Israel... or not?
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That 2 Chronicles 11 Scripture shows the Levites leaving the northern 'kingdom of Israel' to associate with the 'kingdom of Judah' in the south, because of Jeroboam, king of the northern kingdom preventing them from doing their priest duties. SOME among the ten northern tribed kingdom also decided to go south and join with Judah and Benjamin as those Levites did.
That did NOT mean all the peoples of the ten northern tribes did that, for God's Word has much to say after that event where both kingdoms had war against each other. So you left that truth out.
That did NOT mean all the peoples of the ten northern tribes did that, for God's Word has much to say after that event where both kingdoms had war against each other. So you left that truth out.
Some might be confused when reading these posts about the OT history of the two houses written in God's Word and the origin of the title Jew, but that in no way detracts from what Apostle Paul taught about the idea of a spiritual Jew in Christ Jesus.
See Acts 21:39 and Acts 22:3 where Paul himself declares that he is a Jew, yet in Romans 11:1 Paul also said he was of the tribe of Benjamin. The title of Jew originated from the sole tribe of Judah. So how could Paul claim to be a Jew while being born of the tribe of Benjamin?
The matter is very simple in God's Word, because per the OT histories the Jews represented the southern "kingdom of Judah" which were made up of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin at Jerusalem/Judea, and later also most of the tribe of Levi, and then some small remnants of the northern ten tribes that trekked south to join with Rehoboam, king of Judah. Not only those took the title of Jew, but so did foreigners also living in those southern lands (per Jewish historian Josephus).
So in earlier OT times, the title of Jew applied ONLY to those of the southern kingdom of Judah at Jerusalem/Judea, and its converts of strangers that lived with them. Also any later converts to the 'Jew's religion' also took the title of Jew. And when the nation of Edom was destroyed, many of the Edomites migrated into the lands of Judea and became religious Jews along with the strangers already there. The Herod kings were Jews, but their origin of birth was from Edom (Esau). This is why today the Jews in Israel recognize two different classes of Jews, the Sephardic and the Ashkenazi.
See Acts 21:39 and Acts 22:3 where Paul himself declares that he is a Jew, yet in Romans 11:1 Paul also said he was of the tribe of Benjamin. The title of Jew originated from the sole tribe of Judah. So how could Paul claim to be a Jew while being born of the tribe of Benjamin?
The matter is very simple in God's Word, because per the OT histories the Jews represented the southern "kingdom of Judah" which were made up of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin at Jerusalem/Judea, and later also most of the tribe of Levi, and then some small remnants of the northern ten tribes that trekked south to join with Rehoboam, king of Judah. Not only those took the title of Jew, but so did foreigners also living in those southern lands (per Jewish historian Josephus).
So in earlier OT times, the title of Jew applied ONLY to those of the southern kingdom of Judah at Jerusalem/Judea, and its converts of strangers that lived with them. Also any later converts to the 'Jew's religion' also took the title of Jew. And when the nation of Edom was destroyed, many of the Edomites migrated into the lands of Judea and became religious Jews along with the strangers already there. The Herod kings were Jews, but their origin of birth was from Edom (Esau). This is why today the Jews in Israel recognize two different classes of Jews, the Sephardic and the Ashkenazi.
What does Jesus Christ teach on Israel? I am satisfied for myself from what He has taught. What He teaches brings all the "kingdoms" of Israel into one Kingdom, He being the King.
Perhaps some are confusing the prophetic kingdoms before the return of our Savior with the eternal. All must keep in mind the Israel of the Jerusalem of Hagar is not the Israel of tge Jerusalem of Sarah.
The Israel of Hagar is important in prophesy, but only as regarding the staging area for the last heartbeats of this age.
Perhaps some are confusing the prophetic kingdoms before the return of our Savior with the eternal. All must keep in mind the Israel of the Jerusalem of Hagar is not the Israel of tge Jerusalem of Sarah.
The Israel of Hagar is important in prophesy, but only as regarding the staging area for the last heartbeats of this age.
A promised warning with a promised return.
Numerous more warnings with a promised return.
Finally a scattering as promised into the four corners of the earth,
attended with promised persecutions in the lands they were banished to.
And then the promised return and regathering from all the nations to which they have been scattered.
And then Israel 1948 and the regathering continues.
And so do the deniers.
Numerous more warnings with a promised return.
Finally a scattering as promised into the four corners of the earth,
attended with promised persecutions in the lands they were banished to.
And then the promised return and regathering from all the nations to which they have been scattered.
And then Israel 1948 and the regathering continues.
And so do the deniers.
Building the Temple would be in disobedience.
Daniel 9:27 KJVS
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 KJVS
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Daniel 9:27 KJVS
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 KJVS
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Who is the following referring to, which group of people?
