I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

[jaybird88]

Here is a lady asking ASKACATHOLIC a very reasonable question about mass cards: Prepare yourselves my dear brothers and sisters in Christ. The answer given is incredibly disturbing, but WE MUST know what these people believe so that this nonsense of thinking catholicism is just another Christian denomination is terribly wrong. Yes, I'm sure, like PoetMary here, there may be catholics who are saved through trusting in Jesus ALONE, the VAST majority of catholics don't believe that.


It IS disturbing! But not only did I attend 8 yrs at st. rose of lima, where this stuff was taught, but most of my VERY large family remains catholic and BUYS these mass cards all the time! Research it yourself. But please understand this is but ONE very destructive doctrine taught by catholics.

a big chunk of my family is Italian, my girlfriends family (huge family) are catholic. so i have dealt with it most of my life. the funny little dogmas you are referring to are not taken seriously and many times not taught at all. i talk to catholics all the time. the ones that are devoted to serving our Lord are no different than i am. the ones not devoted, are no different than the ones i go to church with that are only there to be seen.

st.rose of lima? Peru?

 

[jaybird88]

Not at all condoning what greedy Christian preachers have done, and some continue to do, but surely you can see a difference with people giving money to someone who they think is going to do the Lord's work through ministries and spreading the Gospel, with people giving money to SAVE or lessen time for loved ones sins committed in Purgatory?

i see your point. and its a good point. but in my opinion i honesty see no difference. both corrupt leaders are just as damaging. how many ran from Christianity because of the jim and tammy scandal. how many killed themselves when brainwashed by jim jones, like 600. many of those were little kids. jim jones was a non catholic.
my point is there will always be corrupt leaders in all belief systems. those seeking the Lord will always see through it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Not at all condoning what greedy Christian preachers have done, and some continue to do, but surely you can see a difference with people giving money to someone who they think is going to do the Lord's work through ministries and spreading the Gospel, with people giving money to SAVE or lessen time for loved ones sins committed in Purgatory?

Hi PennEd,

First of all, according to the RCC's teaching regarding Purgatory, it is supposed to be a place where people go to be purged or refined by fire for the sins that were not dealt with in life. Therefore, that being the case, how could paying for masses shorten their time in purgatory seeing that the sin still has to be purged. What are they doing, speeding up the process of refining every time a mass is performed? Besides the Scriptural problems with Purgatory, that is, there not being any, it in itself doesn't make any sense. On the same note, I am rereading Dave Hunts: "A Woman Rides the Beast" and below is an excerpt from it:

"As Catholics we have the papacy, a history of popes from Peter to John Paul II ... we have the rock upon which Christ did build His Church. As Catholics--now I love this one--we have purgatory. Thank God! I'm one of those people who would never get to the Beatific Vision without it. It's the only way to go ... So as Catholics... or job is to use this remaining decade evangelizing everyone we can into the Catholic Church, into the body of Christ and into the third millennium of Catholic history." By Fr. Tom Forrest to a group of Catholic charismatics.

 

[epostle]

My 10 questions:
I watched the video on the sacrament of penance(man made terminology).
The narrator uses verses such as 1 Cor 12:12 out of context.
1 Corinthians 12 is about unity in the church, and not about confession at all.

We are one body. If one member hurts, we all hurt. If one is happy, we are all happy. Sin affects the one body the same way. The video makes this quite clear.

I wish the narrator would use actual verses pertaining to confession instead. [1 john 1:9, James 5:16]
The verses in the Bible pertaining to confession do not talk about a priest at all.

James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

All these man made concepts do not not make any difference to the average catholic, as they do not know their bibles, and believe just anything they are told.

Well, if you are going to compare the best Protestant with the worst Catholic, are you being fair?

Dear Catholics brothers and sisters,
Please point out where the Bible talks about the following:
1)We must confess our sins to a priest.

Num. 5:7 - this shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution.


Neh. 9:2-3 - the Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other.


John 20:22 - the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.


John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.


Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

2) We must have a priest

This priesthood is identical with the office of elder. In fact, the term “priest” is simply a shortened, English version of the Greek word for “elder” — presbuteros — as any dictionary will confirm. This is any some Old Catholic translations render the word as “priests” where Protestant Bibles have “elder.” For example, in the Douay-Rheims Bible (the Catholic equivalent of the King James Version) we read:

“For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou shouldst set in order the things that are wanting, and shouldst ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee” (Titus 1:5

).


