Israel... or not?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If that were true, then how will God do what He said here?

Amos 9:8-9
8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
KJV

Ezek 37:19-22
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
KJV



And just in case someone here wants to tell lies against this Scripture, here's the part that reveals emphatically that this Ezek.37 Scripture was NOT past history...

Ezek 37:24-28
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
KJV

Amos 9:8-9 and Ezek 37:19-22 obviously were fulfilled at Pentecost. Ezek 37:24-28 is obviously talking about Christ and the new covenant.

Do you take all of Ezekiel so literally? Do you think animal sacrifices will be part of the new age as Ezekiel describes. If you don't believe that, why don't you take it literally like all of the other stuff that you do?

 

[DP]

Amos 9:8-9 and Ezek 37:19-22 obviously were fulfilled at Pentecost. Ezek 37:24-28 is obviously talking about Christ and the new covenant.

Do you take all of Ezekiel so literally? Do you think animal sacrifices will be part of the new age as Ezekiel describes. If you don't believe that, why don't you take it literally like all of the other stuff that you do?

Do I take God's Word literally, is what you should have asked, and the answer is YES! even when God uses allegory, symbols, and parable to explain a matter making it easier to understand.

But that's NOT what you're doing. You're reading into Scripture how you think it should read based on the traditions of men you've been taught, which are a false wall dabbed with untempered mortar.

And since you cannot do anything against those Scriptures I posted you instead bring up the subject of sacrifices when no such thing is even mentioned in those Scriptures there??

But I know what you're referring to, later in Ezekiel, which apparently you are not given to understand. If you did, you'd be asking how God's River and the many trees on either side of that River could exist with animal sacrifices. But since you have failed to give enough trust in God to study it to know why that is there, then He has closed it off to you.

And NO, those Scriptures I posted were NOT fulfilled at Pentecost. The gathering of the "house of Israel" has still yet to occur today, and won't until the day of Christ's return.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead

Amos 9:8-9 and Ezek 37:19-22 obviously were fulfilled at Pentecost. Ezek 37:24-28 is obviously talking about Christ and the new covenant.

Do you take all of Ezekiel so literally? Do you think animal sacrifices will be part of the new age as Ezekiel describes. If you don't believe that, why don't you take it literally like all of the other stuff that you do?

And since you cannot do anything against those Scriptures I posted you instead bring up the subject of sacrifices when no such thing is even mentioned in those Scriptures there??

But I know what you're referring to, later in Ezekiel, which apparently you are not given to understand. If you did, you'd be asking how God's River and the many trees on either side of that River could exist with animal sacrifices. But since you have failed to give enough trust in God to study it to know why that is there, then He has closed it off to you.

You haven't answered the question.

What you have said generates another question, are you speaking about the Millennial Kingdom here or the Eternal State?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M

There is nothing in Scripture that even comes close to suggesting that James' address to his brethren supports that the Church is the Twelve Tribes of Israel. If we take such an approach then we must equally say that the entire Church are Corinthians, Romans, or Hebrews.

If there is neither Jew nor Greek, then there is no classification for the Church except that they are the Church.

God bless.

God chose Israel to be a kingdom of priests (Ex.19:6), and Apostle Peter repeats that same chosen concept about Christ's Church in 1 Pet.2:9. Thus God's Israel is... Christ's Church in final, irregardless that some among Israel refuse to believe.

That is not really the issue. Of course those who are saved in this Age are members of the Church.

What is in view is whether or not the Twelve Tribes are still in existence. That is the debate I have been part of, anyway, lol.

In Galatians 3, Apostle Paul made it plain that the Promise by Faith is what Abraham was given and he believed, and thus all those who have believed as Abraham did have become the children of Abraham. That's about Christ's Church. The Promise by Faith was always first, prior to the giving of the law.

I have already given my view on this, in that we do not become children of Abraham but sons of God. That is the distinction between the Church and all those of faith under Old Testament Economies.

Faith in Christ is specific to this Age and while we can be said to be "children of Abraham through faith," that does not nullify the purpose of reconciliation by which we become sons of God, nor does it make us members of the Twelve Tribes of Israel.

You point out in an earlier post that Gentiles have rule (which I do not see, though we consider only Gentile presence for now):


Revelation 21:24-26

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.


