A
Are Sex Offenders a liability to Churches?
- Thread starter LesserThanAll
- Start date
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All open sin that is allowed to sit in the pew week after week, and serve in ministry unrepented of will hurt any church. That is why so many churches fail...because leadership do not step up to the plate and do the biblical thing concerning church discipline.
When people turn a blind eye to sin, the flock becomes polluted and holiness becomes diluted. It is up to the leaders in any fellowship to keep a lookout for open and continued unrepentant people in the assembly. A church that guards the hearts of the flock is a good, solid church.
As for sex offenders, in our church everyone and anyone whop desires to work with children must be a member of the congregation first, and must present a police check before they are considered. It's a good practice.
.
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A
AnneNoel
Guest
Yeah. I'm not condoning any sex offense. I personally think rape is a good reason for Capitol punishment but I know a few people who are now sex offenders for insane reasons.
i have a cousin who spent time for messing with a minor. What he did was totally wrong yet the girl gets off free. And she has been known for messing with older men and then getting them in trouble. Nothing happens to her.
A
AnneNoel
Guest
Matthew 5:27-28
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
That's about a 99% gotcha rate for men, I would think. I haven't taken a poll or anything but you don't have to be around men for too long to know its true.
As far as our hearts go, all men need the Lord Jesus Christ. Specifically in this area. I wouldn't dare be able to single you out, as you have done to yourself...
All I can say is thank the Lord Jesus Christ for cleansing us and making us something that HE can be proud of.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
That's about a 99% gotcha rate for men, I would think. I haven't taken a poll or anything but you don't have to be around men for too long to know its true.
As far as our hearts go, all men need the Lord Jesus Christ. Specifically in this area. I wouldn't dare be able to single you out, as you have done to yourself...
All I can say is thank the Lord Jesus Christ for cleansing us and making us something that HE can be proud of.
M
Miri
Guest
Hi Less,
Sorry I haven't read all the posts on the thread. I'm glad though that you had the
courage to admit your past, I knew as soon as I saw your first post
that you were a sex offender. I was shown it in my spirit. Some things God reveals
about us without us even saying anything.
I do know of a local church where there is a ex sex offender in attendance, a born again
Christian. Everyone in leadership knows about it, and of his own will he also told the
entire congregation.
He is not allowed to be involved directly or indirectly with any of the children's work.
He purposely does not sit near any children in church meetings and he fully puts himself
under the authority of the leadership. He is forgiven and is an active member of the church
but because of the nature of the offence, the church has a duty of care. It's not necessarily
that they won't forgive, it's that they have to be careful. A born again Christian would
fully understand this and be willing to be under the authority of the leadership.
My own church has several ex offenders, not specifically sex offenders, but people who
have been involved in other crimes and the church is active in teen challenge work.
Again there is also accountability for these people, still have to be careful with
even other kinds of crime that the people involved are not put in a position to
influence children or other vulnerable people etc. I think people forget that care
needs to be taken with other kinds of offenders also.
I know because I have seen it first hand, of the amazing way God changes such lives.
So there is mercy and forgiveness in Christ for the genuine born again Christian.
I think it is important for such people to be open and honest and if they are genuine
they won't have any problems with this.
I'm not sure why but I feel a little uneasy about you, but I'm sorry if I am wrong here.
Romans 8:1-2 AMP
[1] THEREFORE, there is now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those
who are in Christ Jesus, who live and walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after
the dictates of the Spirit. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life which is in Christ Jesus the
law of our new being has freed me from the law of sin and of death.
M
Miri
Guest
Lesser, sorry have now read through your comments.
I note in your orignal introduction thread you said ask me anything you like.
May I therefore ask who your offences were against. One of the reasons
for asking this is I think for some time at least, that you should avoid
accepting friendship requests from this category of people.
I honestly think that you need to consider putting a comment on your
profile to explain you are an ex sex offender and are therefore not accepting
friendship requests from that category of people. Also include a brief
testimony to explain how you became a Christian.
This is not to cause you to feel bad or put more shame onto you.