We also see in the New Testament that the functions of the Old Testament elder — who served in the synagogue — have been fused with the functions of the Old Testament priest — whose served in the temple.
We can see the fusion of the two concepts in Romans 15:15-16

. In the New International Version of this passage, we read:

“I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty[literally, "the priestly work"] of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.”
​

Paul tells us that because he has been given a calling as a professional minister of Christ, he has a priestly work of preaching the gospel so that the Gentiles may be an offering — a sacrifice to God. This is not something only he has. Every elder in every church has that same “priestly work” of preaching the gospel. So Paul here conceives of the office of the New Testament minister as a priestly office. Notice that the hearers of the gospel in this passage are not depicted as priests, but as the sacrifice to God. Paul draws a distinction between himself and his work of preaching the gospel, and his readers and their duty of hearing it. It is the minister, not the congregation, who is here pictured as priest. read more here
​

3)The Mystical Body of Christ

The most striking words with regards to the doctrine of the Mystical body can be found in the book of Acts as we read (Acts 9:1-5) "But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. Now as he journeyed he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed about him. And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting..."
We note that Christ said to Saul, that he (Saul) was actually guilty of persecuting Christ Himself, since to persecute the Church is to persecute Christ as the Church is indeed his mystical body. If one-steps on your foot does not your mouth cry out? In like manner is it with Christ and his Church. We are his members, who with the angels and saints of heaven make us the mystical body of Christ. As St. Paul put " "For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ." - 1 Cor 12:12-14
In Sacred Scripture we find a great number of metaphors are employed precisely in order to affirm and clarify this doctrine of the Mystical body in order allow us to obtain a greater insight into both the nature and meaning of the Church and the implication it ought to have on us. read more here

4) Penance reconciles us to God and to the community

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ifI throw a rock through your window I have committed a sin. I canbecome sorry for my sin and go to Confession and be absolved of thatsin. Jesus paid the price for my sin. But......... the window isSTILL broken. The broken window is the "consequence" of mysin and it still needs to be repaired. The Cross does not repair thewindow, that is my responsibility. Courts call it restitution. We call it penance.
[/FONT]

5) A priest is an intermediary of God's grace[/QUOTE]
So are you when you pray for someone.

6) A priest is a representative of the people of God

The priest is the primary celebrant at Mass, and everybody else is a co-celebrant. We are participants, not spectators.

7) Mortal sins

1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - there is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness.

8) have to be in communion with the community in order to receive communion otherwise you cannot receive communion

Yes that is what communion means. Actually, you have to be in communion with the Church in order to receive communion. This is primarily for the protection of those not in communion with the Church for this reason: partaking unworthily could make you sick. 1 Cor. 11:30 - this verse alludes to the consequences of receiving the Eucharist unworthily. Receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus in mortal sin results in actual physical consequences to our bodies.
1 Cor. 11:27-30 - thus, if we partake of the Eucharist unworthily, we are guilty of literally murdering the body of Christ, and risking physical consequences to our bodies. This is overwhelming evidence for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. These are unjust penalties if the Eucharist is just a symbol.

9) not confessing hurts the mystical body of Christ
10) lesser sins need not be confessed, only the bigger ones must be confessed
All the above concepts are talked about in the video.
I would like to believe that all this is true.
I request you defend your faith, in love, and not by getting angry and personal,

Most of these questions were answered in the video I posted. Confession of sins to a priest is for Catholics after they have been instructed (which takes from Sept. to Easter). It takes time to learn and prepare, its not something you just jump into. It's not the soul and summit of the Catholic faith, the Eucharist is.

resources
Scripture Catholic - SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS OF SINS

Scripture Catholic - THE EUCHARIST

 

[GaryA]

I only know the scriptures say God is love and truth can only come from a pure and loving heart

Show me book, chapter, and verse - where it says that "truth can only come from a pure and loving heart"...

but to say truth is above love is incorrect because truth cannot exist without love

Yes it can - and it does...

However, I say this with very fine-line semantics.

Of course, the two exist together -- for, they both originate with God.

Truth is above all things. Period. Otherwise, God is not God.

Without truth, there cannot be love...

You have it backwards.

 

[Goodness11]

Isaiah 54:13-17
And all the children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.


Lord give me strength and words of wisdom, defending Jesus. Why I will never tolerate the Catholic faith. These are statements of truth and can be found easily in our history.

