Christians are not required to keep the law.
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I understand the way you see it, sure I do.
But if I bore false witness, am I conscious I sin by bearing false witness, or am I conscious I haven't loved as I should? I wonder how most Christians would answer that question?
If they are conscious they sin by bearing false witness, that law has been placed on their heart. Simple!
And as I told you yesterday, I am not under a tutor.
But according to the bible, the penalty for sin got removed for the Christian, not the law itself. No righteousness of observing the law
But if I bore false witness, am I conscious I sin by bearing false witness, or am I conscious I haven't loved as I should? I wonder how most Christians would answer that question?
If they are conscious they sin by bearing false witness, that law has been placed on their heart. Simple!
And as I told you yesterday, I am not under a tutor.
But according to the bible, the penalty for sin got removed for the Christian, not the law itself. No righteousness of observing the law
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Would it really matter? That's not even the issue. the issue is if you had loved to begin with, you never would have bore false witness, But since you lived by the flesh in that moment, you sinned.
Again, What bvrings a person to the point of admiting his sin is not the issue, We all know it is the HS who convicts anyway.
No. I disagree. The law was in there DNA from the time they were created. As Paul said, even a gentile who was not given the law. Knows things are sin, And as he said in roman's, All people now bearing false witness is a sin, and All who do it are rightely judged, but they do it, and teach others to do it also.
Here is the difference, A non believer can obey a command, but it is self righteousness. A believe was given LOVE, and this LOVE has given him the ability to obey the command the way God intended it to be..
I am Not good because God wrote some law on my heart. I am a morally upright (not perfect) person, Because God loved me, and empowered me to do good.
No law will ever do that, in my heart, or on stone..
You put yourself back under law from the way i see it
Saying God wrote it on your heart and that is why it is different does not change the fact you still place yourself under law.
The command do not covet has not stopped one person from committing sin. It never will, it was never intended to do such a thing..
Again, What bvrings a person to the point of admiting his sin is not the issue, We all know it is the HS who convicts anyway.
No. I disagree. The law was in there DNA from the time they were created. As Paul said, even a gentile who was not given the law. Knows things are sin, And as he said in roman's, All people now bearing false witness is a sin, and All who do it are rightely judged, but they do it, and teach others to do it also.
Here is the difference, A non believer can obey a command, but it is self righteousness. A believe was given LOVE, and this LOVE has given him the ability to obey the command the way God intended it to be..
I am Not good because God wrote some law on my heart. I am a morally upright (not perfect) person, Because God loved me, and empowered me to do good.
No law will ever do that, in my heart, or on stone..
You put yourself back under law from the way i see it
Saying God wrote it on your heart and that is why it is different does not change the fact you still place yourself under law.
The command do not covet has not stopped one person from committing sin. It never will, it was never intended to do such a thing..
Well any wrong doing brings condemnation, but I don't mean that in the sense of damnation. The conscience condemns when wrong doing has occurred even to the depth of the thoughts and intents of the heart. How does the conscience know? It has the witness of law to judge by. But it is a living law, not a dead commandment.
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No. What is obvious is that everyone knows bearing false witness is a morally wrong thing to do. The christians, the pegans, even the Jews and Muslims.
It does not mean people do not willingly do it with no conscious moral sickening, Again (if you would read what I keep posting) Paul said they have hidden in their hearts what is sin, and thus God gave them over to a depraved mind,, They know its wrong, they know to do it causes them to be judged, BUT THEY DO NOT CARE..
WHAT? What does this have to do with knowing what sin is and who God is? Did you even read Romans 1? this is starting to get ridiculous.. Do you want to discuss this or not? Try to stick to the passage. Did paul lie or not??
God did circumcise our heart. He cleansed us, We could not, Have not, and will never be able to cleanse ourselves. That has NOTHING to do with the law or anything else.
I already found Christ, Maybe you need to find him? thats why you want to be under a tutor still?
I do not know.. Thus us all I can fathom by what your saying. The law does not make me look to Christ anymore. All it can do is bring fear in my life, because it continually exposes who I am. I am not going to be very helpful to God if I am continuously living in fear (or worse yet, like the legalist who denys they live in fear, or water down the law and think they are good people and no longer worthy of condemnation?
God did not give me a spirit of fear whereby I am a slave, he gave me a spirit of adoption. Where I cry outr abba Father..
I am going to be honest. Are you going to sit there and tell me a Christian needs to be continuously told that lieing is a sin? that coveting is a sin? That they need to be told all these things? Are you that forgetful you have to be reminded all the time?
Your not making any sense. Yes it is legalism when you do that. why? If you lie your condemned, so every time you lie, you are reminded you are condemned. So you have two choices. Deny you lied, or run from God who will judge you.