These shall be members of the Church, sons of God, not children of Abraham, who is also a son of God himself through faith.

In Romans 11:1-5, Apostle Paul is specifically speaking of an elect remnant of the seed of Israel which God reserved, which is also about Christ's Church.

Rom 11:1-5
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

That means a believing remnant of the seed of Israel, Christ's Apostles representing those.

What it means, just as it did in Isaiah's day, is that God has not cast off His people despite the fact that they were faithless and being judged.

In other words...they are still there, and the remnant would be those of faith. The Nation as a whole is not without God, a parallel being America: America is often denounced as a whole due to the image it presents, but that does not mean all Americans can be defined by the general image America presents to the world.

In Ephesians 2, Paul declared the foundation of Christ's Church being built also upon the OT prophets of Israel.

In view is the Word of God...not the men themselves.


Ephesians 2:19-22

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

[SUP]20 [/SUP]And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

[SUP]21 [/SUP]In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


The foundation laid by the Apostles and Prophets is found in that which they conveyed, not that they themselves are to be placed on a pedestal as some do with Peter.

The teachings of the Law and the Prophets (and Psalms) were foundational to the Doctrine of Christ, and we are not to lay again the foundational teachings, but progress to the completion Christ brought. We do not abandon the foundational teachings, any more than a builder abandons the plans of construction, but, when completion of the project comes the builder...does not live in the plans, but that which is built.

So was James literally speaking of BELIEVERS on Christ Jesus when he addressed that to the twelve tribes scattered abroad? YES! Most definitely!

There is no question believers were in view in his address of the scattered Tribes, of course they were believers.

What is in question is the fact that he was, in his day...address the Twelve Tribes.

Not Gentiles who had been assimilated into Israel.

The majority of all 12 tribes were scattered through the countries according to God's Word, with only a very small remnant of the "house of Judah" (2 tribes) having returned to Jerusalem after the 70 years Babylon captivity (Ezra 2).

How does that nullify the fact that in Christ's day, as well as Paul's that they still knew who belonged to which Tribe? Those who had intermarried were dealt with in Ezra 10, and those who could not prove their Tribe were also mentioned:


Ezra 2:59

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]59 [/SUP]And these were they which went up from Telmelah, Telharsa, Cherub, Addan, and Immer: but they could not shew their father's house, and their seed, whether they were of Israel:


And there is indication that all houses of Israel are represented there:

Ezra 2:70

King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]70 [/SUP]So the priests, and the Levites, and some of the people, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, dwelt in their cities, and all Israel in their cities.



Perhaps I am missing what it is you are trying to say. My only point is that the Twelve Tribes of Israel were not scattered to the point where they lost all track of who was who. Again, Israel was meticulous due to the Law in regards to their heritage, and Ezra 10 seems to make that point:



Ezra 10

King James Version (KJV)

1 Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.



God bless.

 

[DP]

You haven't answered the question.

What you have said generates another question, are you speaking about the Millennial Kingdom here or the Eternal State?


God bless.

Neither one of you have answered my question in that post that I raised first, when I posted from Amos 9, etc.

But you and HeRoseFromTheDead only tried to CHANGE the subject.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Neither one of you have answered my question in that post that I raised first, when I posted from Amos 9, etc.

But you and HeRoseFromTheDead only tried to CHANGE the subject.

What burden am I under to answer your question? I simply point out he asks a valid question which you have a burden to answer.

Nevertheless, here is what you posted:

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead

This just proves that the twelve tribes have nothing to do with natural genealogy.

IMO anyone who thinks that there are 144,000 persons alive today who have pure genealogies going back to the 12 tribes of Israel is watching the Looney Tunes channel.

If that were true, then how will God do what He said here?

Amos 9:8-9
8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
KJV

Ezek 37:19-22
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
KJV

No need for me to answer the question, as I have consistently argued that God will have available to Himself the Twelve Tribes mentioned in Revelation. While we have the substitution of Manasses for Dan, we still see that Twelve Tribes are given in Revelation and we either believe this or we have to create a reason why it doesn't mean what it means.


God bless.

 

[JaumeJ]

Simple question, are we awaiting the Jerusalem of Hagar or are we awaiting the Jerusalem of Sarah? Sorry about the reference to figures of the Old Testament, but the response is in the New Testament.

 

[DP]

That is not really the issue. Of course those who are saved in this Age are members of the Church.