Being Canadian has a very short history. It's not an ancient country; yet it's full of diverse stories of perseverance and prosperity to man. But there's also a dark side; that I will never fully understand or condone. Jesus would never condone.
There's an island called Haida Gwaii; my cousins are half Haida and it a majestic place full of joyous people! By boat you can tour an old Haida village sights like K'uuna, just lush nature and old totems. In amongst the forest are abandoned graves, and the sad story was the Haida people had to conform to Catholicism and change their names to Catholic names, or they would not receive missionary help while ailing. The people suffered enormous loses from TB and Small Pox; 95% of their population died.

View attachment 138305

Also so within our history is the Catholic Churches established schools within Canada, and also took native children from their families. Sometimes when a child would die, the parents weren't even told so there's unmarked graves with just a number. Most children were malnourished, beaten, treated like dogs, and some repeatedly molested. Everyone knew, but no one did anything. Everyone just conceded and accepted it. Did Jesus treat children like this?? Is this the path of God? In the 1940-1950's they experimented on the native children on how malnourishment affected their learning. The Catholic church has never apologized; but called that time in history sorrowful.

View attachment 138306

Astoundingly this has also happened in the States of children being molested, and the perpetrator is not only moved to inflict more pain; but protected. It even has a Wiki Page of their corruption.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases

I have children. They are the greatest gifts God has ever bestowed upon me to guard and protect. These precious defenceless souls! How could Jesus ever tie Himself to the Catholic faith; when that Catholic faith has failed repeatedly to protect those innocent children and hide those wicked people behind their robes of justice! How could a rational person given the choice to follow this faith condone those actions, and be associated and painted with the same brush?

When you come to Jesus one day and He asks you; "Why did you stay in the Catholic faith, when you had the opportunity to follow my word and go somewhere else?" I just don't want to be that person that has nothing to say. If you're going to church for God, then blessings be upon you where-ever you go; but if you are going for the people then you just may have lost your way.

I hold zero hatred for any person of Catholic faith. Maybe these will give you some thoughts? I LOVE Jesus; He stood against the immoral travesties of this world!! Jesus calls His people to have the highest standard possible!! To walk with Jesus in His glory, may He bless us all <3


1 John 5:17-21
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Epostle; you yourself are a fellow Canadian. You obviously know or are related to native people or possibly may be one yourself? So question because you are probably vast on history; nobody in there right mind would call themselves Nazis due to the Holocaust with the murdering of millions. So why knowing these truths of native children maliciously killed due to starvation or neglect; do you call yourself Catholic? You may forgive those people's actions; but the church have never apologized but tried to cover up the brutality and sexual sins. Is this the example of a faith you want to follow?

 

[Goodness11]

That's either a yes, no or maybe answer. Funny how you were discussing confessions; and in history they proved confessions did nothing to change their actions.

 

[GuessWho]

but the church have never apologized but tried to cover up the brutality and sexual sins. Is this the example of a faith you want to follow?

Actually, the Catholic Church did apologize trough Pope John Paul II (an amazing man) for the wrongs and sins of the Church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

We aren't called to bash we are called to love

This is something that kinda bothers me. Disagreeing does not equal hate, nor does is it bashing. I would not encourage someone to do something I know is wrong. Am I really hateful for this?

If someones defense on their doctrine is "youre a bigot for saying its wrong", that means they probly dont have a real good argument. If people dont like the fact that others disagree with them, then maybe they should hide from the world more often.
I cant remember a time when Christ responded with the pharisees that argued with Him with "you guys are bigots, you should learn to love". You need to have a real argument if you are gonna debate.



And I figured I could share my experiences about my first time at a catholic service today
So, the entire two hours we were there, they literally read 3 verses from the bible. Other then that, the whole time they sang some songs, half of them in English, performed many rituals of filling golden cups, praying with the cup, then covering the cup with a green cloth with a cross on it (this took much longer than you can imagine), lighting the thing with the incense and walking around the alter with it, then moving it to the congregation, slowly putting their books away, repeating the same sayings and prayers over and over, and praying the Christ, Mary and the catholic saints, and even talked about praying to the angels. They called the pope the "heavenly father", and Im not lying, they literally used that term and the current popes name. Then they finished with a song, and everyone left. No one said hello or welcome to us, or introduced themselves to us, and no one talked at the beginning or end. There was no clear lesson, and I realized, if you were wanting to bring someone to Christ who had not yet come to know Him, this would have been the worse place to do it. They should come to church feeling inspired, learning something about Him, and seeing who He is, but this church, it was nothing but repetition and being quiet while watching them perform rituals, nothing was inspired at all. It was all very weird. Is this common with catholic churches?