Which is exactly what I have witnessed and see in legalistic doctrines and people
They are perfect. and they had a purpose. Paul said when Christ came, the purpose was fulfilled.
Is it fulfilled in your life? or are you still following the thing which can never make you righteous (morally good) Which is it?? You want to follow the spirit or the law?
So is saying we are still under law, just because you say it is on our heart does not make it any less rubbish.
The fact that you think, as a child of God. thinks a command which says do not lust, is going to get you to stop lusting You have more problems than anyone here can help you with.
1. The command is not complete? What does God consider lusting to be? What are all possible conditions where I could be seen as falling in the sin of lust? I can not know this, and the command itself does not tell me this. So all it can possibly doe is cause me to give my OWN interpretation of what it means, and say I am not sinning, because I do not do this (which is exactly what Jesus claimed the pharisees did, and all legalists do)
2. You already know it is sin, You puff yourself up by saying you have to continually be reminded of it so you do not do it, which it will never stop you to begin with. (I grew up in your kind of legalism, so I know)
if you want to be burdened by the law or puff yourself up as better than you are (which I am sure you do not do, because I have not seen it) thats up to you.. I say this as a brother, because I can see no other reason to continually place yourself under law.
Again, No command ever stopped a person from sinning.
ps. every conversation about law is rediculous. But we keep having them, why is that? (it tells me satan is involved, and it is a very important topic. )
It does not mean people do not willingly do it with no conscious moral sickening, Again (if you would read what I keep posting) Paul said they have hidden in their hearts what is sin, and thus God gave them over to a depraved mind,, They know its wrong, they know to do it causes them to be judged, BUT THEY DO NOT CARE..
WHAT? What does this have to do with knowing what sin is and who God is? Did you even read Romans 1? this is starting to get ridiculous.. Do you want to discuss this or not? Try to stick to the passage. Did paul lie or not??
God did circumcise our heart. He cleansed us, We could not, Have not, and will never be able to cleanse ourselves. That has NOTHING to do with the law or anything else.
I already found Christ, Maybe you need to find him? thats why you want to be under a tutor still?
I do not know.. Thus us all I can fathom by what your saying. The law does not make me look to Christ anymore. All it can do is bring fear in my life, because it continually exposes who I am. I am not going to be very helpful to God if I am continuously living in fear (or worse yet, like the legalist who denys they live in fear, or water down the law and think they are good people and no longer worthy of condemnation?
God did not give me a spirit of fear whereby I am a slave, he gave me a spirit of adoption. Where I cry outr abba Father..
I am going to be honest. Are you going to sit there and tell me a Christian needs to be continuously told that lieing is a sin? that coveting is a sin? That they need to be told all these things? Are you that forgetful you have to be reminded all the time?
Your not making any sense. Yes it is legalism when you do that. why? If you lie your condemned, so every time you lie, you are reminded you are condemned. So you have two choices. Deny you lied, or run from God who will judge you.
Which is exactly what I have witnessed and see in legalistic doctrines and people
They are perfect. and they had a purpose. Paul said when Christ came, the purpose was fulfilled.
Is it fulfilled in your life? or are you still following the thing which can never make you righteous (morally good) Which is it?? You want to follow the spirit or the law?
So is saying we are still under law, just because you say it is on our heart does not make it any less rubbish.
The fact that you think, as a child of God. thinks a command which says do not lust, is going to get you to stop lusting You have more problems than anyone here can help you with.
1. The command is not complete? What does God consider lusting to be? What are all possible conditions where I could be seen as falling in the sin of lust? I can not know this, and the command itself does not tell me this. So all it can possibly doe is cause me to give my OWN interpretation of what it means, and say I am not sinning, because I do not do this (which is exactly what Jesus claimed the pharisees did, and all legalists do)
2. You already know it is sin, You puff yourself up by saying you have to continually be reminded of it so you do not do it, which it will never stop you to begin with. (I grew up in your kind of legalism, so I know)
if you want to be burdened by the law or puff yourself up as better than you are (which I am sure you do not do, because I have not seen it) thats up to you.. I say this as a brother, because I can see no other reason to continually place yourself under law.
Again, No command ever stopped a person from sinning.
ps. every conversation about law is rediculous. But we keep having them, why is that? (it tells me satan is involved, and it is a very important topic. )
You really need to get over all of this. Your whole post smacks of desperation and trying to get out of the mess you are in before others.
I know in my mind instinctively how God wants me to live and in my heart I want to obey. So I am led of satan, puffed up, a legalist, and under the law because I state that?
Well maybe you have no conviction before God you should not lie, steal, kill etc That's fine for you, but not me
The fact the law is within me does not make me better than anyone else, nor will I attain heaven based on obedience to it.
As soon as you see the word law mentioned you go beserk.
Once again, I have the scripture to back up my view, you do not.
