Christians are not required to keep the law.
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I honestly cannot see what you take issue with here. I have stated repeatedly, no law of righteousness is in place. Jesus died for all our sins, past, present and future. The law cannot condemn us.
The law being written on our minds and placed on our hearts simply means in our minds we instinctively know how God wants us to live and in our hearts we want to obey
What is wrong with that in your view?
We don't perfectly obey, none of us. The law within cannot condemn us for Jesus paid the price of all our sin, he is the only righteousness/justification we will ever have before the father. No one can be good enough for God or attain heaven under the law
The law being written on our minds and placed on our hearts simply means in our minds we instinctively know how God wants us to live and in our hearts we want to obey
What is wrong with that in your view?
We don't perfectly obey, none of us. The law within cannot condemn us for Jesus paid the price of all our sin, he is the only righteousness/justification we will ever have before the father. No one can be good enough for God or attain heaven under the law
E
You contradict yourself.
1. You do not know what sin is and you need the law to tell you. but then you do know what sin is because God told you. Which is it?
2. WHat is a law of righteousness? It is a law which if someone obeys it, he will be righteous. Thous shalt not bear false witness and the many other commands God has given us from genesis to revelation are part of that law. If we obeyed them all, we would be righteous, But we can;t so we must turn to something else.
So those commands are part of the law of righteousness, but you say it is not for the christian, but yet it is, which is it? you again contradict yourself.
You can not have it both ways, Either we obey one part of the law. or we obey it all.. God says obey it all. he does not water down his law. so why are you?
He did put his law in our hearts. the law of Love the law of faith. Not the law of moses (which includes the ten commands.) And he wrote it in our minds. Thats why he said, Love one another, and him, and even our enemy, and we will not sin..
we are not good people because of some law. We are moral people because God showed us how to love others, and humble self.
Your way is not Gods way my friend, I do not doubt your salvation from what I see, But you, as I was in my younger life, are steeped in Christian legalism, which will stunt your growth, or eventually cause you to walk away from God, whether you believe it or not. I have witnessed it so many times to many to even count, It always leads to that.
I am trying to help you get free from the bonds which so enslaved me and many brothers before you. But I can not force you to do anything.
1. You do not know what sin is and you need the law to tell you. but then you do know what sin is because God told you. Which is it?
2. WHat is a law of righteousness? It is a law which if someone obeys it, he will be righteous. Thous shalt not bear false witness and the many other commands God has given us from genesis to revelation are part of that law. If we obeyed them all, we would be righteous, But we can;t so we must turn to something else.
So those commands are part of the law of righteousness, but you say it is not for the christian, but yet it is, which is it? you again contradict yourself.
You can not have it both ways, Either we obey one part of the law. or we obey it all.. God says obey it all. he does not water down his law. so why are you?
He did put his law in our hearts. the law of Love the law of faith. Not the law of moses (which includes the ten commands.) And he wrote it in our minds. Thats why he said, Love one another, and him, and even our enemy, and we will not sin..
we are not good people because of some law. We are moral people because God showed us how to love others, and humble self.
Your way is not Gods way my friend, I do not doubt your salvation from what I see, But you, as I was in my younger life, are steeped in Christian legalism, which will stunt your growth, or eventually cause you to walk away from God, whether you believe it or not. I have witnessed it so many times to many to even count, It always leads to that.
I am trying to help you get free from the bonds which so enslaved me and many brothers before you. But I can not force you to do anything.
E
Thank you. As it made God sick when we sinned, it also makes us sick when we are self absorbed and want to please self. instead of serving others. Which ANY SIN is based on this matter
The issue is not the actual thing we do, it is the heart attitude.
Paul tried to explain this to religious law focused Jews, but they never got it, they were to stuck in religion, Sadly we have this same issue today.
E
Because you have it the wrong way,
You have the law doing this, when it can not do this, Only Gods love and the new nature he gave us can do this. No law worren on anything will ever do what God did the moment he gave us thet NEW HEART...
Then you are condemned, that is what the law states, so why continue to go after some law which can ony condemn you?
You can not say the law condemns, But we are not under law. But we are under law. that is contradictory. No wonder the world looks at us like we are not very bright..
Put on the mind of Christ, Jesus did not walk around thinking about what law he miust obey 24/7. He focused on people. Who can I serve today, WHo can I win over today, Who can I please today. Even when hhis disciples told him to slow down and take care of his own needs, He said no. His father has work to do.
That is what we should do. Not focus on some law. if we are so focused on laws. we will miss out on the real things God wants us to do.
I would stop trying to help me get free of bondage and if it is possible(which in truth I doubt it is sadly) reflect on what I have actually said. But that would require you admitting you misunderstood.
The law comes in two parts, the law itself and the attached penalty for breaking it. Condemnation comes from the penalty. The penalty for breaking the law got removed for the christian, the law itself didn't
Now you seem to take offence at me knowing God does not want m to lie, commit adultery, steal etc. And you start accusing me of legalism, being puffed up, possibly led by satan, maybe not a christian, all because I believe God changed me into someone who instinctively knew how he wanted me to live and in my heart( not my flesh) I want to live as God desires me to
I cannot be condemned for my faliures to obey the law on my heart for Jesus died for all my sin at Calvary, past, present and future. He is the only rightstanding I will ever have before the father
There is something very badly wrong at the way you have reacted to these beliefs of mine, very badly wrong indeed. I can assure you, you never suffered more from legalism than I did, if you want to privately pm me i will explain if you wish
There is nothing wrong with knowing how God wants us to live and in our hearts wanting to obey, for we accepted Christ as our lord and saviour. But though in our hearts we want to obey we all too often fail. But Christ stands before the father as our righteousness before him.