 

[PennEd]

a big chunk of my family is Italian, my girlfriends family (huge family) are catholic. so i have dealt with it most of my life. the funny little dogmas you are referring to are not taken seriously and many times not taught at all. i talk to catholics all the time. the ones that are devoted to serving our Lord are no different than i am. the ones not devoted, are no different than the ones i go to church with that are only there to be seen.

st.rose of lima? Peru?

I guess the "saint" originated in peru, but my school is in N.J.

a big chunk of my family is Italian, my girlfriends family (huge family) are catholic. so i have dealt with it most of my life. the funny little dogmas you are referring to are not taken seriously and many times not taught at all. i talk to catholics all the time. the ones that are devoted to serving our Lord are no different than i am. the ones not devoted, are no different than the ones i go to church with that are only there to be seen.

st.rose of lima? Peru?

I'm not sure why you're bringing up Jim Jones and other false teachers. My mother use to say to us kids "2 wrongs don't make a right". I'm in no way defending those guys. Not only is my very large irish family still mostly catholic but my wife was born in Italy and moved here when she was four. I can tell you her family is still all catholic. We can't even talk to her sister about the fact that Mary DID NOT remain a virgin after Jesus' birth.

But aside from all that, I'm not talking about misbehaving priests or ministers, I'm talking about established, doctrinal, satanic, doctrines. And I'm telling you I still get calls from my family asking to chip in for mass cards upon someone's death. Some still go to a priest for confessions, then told to say a number of hail Mary's and our Father's to "absolve" them of the sins they just confessed to.

 

[Mec99]

We DO have the Full Truth Blain!

The reason YOU cannot see nor understand the Full Truth Blain is because you do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

1 John 2:26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP] I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

The anointing we have received IS the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit teaches us the FULL TRUTH.

You are trying to deceive us Blain into believing the lie of Satan that we cannot have the Full Truth!

Romans 1:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

The wrath of God is on all those who suppress the Truth Blain, and that includes you.

You are only hurting yourself Blain when you teach the lies of Satan.

We CAN know the Full Truth!

Ephesians 6:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,

1 Timothy 2:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP] who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1 John 4:6
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

By refusing to listen to what the Holy Spirit says Blain we do know then that you are a spirit of error.

 

[Goodness11]

Actually, the Catholic Church did apologize trough Pope John Paul II (an amazing man) for the wrongs and sins of the Church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II

Sorry that is incorrect; but no they have not apologized for the Canadian influence upon Catholic native schools. Here's a very recent article.

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...pologize-for-aboriginal-abuse-tim-harper.html

They were begging Stephen Harper, our previous Prime Minister to plead with Pope Francis to apologize for the surmountable abuses against the children.

 

[GuessWho]

So, the entire two hours we were there, they literally read 3 verses from the bible. Other then that, the whole time they sang some songs, half of them in English, performed many rituals of filling golden cups, praying with the cup, then covering the cup with a green cloth with a cross on it (this took much longer than you can imagine), lighting the thing with the incense and walking around the alter with it, then moving it to the congregation, slowly putting their books away, repeating the same sayings and prayers over and over, and praying the Christ, Mary and the catholic saints, and even talked about praying to the angels. They called the pope the "heavenly father", and Im not lying, they literally used that term and the current popes name. Then they finished with a song, and everyone left. No one said hello or welcome to us, or introduced themselves to us, and no one talked at the beginning or end. There was no clear lesson, and I realized, if you were wanting to bring someone to Christ who had not yet come to know Him, this would have been the worse place to do it. They should come to church feeling inspired, learning something about Him, and seeing who He is, but this church, it was nothing but repetition and being quiet while watching them perform rituals, nothing was inspired at all. It was all very weird. Is this common with catholic churches?

It's still better than the jokers who yell at microphones in expensive suits.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Ephesians 6:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,

I agree with this, we find the truth when we learn Gods word, and we should definitely be adamant about standing firm in it no matter what. If there is no argument in the bible to defend something someone claims, then it should be ignored.

 

[fordman]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ActuallyHe did not. He spoke to them as 'YOU', which means not a church butthose assembled at His appearing. The church is not a 'thing'. It isall the people who truly believe in Jesus Christ for salvationregardless of denomination..