What is in view is whether or not the Twelve Tribes are still in existence. That is the debate I have been part of, anyway,

When Apostle Peter quotes from an OT Scripture that was originally given to the children of Israel, and then Peter applies that to Christ's Church; that's not an issue?? IT MOST DEFINITELY IS! It proves how Apostle Peter saw Christ's Church in relation to God's Israel.

I have already given my view on this, in that we do not become children of Abraham but sons of God. That is the distinction between the Church and all those of faith under Old Testament Economies.

Then you deny what Apostle Paul taught in Galatians 3 about those of Faith are the children of Abraham:

Gal 3:7
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
KJV


(Have I really... come to a true Christian forum here? Many times it doesn't seem Christian at all, with all the folks here that are bent on denying so much of the written Word of God!)

You don't know what Faith Abraham's Faith represents, do you? which is why Apostle Paul said those of Faith are the children of Abraham. It's because the blessing God gave to Abraham INCLUDED The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Abraham's Faith was in the same Gospel Promise we have believed, that's why he is our spiritual father per Paul.


You're latter tirade only contained a few points of validity, the rest was pure doctrinal traditions from men.

Because the Church foundation of Eph.2 includes God's OT prophets has nothing to do with stupid exalting. It has everything to do with The Gospel of Jesus Christ, for The Gospel is found in the OT Books also, even starting at Gen.3. The Book of Isaiah is one the greatest OT Books about God's Salvation through His Son. THAT... is why those prophets are included in the foundation of Ephesians 2, along with the Apostles and our Lord Jesus as the Cornerstone.

But the corruptions of men's traditions you've latched onto try to destroy that connection of the OT prophets linked with the foundation of Christ's Church, and that includes their importance still TODAY for Christ's Church, even all the way into God's Eternity since God gave them to write about it in His Word!

You're parallel to America is outlandish also. I'm sorry that my ancestors of the American Revolution whipped Britain's butt, twice, but that was history, get over it.

With your attempt to use Ezra as evidence for your view, you have turned God's Holy Writ upside down, just in order to keep your tradition of men. No wonder your tradition denies the scattering of the ten-tribed house of Israel by the kings of Assyria PRIOR to Judah's later Babylon captivity!

By not recognizing the majority of Israelites were not there in the return per the Books of Ezra and Nehemiah, you have just left the small remnant of the house of Judah that returned from Babylon as the ONLY seed of Israel.

2 Kings 17:18
18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of His sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.
KJV

See, you can't make Scripture like Ezra 2:70 mean all Israel without turning other parts of God's Word upside down. You wouldn't have done that if you actually knew your OT history better. Go back to 1 Kings 11 and read forward to that 2 Kings 17 chapter.

Note this also:

2 Chron 11:13-17
13 And the priests and the Levites that were in all Israel resorted to him out of all their coasts.
14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the LORD:
15 And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.
16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
17 So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon.
KJV


Starting at 1 Kings 12, old Israel was split into two separate kingdoms. Some of the people out of all the tribes of Israel in the north refused king Jeroboam's golden calf worship, so they went down to Jerusalem and sided with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The Levites in the north did also. Those in the southern kingdom were called "kingdom of Judah" (thus above), and also "house of Judah".

My point? ONLY those of the "house of Judah" went into the Babylon captivity by Nebuchadnezzar. The ten tribed northern "kingdom of Israel" or "house of Israel", was already... gone... out of the land by then. SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE TEN TRIBES RETURNING WITH EZRA BACK TO JERUSALEM AFTER THE 70 YEARS BABYLON CAPTIVITY WHEN THE TEN TRIBES WERE NOT... EVEN A PART OF THE BABYLON CAPTIVITY IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?

No, instead, you've just accepted a false history about the Book of Ezra of those who deny the real history outlined in God's Holy Writ. It shows you have not really looked into that Biblical history for yourself, but just took other's word for it.

In Luke 2, you'll find one Anna, who was of the tribe of Asher, and she spoke of Jesus. Does that prove all 12 tribes of Israel were back together in that day? Of course not, because OT histories reveals the ten tribes were scattered.

So when James 1:1 addressed the 12 tribes "scattered abroad", that's exactly... what he meant.

It means Israelites of the SEED of Israel scattered among the nations of Gentiles, not the other way around which is a stupid idea.