So over to you to state once again I believe what I plainly don't
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You need to learn how to quote man, I am not going to keep on cutting out what you can not do yourself to try to respond to you.
You sound like the very legalists I see you continually bashing, why is that. Why would you want to put yoursel funder their yoke?
I do not need the law to tell me I am guilty, I KNOW IT. I knew it the moment I decided to humble myself and trust God. and the more I see about Gods character and Gods loving self. the more I realize how much of a sinner I am.
You use the same arguments they do (we must follow the ten commands) then you come bashing me as unlearned and ignorant, or I need to grow up or whatever,
Get over it. The law is not for us, A child of God knows he is in sin, he knows what he must do to stop it. And no law on earth is going to help him do that.
When God said he would give us a new heart, he did just that, Love flows from the heart. God awakened that part of the heart that was dead, he made it alive, and he made it new.
It is LOVE that causes us to seek after the things of the spirit. Not my love, Gods love. I am nothing, I am but a low child of God. God is everything, If I do not trust him to WORK IN ME. All I have left is law and obedience of my own power. which means I am dead. hopeless and pitiful..
You sound like the very legalists I see you continually bashing, why is that. Why would you want to put yoursel funder their yoke?
I do not need the law to tell me I am guilty, I KNOW IT. I knew it the moment I decided to humble myself and trust God. and the more I see about Gods character and Gods loving self. the more I realize how much of a sinner I am.
You use the same arguments they do (we must follow the ten commands) then you come bashing me as unlearned and ignorant, or I need to grow up or whatever,
Get over it. The law is not for us, A child of God knows he is in sin, he knows what he must do to stop it. And no law on earth is going to help him do that.
When God said he would give us a new heart, he did just that, Love flows from the heart. God awakened that part of the heart that was dead, he made it alive, and he made it new.
It is LOVE that causes us to seek after the things of the spirit. Not my love, Gods love. I am nothing, I am but a low child of God. God is everything, If I do not trust him to WORK IN ME. All I have left is law and obedience of my own power. which means I am dead. hopeless and pitiful..
So to recap your beliefs
Because I know God does not want me to murder, lie, steal, commit adultery etc, and because in my heart I don't want to do those things(but I do things I should not still, but am hit with a conscience when I do) I am a legalist, I am puffed up, led of satan, under the law, my Christianity is called into question.
Well that is very interesting I must say
You only know you are guilty because of the law, same as everyone else. You know you are a sinner through the law. The law is not for us?
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more Heb 10:16&17
A law of righteousness is not for the Christian. Thou shalt not steal, lie, bear false witness is.
Yep, we trust him to work in us. Nothing of ourselves
Only through the law can you become conscious of sin
Because I know God does not want me to murder, lie, steal, commit adultery etc, and because in my heart I don't want to do those things(but I do things I should not still, but am hit with a conscience when I do) I am a legalist, I am puffed up, led of satan, under the law, my Christianity is called into question.
Well that is very interesting I must say
You only know you are guilty because of the law, same as everyone else. You know you are a sinner through the law. The law is not for us?
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more Heb 10:16&17
A law of righteousness is not for the Christian. Thou shalt not steal, lie, bear false witness is.
Yep, we trust him to work in us. Nothing of ourselves
Only through the law can you become conscious of sin
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Besides it being a picture of the new birth you haven't told how the law was written on the heart? If a new heart is given why would there need to be an extra writing of the law on the new heart? Can't you see that the new heart is after God's nature?
Remember, you were first to take issue with my post, I have given you my reason several times and it still seems not to suffice.
I think you like to disagree just to disagree.
Remember, you were first to take issue with my post, I have given you my reason several times and it still seems not to suffice.
I think you like to disagree just to disagree.
If a Christian bears false witness, are they conscious of sin in regard to bearing false witness, or because they have failed to love as they should? If they are conscious of sin in regard to bearing false witness, that law has been written on their mind and placed on their heart
In regard to how the Holy Spirit places the law in your heart and mind. Well I admit to not understanding the whole working of how the Holy Spirit works. All I do know is, as soon as I became a Christian I was convicted of sin in my most inward parts, so he must have put the law within them.
The bible says the law is placed on our hearts and minds. If you have a problem with that, why bring it to me? Take it in prayer to God
No I don't just like to disagree, but as I am simply believing the plain words of scripture I wonder why others want to disagree with me
In regard to how the Holy Spirit places the law in your heart and mind. Well I admit to not understanding the whole working of how the Holy Spirit works. All I do know is, as soon as I became a Christian I was convicted of sin in my most inward parts, so he must have put the law within them.
The bible says the law is placed on our hearts and minds. If you have a problem with that, why bring it to me? Take it in prayer to God
No I don't just like to disagree, but as I am simply believing the plain words of scripture I wonder why others want to disagree with me
I understand what you say, and also what the bible states:
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more
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