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ohyes, I almost forgot Pops you adhere to the idea "the Church isnot needed" or the Church is "invisable" or "theChurch is not an institution, its the "Body of Believers.Notonly are these ideas [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]unbiblicalOl'Timer....they are dangerous . They contradict the Holy Scripturesand are groundless in Holy Writ. These ideas are but a few hundredyears old and are impossible for the Apostles to have taught. JesusHimself said his Church would be "the light of the world."He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid"(Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. Itmust have characteristics that clearly identify it and thatdistinguish it from other organizations. Jesus promised, "I willbuild my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it"(Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed andwill never fall away from him. His Church will survive until hisreturn. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Itis the Church the Holy Bible calls: "The church of the livingGod, the pillar and foundation of truth" 1 Tim 3:15. And theChurch Our Lord promised to be with "until the end of the world"Matt 28:20.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Irelize you have a difficult believing of the all the Christianchurches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time ofChrist. (I'll address this later) Every other Christian church is anoffshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches brokeaway from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches wereestablished during the Reformation, which began with Martin Luther in1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshootsof the original Protestant offshoots, or offshoots of offshoots.)Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifthcentury, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrinesgiven by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Ifby apostate you mean the Roman Catholic church formed in 8th centuryAD then He was certainly not with that church, although havingdealings with those minority in it who truly believed.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lol....well lets see Pops. I know you believe this, for somewhere in yourposts I remember you saying this is what your beloved “EncyclopedaBritannica” told you. Lets see what else they had say. You do agreethe Papacy is Catholic do you not? Well.......from your very own“Encyclopedia Britannica”[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] “The history of the papacy can be divided into five major periods:the early papacy, from Peter through Pelagius II (until 590); themedieval papacy, from Gregory I through [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]BonifaceVIII[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](590–1303); the Renaissance and Reformation papacy, from BenedictXI through Pius IV (1303–1565); the early modern papacy, from PiusV through Clement XIV (1566–1774); and the modern papacy, from PiusVI (1775–99).” ([/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]www.britannica.com/topic/papacy[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif])[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