Again the word of the Lord came to me: [SUP]17 [/SUP]‘Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. [SUP]18 [/SUP]So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, “These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.” [SUP]21 [/SUP]I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.[SUP]22 [/SUP]‘Therefore say to the Israelites, “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: it is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. [SUP]23[/SUP]I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]‘“For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. [SUP]25 [/SUP]I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. [SUP]26 [/SUP]I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh
Ezekiel36:16-36
Again the word of the Lord came to me: [SUP]17 [/SUP]‘Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. [SUP]18 [/SUP]So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, “These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.” [SUP]21 [/SUP]I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.[SUP]22 [/SUP]‘Therefore say to the Israelites, “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: it is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. [SUP]23[/SUP]I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]‘“For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. [SUP]25 [/SUP]I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. [SUP]26 [/SUP]I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh
Ezekiel36:16-36
That doesn't answer my point that all of the prophets said that Israel would be regathered IF they turned their hearts towards GOD and did his will. That hasn't happened.
As far as Daniel 9:27 is concerned, it's pretty clear to me what that means.
And [Christ] shall confirm the [new] covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [by the sacrifice of himself], and for the overspreading of abominations [Christ] shall make [Jerusalem] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
As far as Daniel 9:27 is concerned, it's pretty clear to me what that means.
And [Christ] shall confirm the [new] covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [by the sacrifice of himself], and for the overspreading of abominations [Christ] shall make [Jerusalem] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
P
It does:
2 Chronicles 11:13-16
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the priests and the Levites that were in all Israel resorted to him out of all their coasts.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the Lord:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers.
God bless.
Originally Posted by DP
That 2 Chronicles 11 Scripture shows the Levites leaving the northern 'kingdom of Israel' to associate with the 'kingdom of Judah' in the south, because of Jeroboam, king of the northern kingdom preventing them from doing their priest duties. SOME among the ten northern tribed kingdom also decided to go south and join with Judah and Benjamin as those Levites did.
That did NOT mean all the peoples of the ten northern tribes did that, for God's Word has much to say after that event where both kingdoms had war against each other. So you left that truth out.
That did NOT mean all the peoples of the ten northern tribes did that, for God's Word has much to say after that event where both kingdoms had war against each other. So you left that truth out.
The reason I mention this is because some try to proclaim that all 12 tribes of Israel have been joined back together, when that is still yet to occur today. There is a lot of history past 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 17 about the ten tribed northern kingdom fighting with the southern two tribed kingdom of Judah, and 2 Kings 17 shows that ONLY the northern ten tribes were taken captive out of the land first, while the kingdom of Judah in the south remained (and then around 100 years later would be taken captive 70 years to Babylon). The majority of the ten tribes of Israel never returned, as Ezra 2 gives exactly which tribes returned to Jerusalem after the Babylon captivity, and the ten tribes are not mentioned there.
The reason why some Preterists like to counter this is because if can try to make one believe that all 12 tribes of Israel have been joined together today, then it would tend to support their false doctrines that those things in God's Word for the time of Christ's second coming have already come to pass, when they have not. So don't be deceived by them. Jesus hasn't returned yet.
The reason why some Preterists like to counter this is because if can try to make one believe that all 12 tribes of Israel have been joined together today, then it would tend to support their false doctrines that those things in God's Word for the time of Christ's second coming have already come to pass, when they have not. So don't be deceived by them. Jesus hasn't returned yet.
Judah unquestionably represented the twelve tribes. That is why they called themselves 'Israel'. We have clear evidence that Israelites who genuinely believed in YHWH emigrated to Judah in large numbers, in the days of Rehoboam, Asa and Hezekiah. And unquestionably others would emigrate there in lesser numbers at other times. Thus Judah would contain a good number of representatives of all twelve tribes, and most importantly would contain those who truly believed in YHWH.
As always those who turned from YHWH were cast off. Thus in God's eyes Judah was the true remnant of Israel. God does not deal with reprobates. When Judah rebelled the same happened to them.
And I am NOT a preterist!!!!!
As always those who turned from YHWH were cast off. Thus in God's eyes Judah was the true remnant of Israel. God does not deal with reprobates. When Judah rebelled the same happened to them.
And I am NOT a preterist!!!!!
No one here has disputed the Biblical fact that SOME among the northern ten tribed kingdom of ISRAEL left to go down and join with the kingdom of JUDAH at Jerusalem, simply because king of Jeroboam of ISRAEL had prevented them from going down to Jerusalem to worship, which was required by God at that time.
But that did not affect the greatest majority of Israelites of the ten northern tribed kingdom of ISRAEL in the north, nor did it end its existence. Then ten northern tribes of Israel that STAYED in the north still... made up the majority of the peoples of ISRAEL.
In Josephus' days (100 A.D.), he said the ten tribes of Israel were still... scattered out of the holy land in his time, and that they were a great number of people, too many to be numbered (counted). Those were not the Jews.
But that did not affect the greatest majority of Israelites of the ten northern tribed kingdom of ISRAEL in the north, nor did it end its existence. Then ten northern tribes of Israel that STAYED in the north still... made up the majority of the peoples of ISRAEL.
In Josephus' days (100 A.D.), he said the ten tribes of Israel were still... scattered out of the holy land in his time, and that they were a great number of people, too many to be numbered (counted). Those were not the Jews.