil instantly tries to tempt me to lust. That is not sin! If I then actually do lust, it is.

I think one of the issues here is you are judging someone when you have no idea what it's like to be them. When you say "which is normal by the way" about your attraction for women, you fail to understand that "normal" for me, ever since I was a first grader who enjoyed going to the mall so I could look at teen guys and having no idea why I enjoyed it, is attraction to guys. It's not God's perfect will, and it would never happen in a world that wasn't fallen, but for some reason it's a form of suffering God has allowed me to have; I have faith in Him He's allowed it for a reason.

You act like this is something I can just turn off -- it's not. You act like if I desire to obey God enough it will go away -- that has never been the case. To be free of these attractions would require a miracle from God, one He hasn't granted, at least not yet.

Believe me, if I could just switch these feelings off, I would have done so a long time ago. You have any idea how horrifying it is to be in high school, have a wet dream about one of your male friends with his shirt off, and wake up and realize there's something really wrong with you? You think I wouldn't have switched this off then if I could??? (and I was already a born-again Christian then, one of the main reasons I was so horrified, besides the fact that it wasn't exactly cool to be gay back then).

I'm not arguing homosexuality and lust aren't sins, the Bible clearly says they are. But to say that just having an unwanted attraction to men is a sin goes way too far and puts a burden on someone they were never meant to bear.

It's like saying a married man should never find any other woman attractive ever. Based on the Bible, he wouldn't be accountable for seeing a woman and realizing she's attractive -- but he would be accountable for what he did after that.

Paul says we should expect the flesh to be at war with our Spirit. As long as we're on this earth, the flesh is going to tempt us with what it wants to do. The goal is for the Spirit inside us to win more and more as life goes on, but He will never completely win until we enter eternity. Then I know my temptation to lust after men will be gone, but before then it may not happen.

I think you just misunderstand Mitspa, hes not your enemy :p I also worry about claiming that you are attracted to the same sex, too. Because it is a mindset, and I really want you to change your mindset. And yeah, youll still be tempted, but we dont mean never be tempted, we mean just change how you think about it. You are claiming to be attracted to the same sex, Christ tells us that if your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. We dont /really/ want you to pluck out your eyes :p We just want you to consider this in a different way :p When that idea comes into you, dont look at it as "well Im attracted to this, I cant help it", think about it more like "ugh, what a horrible idea, I want nothing to do with it", I know that seems really too simple, but it really is the best way to do it that I have found :p God is watching your heart, and He knows your every thought. I also worry, like Mitspa, that you telling yourself that you like this, is a big part of your problem. It can be helped, not the being tempted, but what you think of it yourself. And the bible says that the flesh is Gods enemy, definitely. But we are also told that we do NOT wrestle against the flesh, but with the powers of the dark earth, and evil in the spiritual realm. I often think about this with my own struggles, the world is ALWAYS telling us that EVERYTHING we do (and I literally do mean everything, from over eating to being rebellious and defiant) is all due to our genes. The genes in our brain make us do everything. we are not responsible for anything we do, its all our genes. I think this is the wrestling with the powers of the earth part :p The flesh can be used to lead you away from God, but it is not your flesh that is forcing you to sin. We fall away to seductive spirits and demonic doctrines. I can promise you that there is a spiritual influence in your own battle now. And one thing I like to do when struggling is consider it just that, and reach out to God for help.

But yeah, I do believe there is a difference between being tempted, and believing that you are in fact attracted to something you arent, and I think a change of your way of thinking would really help you :3
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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One last thing-you say you are fighting against desires that are contrary to God's will. So am I. So if we are both fighting sexual desires that fall outside God's plan, why is it a sin for me to have the desires while somehow it is not for you?
Matthew 7:1-2

He didnt say that being tempted is evil, Mitspa said that he knows being lustful is a sin, so he chooses to not be lustful. I agree with the idea, its not that you are tempted thats wrong, but that you tell yourself that its attractive. I agree with the mind set argument.