I just feel that you need to be fully accountable on CC if you are
going to involve yourself in this on line community. Also with the
passage of time this thread will quickly run off the screen so not everyone
will see this thread and be aware of your comments.
I think it would also be good for you to introduce yourself to the moderators
and also Robocop who runs this site.
Again, not because you are not forgiven, but for accountability, I hope you
will understand.
God bless.
I note in your orignal introduction thread you said ask me anything you like.
May I therefore ask who your offences were against. One of the reasons
for asking this is I think for some time at least, that you should avoid
accepting friendship requests from this category of people.
I honestly think that you need to consider putting a comment on your
profile to explain you are an ex sex offender and are therefore not accepting
friendship requests from that category of people. Also include a brief
testimony to explain how you became a Christian.
This is not to cause you to feel bad or put more shame onto you.
I just feel that you need to be fully accountable on CC if you are
going to involve yourself in this on line community. Also with the
passage of time this thread will quickly run off the screen so not everyone
will see this thread and be aware of your comments.
I think it would also be good for you to introduce yourself to the moderators
and also Robocop who runs this site.
Again, not because you are not forgiven, but for accountability, I hope you
will understand.
God bless.
K
Kaycie
Guest
At one congregation I had seen another member there on the sex offenders list for child molestation. I spoke to the elders about it. They already knew, and said they keep an eye on him. He is not allowed to teach or run the nursery. I kept an eye on my child, and she was definitely not allowed to spend the night with his kids. I told my child not to be in the same room as him alone- if during potluck he goes in the kitchen to put a cup in the sink, walk out immediately, even if he's talking to you.
It takes maturity, but Christ's blood is powerful enough to wash away any sin. Everyone has the right to obey God. As far as it depends on us, we need to be wise as serpents, yet gentle as doves. I forgave him, but I'm not going to let him near my child, even if protecting her SEEMS rude to him.
It takes maturity, but Christ's blood is powerful enough to wash away any sin. Everyone has the right to obey God. As far as it depends on us, we need to be wise as serpents, yet gentle as doves. I forgave him, but I'm not going to let him near my child, even if protecting her SEEMS rude to him.
M
Mitspa
Guest
I know one thing for sure...some of the folks on this forum will never get within a 100 ft of the children God puts under my care...
This is exactly what I warned about, way back at the beginning. We "good" Christians jump at the worst thing we can think about a person without even asking. Do you know that viewing porn can be prosecuted as a sex crime?
I ran across a case some years back where two under age children had sex (with one another) and we good people prosecuted them both as Child Molesters, and they both ended up on "The List."
The question is unanswerable. Before it can be answered we must ask what is meant by a sex offender, and what is meant by a liability.
A sex offender can be anything from a french kisser, with her full approval, of an only just underage girl (who in Biblical times might well have been married and had children), to someone who hugs such a girl and can be accused of having 'touched her', to someone who is an out and out unrepentant paedophile.
The church certainly has a responsibility to protect the children in its care, which must come first. But they also have a responsibility for truly repentant sinners. We are to welcome repentant sinners. But we must still take into account what sins they have committed. Anyone even tainted with sexual mispractise (whether legally or not) should not be allowed in a position of leadership, nor should they be put in a place where they have responsibility for children, or indeed for vulnerable adults. But the leadership should determine what the exact position of the offender is, and deal accordingly.
Forgiveness is free for all, but the dangers the sinner might present to others must be fully taken into account. The truly repentant sinner will be only too ready to admit their faults and their weaknesses and fall in line with any reasonable requirements.
Christ Himself warned of the dangers facing any who cause children who believe in Him to stumble. We must do all we can to make sure that does not happen where it is in our power to do so, or we too will be found guilty.
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A non-believer I think a lot of wrote this decades ago. It is probably the first thing I read that helped me see that I am not as righteous as many of us think we are. (Yes, I know this whole thing will offend Mitspa and a few others, also, but I found it amazing that a man we call a Heathen could have such insight about how God sees us, and still not see God, Himself.)
