Faith Alone?

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sparkman

Guest
Regarding the topic of faith alone, I'd recommend RC Sproul's book Faith Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine of Justification as well as James White's book called The God Who Justifies.

Sproul's book in particular caused me to totally change my outlook on Christianity.

It should be pointed out that if someone denies justification by faith alone, they are not an evangelical Christian. While I would not deny that some non-evangelicals are saved, evangelical Christianity pretty well defines essential Christianity and I would not attend a non-evangelical church personally. Evangelical churches include all Protestant churches by definition..at least all real ones...there may be some calling themselves Protestants who aren't evangelical but if they deny justification by faith alone, they aren't Protestants. Some of those teaching Pelagian/Finneyist doctrines are not Protestants by definition as they deny justification by faith alone. All cults would deny justification by faith alone too which should tell you something.

Justification by faith alone is a logical necessity. The main issue is that unconverted mankind has a nature that cannot please God, and so he cannot do any good works to merit or earn his salvation. He cannot do anything to restore the relationship and to eliminate the barrier of sin that stands between him and God. So, he really has nothing to offer God in that regard, and by necessity salvation is totally by grace and cannot be by works.

At salvation, the person receives a new nature when he is born from above or born again. This new nature wants to please God and does good works as a manifestation of this nature. The works are a fruit of salvation, and do not earn, merit, or continue salvation.

Some Christians think that seekers need to start acting like a Christian to become a Christian. This is basically what the faith+works = salvation view teaches.

It is true that repentance is part of faith, but this is more a change of mind which manifests itself later in actions. The person turns from sin and toward Christ. Faith encompasses this entire movement.

It's pretty obvious from the New Testament that individuals were saved in a moment of time..examples are the thief on the Cross, the 3000 saved on the day of Pentecost, and the Philippian jailer.

Anyways the above books are pretty good in this regard. There are a lot of statements which say that faith is what is required for salvation, and only a few that even mention works. Faith manifests itself in works. The faith is what comes first, and the works are a manifestation of that.

James reference to faith and works is talking about the KIND of faith which saves. Faith that does not manifest itself in good works won't save, because it is not a real faith. There is a fake, counterfeit faith and there is a real faith. A real faith manifests itself in good works. It is the kind of faith which results in receiving a new nature that wants to obey God.

I'd highly recommend the above books. Those who claim that salvation is not by faith alone have some real issues as they don't understand that the unconverted man cannot please God, so there's no way they could do good works to merit salvation to start with.
 
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sparkman

Guest
Regarding the point that individuals were saved in a moment of time, there was no time to manifest works so by necessity their salvation was by faith and not by works.

As well, there are tons of Scriptures that mention faith as the necessary condition for salvation, and nothing else is mentioned in those verses.

Like I said, faith includes within itself repentance, or a change of mind, as faith is the total movement...turning away from one's sinful, autonomous orientation and toward Christ and dependence on God for direction and guidance. However, this is a mental change that is later manifested in actions.
 
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Did you know that we by ourselves do not have Grace or Faith?

Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."

No one is righteous, no one understands God, no one SEEKS after God!

Its God who seeks us!

Our Faith is from God. Our Grace is from God. God has done everything for us.

All we are to do is accept what God has done for us.

Faith and Grace come first. Then we receive Salvation by Faith and Grace. Then we do Works because we have Faith and Grace and our Salvation.

We do not do works first to receive Faith and Grace because God has said "There is none who seeks after God".
 
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Hoffco

Guest
I just read some GREAT posts stating with Redtent,John,Seabass,Hoffco,Sparkman, and Mec99. Thank for your great insight. Sorry I didn't read it all, so I am sure I missed some other great posts; But you faith only error people, need to study harder.! God is going to be very hard in the judgement on men like R.C. Sproul and MacArthur, for saying Justification by faith alone. These great men of the WORD should be more careful. Love to all , Hoffco
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I just read some GREAT posts stating with Redtent,John,Seabass,Hoffco,Sparkman, and Mec99. Thank for your great insight. Sorry I didn't read it all, so I am sure I missed some other great posts; But you faith only error people, need to study harder.! God is going to be very hard in the judgement on men like R.C. Sproul and MacArthur, for saying Justification by faith alone. These great men of the WORD should be more careful. Love to all , Hoffco
Actually,

God is going to be very hard on people who add works to the gospel. He will tell them to depart. for he never knew them. no matter how many works in the name of God they did.

But if this is what you want to base your salvation and faith in. Thats up to you. all we can do is warn you.

 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I just read some GREAT posts stating with Redtent,John,Seabass,Hoffco,Sparkman, and Mec99. Thank for your great insight. Sorry I didn't read it all, so I am sure I missed some other great posts; But you faith only error people, need to study harder.! God is going to be very hard in the judgement on men like R.C. Sproul and MacArthur, for saying Justification by faith alone. These great men of the WORD should be more careful. Love to all , Hoffco
When you hear genuine believers say that we are saved by "faith alone," we are not saying that we are saved by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works - James 2:14-24. Saving faith results in producing good works, so it's not alone in that sense but it's still faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ "alone" for salvation that saves us as the instrumental means. (This means that we are trusting in Christ alone for salvation and not in our works). Good works are the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of saving faith in Christ, but they are not the instrumental means by which we receive eternal life as well.