 

[DP]

What burden am I under to answer your question? I simply point out he asks a valid question which you have a burden to answer.


No need for me to answer the question, as I have consistently argued that God will have available to Himself the Twelve Tribes mentioned in Revelation. While we have the substitution of Manasses for Dan, we still see that Twelve Tribes are given in Revelation and we either believe this or we have to create a reason why it doesn't mean what it means.


God bless.

I don't really think you... are all there!

Obviously, I'm dealing with a child here.

 

[JaumeJ]

If we are awaiting the Jerusalem of Sarah, then it stands to reason we are of the Israel of the New Jerusalem, does it not?

Simple question, are we awaiting the Jerusalem of Hagar or are we awaiting the Jerusalem of Sarah? Sorry about the reference to figures of the Old Testament, but the response is in the New Testament.

 

[DP]

Simple question, are we awaiting the Jerusalem of Hagar or are we awaiting the Jerusalem of Sarah? Sorry about the reference to figures of the Old Testament, but the response is in the New Testament.

We await the Jerusalem of the free woman (Galatians).

 

[DP]

No one will truly understand the Biblical connection God's Israel has with Christ's Church without understanding God's Birthright blessings first given through Abraham and to his seed.

In Romans 9 Apostle Paul quoted a passage from the Book of Hosea which was written to the ten lost tribes of Israel under the tribe of Ephraim. Paul applied the final blessing God gave in it to both... the believing seed of Israel joined with believing Gentiles.

Hos 1:10-11
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people', there it shall be said unto them, 'Ye are the sons of the living God.'


11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
KJV


Apostle Paul's quote from that Hosea Scripture to... Gentile Romans:

Rom 9:25-26
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.


26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
KJV




Now then, for those who don't understand what those two Scriptures reveal, I will point it out specifically:

1. Hosea - God gave that Message to the rebellious house of Israel, the ten-tribed northern "kingdom of Israel" with one of Ephraim as their head (first one was king Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim per 1 Kings 11).

Thus the Book of Hosea was NOT written to Gentiles, but specifically to the SEED of Israel of the ten northern tribes. This is why that Hosea 1:10 verse says the number of the children of Israel will as the sands of the sea that cannot be numbered.

2. Romans 9 - Yet Apostle Paul is quoting that passage in Hosea 1 to... whom? To Romans. Who were the Romans?? Gentiles of course, and some of the scattered Jews of the house of Judah. Oh, but God gave Hosea to speak that to the ten tribes, not to Judah:

Hos 1:4
4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
KJV

Hos 1:6
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
KJV

Hos 4:15-17
15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Beth-aven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.
16 For Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer: now the LORD will feed them as a lamb in a large place.
17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
KJV

Hos 5:1-3
5:1 Hear ye this, O priests; and hearken, ye house of Israel; and give ye ear, O house of the king; for judgment is toward you, because ye have been a snare on Mizpah, and a net spread upon Tabor.
2 And the revolters are profound to make slaughter, though I have been a rebuker of them all.
3 I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now, O Ephraim, thou committest whoredom, and Israel is defiled.
KJV

There were also Israelites of the ten tribes among the Romans also, and they were NOT Jews of Judah.

It is still many of the Jews today that deny the existence of the ten lost tribes of Israel, when even many of their own scholars have proclaimed a future joining of the house of Judah and house of Israel (ten tribes) back together again as written in God's Word. For now, the majority of the ten tribes do not know who they are.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

.
The 'ten lost tribes' aren't lost, they don't exist anymore except as a spiritual reality that only GOD understands. The 'not my people' are those who believe the gospel and repent, whatever nationality they may be of.

No one will truly understand the Biblical connection God's Israel has with Christ's Church without understanding God's Birthright blessings first given through Abraham and to his seed.

In Romans 9 Apostle Paul quoted a passage from the Book of Hosea which was written to the ten lost tribes of Israel under the tribe of Ephraim. Paul applied the final blessing God gave in it to both... the believing seed of Israel joined with believing Gentiles.

Hos 1:10-11
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people', there it shall be said unto them, 'Ye are the sons of the living God.'


11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
KJV


Apostle Paul's quote from that Hosea Scripture to... Gentile Romans:

Rom 9:25-26
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.