On Crime & Punishment
Then one of the judges of the city stood forth and said, "Speak to us of Crime and Punishment."
And he answered saying:
It is when your spirit goes wandering upon the wind,
That you, alone and unguarded, commit a wrong unto others and therefore unto yourself.
And for that wrong committed must you knock and wait a while unheeded at the gate of the blessed.
Like the ocean is your god-self;
It remains for ever undefiled.
And like the ether it lifts but the winged.
Even like the sun is your god-self;
It knows not the ways of the mole nor seeks it the holes of the serpent.
But your god-self does not dwell alone in your being.
Much in you is still man, and much in you is not yet man,
But a shapeless pigmy that walks asleep in the mist searching for its own awakening.
And of the man in you would I now speak.
For it is he and not your god-self nor the pigmy in the mist, that knows crime and the punishment of crime.
Oftentimes have I heard you speak of one who commits a wrong as though he were not one of you, but a stranger unto you and an intruder upon your world.
But I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you,
So the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.
And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree,
So the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all.
Like a procession you walk together towards your god-self.
You are the way and the wayfarers.
And when one of you falls down he falls for those behind him, a caution against the stumbling stone.
Ay, and he falls for those ahead of him, who though faster and surer of foot, yet removed not the stumbling stone.
And this also, though the word lie heavy upon your hearts:
The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder,
And the robbed is not blameless in being robbed.
The righteous is not innocent of the deeds of the wicked,
And the white-handed is not clean in the doings of the felon.
Yea, the guilty is oftentimes the victim of the injured,
And still more often the condemned is the burden-bearer for the guiltless and unblamed.
You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;
For they stand together before the face of the sun even as the black thread and the white are woven together.
And when the black thread breaks, the weaver shall look into the whole cloth, and he shall examine the loom also.
If any of you would bring judgment the unfaithful wife,
Let him also weight the heart of her husband in scales, and measure his soul with measurements.
And let him who would lash the offender look unto the spirit of the offended.
And if any of you would punish in the name of righteousness and lay the ax unto the evil tree, let him see to its roots;
And verily he will find the roots of the good and the bad, the fruitful and the fruitless, all entwined together in the silent heart of the earth.
And you judges who would be just,
What judgment pronounce you upon him who though honest in the flesh yet is a thief in spirit?
What penalty lay you upon him who slays in the flesh yet is himself slain in the spirit?
And how prosecute you him who in action is a deceiver and an oppressor,
Yet who also is aggrieved and outraged?
And how shall you punish those whose remorse is already greater than their misdeeds?
Is not remorse the justice which is administered by that very law which you would fain serve?
Yet you cannot lay remorse upon the innocent nor lift it from the heart of the guilty.
Unbidden shall it call in the night, that men may wake and gaze upon themselves.
And you who would understand justice, how shall you unless you look upon all deeds in the fullness of light?
Only then shall you know that the erect and the fallen are but one man standing in twilight between the night of his pigmy-self and the day of his god-self,
And that the corner-stone of the temple is not higher than the lowest stone in its foundation.
On Crime & Punishment
Then one of the judges of the city stood forth and said, "Speak to us of Crime and Punishment."
And he answered saying:
It is when your spirit goes wandering upon the wind,
That you, alone and unguarded, commit a wrong unto others and therefore unto yourself.
And for that wrong committed must you knock and wait a while unheeded at the gate of the blessed.
Like the ocean is your god-self;
It remains for ever undefiled.
And like the ether it lifts but the winged.
Even like the sun is your god-self;
It knows not the ways of the mole nor seeks it the holes of the serpent.
But your god-self does not dwell alone in your being.
Much in you is still man, and much in you is not yet man,
But a shapeless pigmy that walks asleep in the mist searching for its own awakening.
And of the man in you would I now speak.
For it is he and not your god-self nor the pigmy in the mist, that knows crime and the punishment of crime.
Oftentimes have I heard you speak of one who commits a wrong as though he were not one of you, but a stranger unto you and an intruder upon your world.