The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith in "Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith IN CHRIST alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

I've had several discussions in the past with SeaBass (he has been banned) and he is thoroughly indoctrinated into church of Christ (Campbellism) theology. I at one time had attended the church of Christ so I understand how they try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith. Unfortunately, it sounds like you fell into the same trap. :( You can believe the gospel or you can pervert the gospel by adding works to it. The choice is yours. I hope and pray that one day you will make the right choice.
 
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YOU KNOW PAUL RIGHT...he was inspired of God and wrote almost half of the N.T.....he concluded that Abraham was justified (rendered legally innocent before God) by faith...WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW.......Eternal salvation, justification and sancrification come by and through Faith without the deeds of the law.....the works can only come after SONSHIP which is by birth...spiritual birth....THE WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS FOLLOW!

QUOTE=john832;1415321]Gen 26:3 Dwell in this land, and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I give all these lands, and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father.
Gen 26:4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed;
Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."[/QUOTE]
 

Crustyone

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2015
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Um no. Justifaction is salvation. We are saved BECAUSE we are justified, Not because we had more good works than we had bad works. that is the lie of satan.


We are justified by faith, and when we have faith, we call on the name of the lord. and at that time, we are justified (saved)
Please reread Romans 10:9-10. Justification is attained through belief that Christ was raised up from the dead by God. Salvation is attained from the act(work) of professing that faith. The two are attained from different means. Justification by a mental decision and salvation from a physical action. I didn't say that we needed more good works than bad works. I am aware that after our justification our bad works are not considered.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Please reread Romans 10:9-10. Justification is attained through belief that Christ was raised up from the dead by God. Salvation is attained from the act(work) of professing that faith. The two are attained from different means. Justification by a mental decision and salvation from a physical action. I didn't say that we needed more good works than bad works. I am aware that after our justification our bad works are not considered.
Rom 10:9-10 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (10) For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Out of the heart confession is made. The way you put it a mute person could never be saved because he cannot confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord.
Your weasel words have effectively turned salvation into a work we do.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 

Crustyone

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2015
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Actually,

God is going to be very hard on people who add works to the gospel. He will tell them to depart. for he never knew them. no matter how many works in the name of God they did.

But if this is what you want to base your salvation and faith in. Thats up to you. all we can do is warn you.
You keep thinking that the works, that those of us who say that we need to do, which are works of faith, are a work done to make ourselves morally better people in the sight of God. That is not what works of faith are. They are a work for God, to bring others to Him. We are not trying to make ourselves better, but trying to help others, as God commanded. To answer your last post, mutes can write or make other communication, and when you add the person who convinced him/her of the need to believe, that person is the one the mute or other disabled person confessed to and meets the requirement of confession.
 
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Crustyone

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2015
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Have to go now. I''ll check your next post tomorrow.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Anyone who knows his Bible will tell you that there are tree stages of Justification, Grace, Faith, and Works.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Just like there are three stages to our salvation.: past, present and future.
We will be saved is after death . The past is when God made us alive by His creative grace ,giving us the new birth. a new spirit ,a holy nature in implanted with in our soul. Now the present salvation is our godly living in the new power of our new heart and the power of God in our souls.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
There are three tenses to our salvation: Past. Present and Future.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Can any one ,out there relate to this truth? We are not completely saved! (on the new earth Yet. In the New Jerusalem) OK.? I for one, am not going to count my chicken before I set them on my table and eat them. I have had too many chickens stolen from my pen, before I eat them. The Devil will steal many from our church pews before they get to Heaven.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Now, all the "elect" of God will get to Heaven and only them, will make it, all the way.!! That is an eternal fact.. We can trust God to not lost any of His sheep.!!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Rom 10:9-10 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (10) For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Out of the heart confession is made. The way you put it a mute person could never be saved because he cannot confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord. Your weasel words have effectively turned salvation into a work we do.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Amen! Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. It's not believe today (but still lost today) then confess next week and are finally saved next week.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
OK>! lets take all of Rom.10: 9-10 and believe it and do it by faith. 1. We must believe all about the LORD Jesus Christ, The Greek structure is making an emphasise on the LORD ,,Jesus Christ. There is no cheap ,faith only believing here ; the confession of mouth is to the LORDship of Jesus. We are making a public confession of our commitment to the Savior and LORD Jesus, the Christ, Jewish messiah. The context is against the ritual duties of the Jews or Gentiles ,as in works we must do to be saved. And the fact that those who believe on Jesus will not be ashamed to say so.!The passage to follow says; we must preach and people must call upon the LORD we preach. Our message is the Bible, the Jewish Book. The chapter closes ,and ch.11, by saying: the Gospel truth must be preached but the results will not happen, men will not confess the LORD without the calling of God making them alive, As the first 9 chps. taught, no one will come to Christ unless God gives them live from the deadness of their sin filled soul, as is taught
in all of Pauls writtings. God's Word.!
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Mailman dan, You are denying the many ways of the Holy Spirits' working in the life of sinners to lead them, step by step, to a real heart and life commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. I will not teach false steps to Christ as believing and receiving Jesus as Savior first and later , after much work of the Spirit , then the sinner is told they must now submit to the lordship of Jesus. This is the false dichotomy of a two step plan to get a believer really obeying Jesus as Lord. This is of the Devil.. We are fully committed to Jesus as Savior and Lord in one step of conversion. I hope this is what you means by ,a one step salvation. God worked thru some very faulty preaches to get me saved. But when God was ready to save me it was a once for all confession of Jesus as my Savior and Lord.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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We are fully committed to Jesus as Savior and Lord in one step of conversion. I hope this is what you means by ,a one step salvation.
Amen! One step conversion. :)