You have badly overreacted here, if you wont believe ne, I hope someone else may be able to convince you
The law comes in two parts, the law itself and the attached penalty for breaking it. Condemnation comes from the penalty. The penalty for breaking the law got removed for the christian, the law itself didn't
Now you seem to take offence at me knowing God does not want m to lie, commit adultery, steal etc. And you start accusing me of legalism, being puffed up, possibly led by satan, maybe not a christian, all because I believe God changed me into someone who instinctively knew how he wanted me to live and in my heart( not my flesh) I want to live as God desires me to
I cannot be condemned for my faliures to obey the law on my heart for Jesus died for all my sin at Calvary, past, present and future. He is the only rightstanding I will ever have before the father
There is something very badly wrong at the way you have reacted to these beliefs of mine, very badly wrong indeed. I can assure you, you never suffered more from legalism than I did, if you want to privately pm me i will explain if you wish
There is nothing wrong with knowing how God wants us to live and in our hearts wanting to obey, for we accepted Christ as our lord and saviour. But though in our hearts we want to obey we all too often fail. But Christ stands before the father as our righteousness before him.
You have badly overreacted here, if you wont believe ne, I hope someone else may be able to convince you
E
Sadly, I doubt you will ever get it, I grew up like you. listening to pastor after pastor tell me the same things your telling me now. I watched people fall over and over and over and could not figure out why. I fell myself over and over, and finally walked completely away from God.
It was not until I was freed from this legalistic, self focused I am better than you are mental attitude, and saw myself as I really was, a sinner, Who was so undeserving of Gods grace, All I could do was fall on my knees..
But hey, If you do not wish to hear me out, thats on you, I am not going to sit here and try to discuss something with someone who has no desire to hear what I have to say. while I hear the same excuses, the same lies, the same false sayings I grew up with, and have heard thousands of times before.
It was not until I was freed from this legalistic, self focused I am better than you are mental attitude, and saw myself as I really was, a sinner, Who was so undeserving of Gods grace, All I could do was fall on my knees..
But hey, If you do not wish to hear me out, thats on you, I am not going to sit here and try to discuss something with someone who has no desire to hear what I have to say. while I hear the same excuses, the same lies, the same false sayings I grew up with, and have heard thousands of times before.
Listen, you were the first to challenge my post in this thread, so don't paint yourself as a victim.
The 'law written on our heart' is simply another Hebrew way of saying we received a new heart. Both are stated in Jer 31. Do you think for the born again person the law is written on our old heart? The law does not need to be written on our new nature...it is a living life of God's nature.
The 'law written on our heart' is simply another Hebrew way of saying we received a new heart. Both are stated in Jer 31. Do you think for the born again person the law is written on our old heart? The law does not need to be written on our new nature...it is a living life of God's nature.
I can honestly say you do not understand the two part covenant. The way you have reacted to what I wrote proves that sadly. You seem unable to understand by the law being placed within me(as scripture plainly states it is) simply means I know how God wants me to live and in my heart I want to obey. No legalism, no law of righteousness, no condemnation from the law
The idea the christian is not supposed to know how God wants then to live is frankly ridiculous.
Anyway, I know you always have to be right so you will never accept your error here, sadly that is not possible
The idea the christian is not supposed to know how God wants then to live is frankly ridiculous.
Anyway, I know you always have to be right so you will never accept your error here, sadly that is not possible
E
Nope. your the one who does not understand
the law is not in two parts. it was always one law..
what is rediculous is you think a christian does not understand what sin is, And what is proposterous is that Paul tells you in romans 1. they know what sin is, and love to do it even though they know it is wrong. and you REFUSE TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE PAUL SAID IT.
I think I agree with Crossnote. all you want to do is argue.
the law is not in two parts. it was always one law..
what is rediculous is you think a christian does not understand what sin is, And what is proposterous is that Paul tells you in romans 1. they know what sin is, and love to do it even though they know it is wrong. and you REFUSE TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE PAUL SAID IT.
I think I agree with Crossnote. all you want to do is argue.
We can't keep the law because God's law has to be kept through agape love. All we have is self-love, therefore our motive would always be out of harmony with God's law.
We can experience fruit that is harmony with God's law as we learn to walk in the Spirit. That requires us to give up and let God defeat the flesh. We can never defeat it (see Romans chapter 7). Again, only as we walk in the Spirit can we experience good works (see Romans chapter 8).
But if we are depending on what God does in us to save us or merit salvation God will not work in us. Why?
1] That would contradict that in Christ we already have salvation through faith alone.
2] It would cause us to boast in the flesh.
Good works are not primarily for our benefit, but so we can give unbelievers a glimpse of Christ's love.
We can experience fruit that is harmony with God's law as we learn to walk in the Spirit. That requires us to give up and let God defeat the flesh. We can never defeat it (see Romans chapter 7). Again, only as we walk in the Spirit can we experience good works (see Romans chapter 8).
But if we are depending on what God does in us to save us or merit salvation God will not work in us. Why?
1] That would contradict that in Christ we already have salvation through faith alone.
2] It would cause us to boast in the flesh.
Good works are not primarily for our benefit, but so we can give unbelievers a glimpse of Christ's love.