But I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you,
So the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.
And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree,
So the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all.
Like a procession you walk together towards your god-self.
You are the way and the wayfarers.
And when one of you falls down he falls for those behind him, a caution against the stumbling stone.
Ay, and he falls for those ahead of him, who though faster and surer of foot, yet removed not the stumbling stone.
And this also, though the word lie heavy upon your hearts:
The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder,
And the robbed is not blameless in being robbed.
The righteous is not innocent of the deeds of the wicked,
And the white-handed is not clean in the doings of the felon.
Yea, the guilty is oftentimes the victim of the injured,
And still more often the condemned is the burden-bearer for the guiltless and unblamed.
You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;
For they stand together before the face of the sun even as the black thread and the white are woven together.
And when the black thread breaks, the weaver shall look into the whole cloth, and he shall examine the loom also.
If any of you would bring judgment the unfaithful wife,
Let him also weight the heart of her husband in scales, and measure his soul with measurements.
And let him who would lash the offender look unto the spirit of the offended.
And if any of you would punish in the name of righteousness and lay the ax unto the evil tree, let him see to its roots;
And verily he will find the roots of the good and the bad, the fruitful and the fruitless, all entwined together in the silent heart of the earth.
And you judges who would be just,
What judgment pronounce you upon him who though honest in the flesh yet is a thief in spirit?
What penalty lay you upon him who slays in the flesh yet is himself slain in the spirit?
And how prosecute you him who in action is a deceiver and an oppressor,
Yet who also is aggrieved and outraged?
And how shall you punish those whose remorse is already greater than their misdeeds?
Is not remorse the justice which is administered by that very law which you would fain serve?
Yet you cannot lay remorse upon the innocent nor lift it from the heart of the guilty.
Unbidden shall it call in the night, that men may wake and gaze upon themselves.
And you who would understand justice, how shall you unless you look upon all deeds in the fullness of light?
Only then shall you know that the erect and the fallen are but one man standing in twilight between the night of his pigmy-self and the day of his god-self,
And that the corner-stone of the temple is not higher than the lowest stone in its foundation.
You are welcome 
I love that man and what he wrote in that book
Especially on Love:
Then said Almitra, Speak to us of Love.
And he raised his head and looked upon the people,
and there fell a stillness upon them.
And with a great voice he said:
When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams
as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest
branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them
in their clinging to the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant:
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire,
that you may become sacred bread for God`s sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you
that you may know the secrets of your heart,
and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life`s heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only
love`s peace and love`s pleasure,
Then it is better for you
that you cover your nakedness and
pass out of love`s threshing floor,
Into the seasonless world where you
shall laugh, but not all of your laughter,
and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself,
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed:
For love is sufficient unto love.
When you love you should not say,
"God is in my heart," but rather,
"I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course
of love, for love, if it finds you worthy,
directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart
and give thanks for another day of loving:
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love`s ecstasy:
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in you heart
and a song of praise upon you lips.
I love that man and what he wrote in that book Especially on Love:
Then said Almitra, Speak to us of Love.
And he raised his head and looked upon the people,
and there fell a stillness upon them.
And with a great voice he said:
When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams
as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest
branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them
in their clinging to the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant:
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire,
that you may become sacred bread for God`s sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you
that you may know the secrets of your heart,
and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life`s heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only
love`s peace and love`s pleasure,
Then it is better for you
that you cover your nakedness and
pass out of love`s threshing floor,
Into the seasonless world where you
shall laugh, but not all of your laughter,
and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself,
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed:
For love is sufficient unto love.
When you love you should not say,
"God is in my heart," but rather,
"I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course
of love, for love, if it finds you worthy,
directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart
and give thanks for another day of loving:
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love`s ecstasy:
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in you heart
and a song of praise upon you lips.
You seem to take a pretty consistent and unyielding stance that these people should be locked out. You've implied that they should not be welcomed in church and that a church that does welcome them is not a real church. I'm just wondering if there is a point at which you would ever drop this wall and take one in.