26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
KJV




Now then, for those who don't understand what those two Scriptures reveal, I will point it out specifically:

1. Hosea - God gave that Message to the rebellious house of Israel, the ten-tribed northern "kingdom of Israel" with one of Ephraim as their head (first one was king Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim per 1 Kings 11).

Thus the Book of Hosea was NOT written to Gentiles, but specifically to the SEED of Israel of the ten northern tribes. This is why that Hosea 1:10 verse says the number of the children of Israel will as the sands of the sea that cannot be numbered.

2. Romans 9 - Yet Apostle Paul is quoting that passage in Hosea 1 to... whom? To Romans. Who were the Romans?? Gentiles of course, and some of the scattered Jews of the house of Judah. Oh, but God gave Hosea to speak that to the ten tribes, not to Judah:

Hos 1:4
4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
KJV

Hos 1:6
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
KJV

Hos 4:15-17
15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Beth-aven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.
16 For Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer: now the LORD will feed them as a lamb in a large place.
17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
KJV

Hos 5:1-3
5:1 Hear ye this, O priests; and hearken, ye house of Israel; and give ye ear, O house of the king; for judgment is toward you, because ye have been a snare on Mizpah, and a net spread upon Tabor.
2 And the revolters are profound to make slaughter, though I have been a rebuker of them all.
3 I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now, O Ephraim, thou committest whoredom, and Israel is defiled.
KJV

There were also Israelites of the ten tribes among the Romans also, and they were NOT Jews of Judah.

It is still many of the Jews today that deny the existence of the ten lost tribes of Israel, when even many of their own scholars have proclaimed a future joining of the house of Judah and house of Israel (ten tribes) back together again as written in God's Word. For now, the majority of the ten tribes do not know who they are.

 

[valiant]

On what do you base that statement?

God bless.

On the historical facts.

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus Christ, King of the Jews. He is my King.............Paul explains who Jews are, for he knew the definition of Jew when he uttered the word, Jew. Jews are those who praise God, Yahweh. Actually when the part of the word Judah is named as those who are of the Tribe of Israel, it is the part which is God's name, Yah, one of His names.

So a Jew is not necessarily of that Tribe of Israel called Judah, rather a Jew is anyone who praise God in spirit and truth. Those who praise God are Israel, indeed.

Jesus speaks of His original flock, Israel, and the other flock He was to gather to His original flock. That other flock is the nations or pagans brought together with Israel, making them all of the original flock.

Another way of understanding this is the promise made to Abraham that his descendants would possess the Gate of their enemies. Their enemies were always those of the nations, or pagans. When those of the nations, gentiles, enter throught the Gate, Jesus Christ, they enter in with the possessors of the Gate.

If this is too difficult to understand, then, it is darkness for those who do not. It is light for all who do, and peace with all mankind in Jesus Christ...

 

[DP]

.
The 'ten lost tribes' aren't lost, they don't exist anymore except as a spiritual reality that only GOD understands.

Sorry, but you really don't know how funny that statement is.

The world has lost the scattered ten tribes of Israel, and they have even lost their own identity, but God has not lost them like He said, and He will gather them like corn through a sieve and not the least grain will fall to the ground. Their gathering and joining back with the "house of Judah" (Jews) is one of the great events foretold of in the OT prophets.

And like I've already shown, the Hosea 1 passage which Apostle Paul quoted to Gentiles in Romans 9 was originally written only to the seed of the house of Israel, the ten tribes, as the main subject there was about their idol worship rebellion against God, and He cast them out of His sight, calling them lo ami (not My people).

But with Paul quoting the rest of that Hosea 1 part to the Roman believers, he was showing how God had always had an alternate plan for the scattered ten lost tribes, even though they lost their heritage as Israel while among the Gentiles, ultimately revealing Christ's Kingdom among them in new lands. Yet the final gathering to the holy land is not yet today, and only will occur at Christ's 2nd coming.

 

[DP]

Jesus Christ, King of the Jews. He is my King.............Paul explains who Jews are, for he knew the definition of Jew when he uttered the word, Jew. Jews are those who praise God, Yahweh. Actually when the part of the word Judah is named as those who are of the Tribe of Israel, it is the part which is God's name, Yah, one of His names.

So a Jew is not necessarily of that Tribe of Israel called Judah, rather a Jew is anyone who praise God in spirit and truth. Those who praise God are Israel, indeed.