You are a liar. You cannot name ONE person in the first two centurieswho believed in the assumption and immaculate conception andsinlessness of Mary. Nor can you name one person in those centurieswho belonged to a church which had sacerdotal priests. There were ofcourse some heretics who believed that works were a necessary part ofsalvation.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lol....Andyou are an old uniformed Limey![/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif]TheEarly Church Fathers referred to Mary as the second Eve. Where thefirst Eve was disobedient by sinning the second Eve (Mary) wasobedient by not sinning. This is the natural conclusion to Genesis3:15 where God says that He would put enmity between Satan and thewoman (Mary). If Mary were to sin there would be no enmity or[/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif]complete[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]separation between her and S[/FONT][FONT=Arial, serif]atan.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Fathers[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of the Church taught that Mary received a number of distinctiveblessings in order to make her a more fitting mother for Christ andthe prototypical Christian (follower of Christ). These blessingsincluded her role as the New Eve (corresponding to Christ’s role asthe New Adam), her Immaculate Conception, her spiritual motherhood ofall Christians, and her Assumption into heaven. These gifts weregiven to her by God’s grace. She did not earn them, but shepossessed them nonetheless. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
The key to understanding all these graces is Mary’s role as the NewEve, which the Fathers proclaimed so forcefully. Because she is theNew Eve, she, like the New Adam, was born immaculate, just as theFirst Adam and Eve were created immaculate. Because she is the NewEve, she is mother of the New Humanity (Christians), just as thefirst Eve was the mother of humanity. And, because she is the NewEve, she shares the fate of the New Adam. Whereas the First Adam andEve died and went to dust, the New Adam and Eve were lifted upphysically into heaven. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Of particular interest in the following quotations from the Fathers arethose that speak of Mary’s immaculate nature. We will all one daybe rendered immaculate (sinless), but Mary, as the prototypicalChristian, received this grace early. God granted her freedom fromsin to make her a fitting mother for his Son. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Evenbefore the terms "original sin" and "immaculateconception" had been defined, early passages imply the[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]doctrines[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].Many works mention that Mary gave birth to Jesus without pain. Butpain in childbearing is part of the penalty of original sin (Gen.3:16). Thus, Mary could not have been under that penalty. By God’sgrace, she was immaculate [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]inanticipation of[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]her Son’s redemptive death on the cross. The Church thereforedescribes Mary as "the most excellent fruit of redemption"(CCC 508). [/FONT]
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TheAscension of Isaiah: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"Thereport concerning the child was noised abroad in Bethlehem. Somesaid, ‘The Virgin Mary has given birth before she was married twomonths.’ And many said, ‘She has not given birth; the midwife hasnot gone up to her, and we heard no cries of pain’" ([/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ascensionof Isaiah[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11 [A.D. 70]). [/FONT]
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TheOdes of Solomon:[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"Sothe Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored andbore the Son, but without pain, because it did not occur withoutpurpose. And she did not seek a midwife, because he caused her togive life. She bore as a strong man, with will . . . " ([/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Odesof Solomon [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]19[A.D. 80]). [/FONT]
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JustinMartyr: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"[Jesus]became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken bydisobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent mightbe also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virginand undefiled, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]conceived[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But theVirgin Mary received faith and joy when the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]angelGabriel[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord wouldcome upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her,for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God.And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke1:38]" ([/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dialoguewith Trypho the Jew [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]100[A.D. 155]). [/FONT]
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Irenaeus:[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"Consequently,then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, OLord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.’ Eve,however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey.Just as she, who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for ahusband—for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed;for, having been created only a short time, they had no understandingof the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they firstcome to maturity before beginning to multiply—having becomedisobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for thewhole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but neverthelessstill a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation forherself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’sdisobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Evehad bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith"([/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]AgainstHeresies [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3:22:24[A.D. 189]). [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"TheLord then was manifestly coming to his own things, and was sustainingthem by means of that creation that is supported by himself. He wasmaking a recapitulation of that disobedience that had occurred inconnection with a tree, through the obedience that was upon a tree[i.e., the cross]. Furthermore, the original deception was to be doneaway with—the deception by which that virgin Eve (who was alreadyespoused to a man) was unhappily misled. That this was to beoverturned was happily announced through means of the truth by theangel to the Virgin Mary (who was also [espoused] to a man). . . . Soif Eve disobeyed God, yet Mary was persuaded to be obedient to God.In this way, the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virginEve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by meansof a virgin, so it is rescued by a virgin. Virginal disobedience hasbeen balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in thesame way, the sin of the first created man received amendment by thecorrection of the First-Begotten" (ibid., 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, serif]ToName a few.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ifyou mean the Roman Catholic church we rightly accuse it of being afalse church with false views and false claims, that is not to denythat there are a small minority of true Christians in the RomanCatholic church.

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ofcourse this is your personal opinion, for which you can guarantee itto be absolute, and without error. {rolling eyes} [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Cont.[/FONT]

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

It's still better than the jokers who yell at microphones in expensive suits.

Oh, there are definitely bad eggs everywhere, I would agree with not supporting those preachers. In fact, in my town we had one who claimed "God wanted him to buy a new Mercedes, and that He wanted His church to buy it for him", and sadly it worked, they pulled together the money to buy his fancy car :/

But I will definitely take a church that preaches His word over what I went to today anytime

 

[GuessWho]

Sorry that is incorrect; but no they have not apologized for the Canadian influence upon Catholic native schools. Here's a very recent article.

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...pologize-for-aboriginal-abuse-tim-harper.html

They were begging Stephen Harper, our previous Prime Minister to plead with Pope Francis to apologize for the surmountable abuses against the children.

Pope John Paul II apologized for the cases of sexual abuse on children, too.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Pope John Paul II apologized for the cases of sexual abuse on children, too.

This is something that bothers me, I know an atheist whos defense of Christianity being evil is that priests have committed child molestation. I kinda wanna point out to him that many pedophiles have been atheist as well.

Not totally on topic, but to hate God because of this, its a pretty small argument.

 

[GuessWho]

But I will definitely take a church that preaches His word over what I went to today anytime

There is no such thing as a Catholic Mass without the gospel being read.

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, the liturgy is even longer than the Catholic Mass. And that is why I like it, actually. When you go to meet with God you are not supposed to check from 5 to 5 minutes your watch because you want to catch your favorite TV show. There are protestant churches who canceled their meeting because they wanted to see the Super Bowl.

 

[Goodness11]

Pope John Paul II apologized for the cases of sexual abuse on children, too.

Well isn't that inspirational that the Catholic Church have to apologize to a multitude of countries for desecrating children. Lovely!
Canada is still waiting.