Jesus speaks of His original flock, Israel, and the other flock He was to gather to His original flock. That other flock is the nations or pagans brought together with Israel, making them all of the original flock.

Another way of understanding this is the promise made to Abraham that his descendants would possess the Gate of their enemies. Their enemies were always those of the nations, or pagans. When those of the nations, gentiles, enter throught the Gate, Jesus Christ, they enter in with the possessors of the Gate.

If this is too difficult to understand, then, it is darkness for those who do not. It is light for all who do, and peace with all mankind in Jesus Christ...

Problem is... Jesus of Nazareth is not king of the Jews, but King over all Israel.

And what's funny is, Pilate is who put up the sign above Jesus' head that read 'king of the Jews', because he knew it would tick off the Jews, and it did.

 

[JaumeJ]

Paul explains what a "true Jew" is, and I have given the definition fairly well here, and many times in the past. The problem with many who read the Word is not giving credit to the incomplete translations from He brew. Of course we are all Jews who believe, true Jews on the inside, for w are praisers of Yah. Yahudah means praiser of Yah, or praise of God. Read in various versions of the Word in Romans, in one version Paul is translated as defining who is the true Jew, while in another Jew is translated, and he refers to who is the true praise of God.
If you learn what Israel translates as, yo uwill find we who believe are Israel also by translation, but as long as people keep these untranslated, they will never know what the words are that make up these names. We are all members of the Body of Jesus Christ, therefore in a sense we are "Princes with El." Or rulers with God, but only like Jesus Christ, not Jesus Chrññist ourselves. To think tat would be presumptuous and in error.
All of this simple study is quite rewarding. It does not reveal all of God's wonder and mysteries, for the lion's share will not be understood until we are with Him, but it is wonderful knowing these small understandings.

Problem is... Jesus of Nazareth is not king of the Jews, but King over all Israel.

And what's funny is, Pilate is who put up the sign above Jesus' head that read 'king of the Jews', because he knew it would tick off the Jews, and it did.

 

[valiant]

Sorry, but you really don't know how funny that statement is.

The world has lost the scattered ten tribes of Israel, and they have even lost their own identity, but God has not lost them like He said, and He will gather them like corn through a sieve and not the least grain will fall to the ground. Their gathering and joining back with the "house of Judah" (Jews) is one of the great events foretold of in the OT prophets.

And like I've already shown, the Hosea 1 passage which Apostle Paul quoted to Gentiles in Romans 9 was originally written only to the seed of the house of Israel, the ten tribes, as the main subject there was about their idol worship rebellion against God, and He cast them out of His sight, calling them lo ami (not My people).

But with Paul quoting the rest of that Hosea 1 part to the Roman believers, he was showing how God had always had an alternate plan for the scattered ten lost tribes, even though they lost their heritage as Israel while among the Gentiles, ultimately revealing Christ's Kingdom among them in new lands. Yet the final gathering to the holy land is not yet today, and only will occur at Christ's 2nd coming.

Most of Judah is 'lost'. All that remains is those who remained relatively faithful. The same was true of the other tribes. The large number who remained faithful SURVIVED by moving to Judah. Thus the tribes are not lost. Only those cut off by unbelief.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Sorry, but you really don't know how funny that statement is.

The world has lost the scattered ten tribes of Israel, and they have even lost their own identity, but God has not lost them like He said, and He will gather them like corn through a sieve and not the least grain will fall to the ground. Their gathering and joining back with the "house of Judah" (Jews) is one of the great events foretold of in the OT prophets.

And like I've already shown, the Hosea 1 passage which Apostle Paul quoted to Gentiles in Romans 9 was originally written only to the seed of the house of Israel, the ten tribes, as the main subject there was about their idol worship rebellion against God, and He cast them out of His sight, calling them lo ami (not My people).

But with Paul quoting the rest of that Hosea 1 part to the Roman believers, he was showing how God had always had an alternate plan for the scattered ten lost tribes, even though they lost their heritage as Israel while among the Gentiles, ultimately revealing Christ's Kingdom among them in new lands. Yet the final gathering to the holy land is not yet today, and only will occur at Christ's 2nd coming.

How can anyone in their right mind think that tribal purity of the 10 tribes has been preserved for 2700 years? They've been assimilated into the world gene pool.