Are we sinners?

[Grace777x70]

Nobody is denying that the gospel has the power to change....I was telling you what I believe and listen to in order to effect change...that's all..

So, you wrote that ( hypothetically ) you had an affair with a man..and it is stopping your growth..well stop doing it then and walk in who you are in Christ now.....talk all that stuff over with your Lord...come to Him boldly to the throne of grace...

Repent of trying to get "life" from a man instead of the Lord. He is your provider for all things. Ask Him to bring the godly person into your life to help you in this life to serve the Lord and to get to know Him more.

The so-called affair is a symptom of trying to get from an outside source what only God can provide.

Then just thank Him for bringing the person you need into your life.

Who is denying the Gospel has the power to change lives?

But do you always follow after the Holy Spirit?

You didn't address what I wrote

 

[kathryn]

Nobody is denying that the gospel has the power to change....I was telling you what I believe and listen to in order to effect change...that's all..

So, you wrote that ( hypothetically ) you had an affair with a man..and it is stopping your growth..well stop doing it then and walk in who you are in Christ now.....talk all that stuff over with your Lord...come to Him boldly to the throne of grace...

Repent of trying to get "life" from a man instead of the Lord. He is your provider for all things. Ask Him to bring the godly person into your life to help you in this life to serve the Lord and to get to know Him more.

The so-called affair is a symptom of trying to get from an outside source what only God can provide.

Then just thank Him for bringing the person you need into your life.

The point was, the following only works-it can only be followed when you are following after the Holy Spirit, not when you are not.



'''I heard that there are 613 of them!..wowsers!

I don't consider the law at all... I do know that Jesus fulfilled the law..I'm in Him and I know that His love in me will cover whatever is in the law..so it's a non-issue with me....doesn't even enter into my mind actually...'''

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I heard that there are 613 of them!..wowsers!

I don't consider the law at all... I do know that Jesus fulfilled the law..I'm in Him and I know that His love in me will cover whatever is in the law..so it's a non-issue with me....doesn't even enter into my mind actually...

I did not ask you if you followed the law

I asked you if you understood you still fell short of the standard demanded by the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's fine as long as you are following after the Holy Spirit, but what happens if you step outside of that?

I become a Christian, God has 100 issues that need dealing with in my life. He is going to start with the most serious. Should I start fretting about number 99&100 not having been dealt with, and be burdened down by guilt because they haven't? Of course not, I am allowing God to change me as He wants to, so I am following after the Holy Spirit, no condemnation, Jesus died for my shortcomings. No need to think of or concentrate on any laws.
But what happens if I meet a good looking man, strike up a friendship with him and end up having an affair with him?
Then I cannot say, everything is fine because Jesus died for my sins can I. I am going to be burdened by the fact I am not living as God wants me to, then the law if you like will hurt me. I am not then following after the Holy Spirit and allowing God to bring me to live more as he wants me to. My continued growth is blocked

I would not say it was the law brdening you

I would say

1. It is the HOLY SPIRIT chastening you
2. You are feeling the natural result and pain one suffers when he or she is in sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did Jesus hate the righteous?

Listening to some hear you would think Jesus is condemning righteous people.

what? Who is saying this?

 

[KJV1611]

Are there any verses in the bible that say the outward man is renewed or redeemable or gets better?

 

[PeterJens]

No, You do not understand at all. Stop trying to think you understand, and just listen.

You sound like a tadpole in a pond saying this is the only pond that ever existed, my definition is the only definition that is valid.

Language is only a means of conveying a set of ideas. I understand your definition but disagree. Telling me this one interpretation is it, does not change the fact I understand your point. Love is not just sacrificial. That is agape love.
There is sexual, brotherly, parental etc. Now the depths of God's love, how he expresses it, its vastness, and complexity we merely scrap the surface. It blew my mind 30+ years ago and changed me.

Now you want me to limit my words and definitions to yours, but that denies the gifts God has given me. Am I sinning by expressing and defining love in the way I am? Am I being truthful that love is expressed everywhere in the world?

So your position is flawed, empty. It is you who are too small minded or charitable to non-believers or acknowledging the work God does in everybody, sinner or saint. It is often this love, dormant and repressed that warms when Jesus comes near and people reach out to Him. If you were an evangelist you would realise this is the call to life we offer, the thing we all desire that draws us to Jesus, the ultimate Father and friend to us all.

Your essential emotional demeanor is not to encourage but demean me and my sharing. Walking in the Lord is hardest in front of fellow believers, especially those who claim authority in the church, which you do. To those who claim such authority a higher mark and example is expected. I would not seek counsel from you, at any time, with the level of failures in basic life understanding which you are displaying.

 

[Grace777x70]

The outward man being the body seems like for sure it's going....it seems us men get looking more "monkey-like" as we age..



2 Corinthians 4:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

Are there any verses in the bible that say the outward man is renewed or redeemable or gets better?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You sound like a tadpole in a pond saying this is the only pond that ever existed, my definition is the only definition that is valid.

Dude, do you ever even contemplate the things your saying

I gave what I believe, and you responded calling me arrogant, when you did not even (even though you thought you did ) understand what I believe.


try to find some humility, Then come back to me and explain what I believe, then we can have a normal discussion.

Otherwise, all you prove is your an arrogant person who thinks they know it all

This was your response to me.

I understand your way of building definitions in your language. Love is a positive feeling towards the object of love. This attitude has few limits. It is used throughout society to express this attitude towards things like I love that song, I love sweets, I love money, I love beauty, I love nature, I love God, I love my wife etc.

Now each person adds to their love of things by actions, or ways of expressing it, or devotion to the thing which defines what they will or not do because of it.

So when you say there is pseudo love, you are saying a particular way of expressing love in God has certain characteristics which some people who have faith do not seem to express.

Absolutely nothing of what you said here is even close to what I believe or was saying..

Can you admit that in humility, or are we at a crossroads which can never be crossed, because you will continue to think you know what I believe when you do not even come close?

 

[Grace777x70]

I do not even consider the law.....what happens is that the life inside of me "directs" me to do whatever the situation requires ( this to me is where grace teaches us ).....I talk over everything with the Lord....look for guidance....etc.

Maybe I am not getting what you asked....if not....then give me a scenario and I will answer it..

I did not ask you if you followed the law

I asked you if you understood you still fell short of the standard demanded by the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not even consider the law.....what happens is that the life inside of me "directs" me to do whatever the situation requires ( this to me is where grace teaches us ).....I talk over everything with the Lord....look for guidance....etc.

Maybe I am not getting what you asked....if not....then give me a scenario and I will answer it..

roms 3: 23, does that still apply to you? Do you still fall short of the glory of god.

And maybe this will help. If it does not apply to you, You are sinless perfect.

Rom 7, Does that apply to you (or are you like some one else who is no longer here)

So are you perfect? (not positionally, but conditionally)?

 

[KJV1611]

The outward man being the body seems like for sure it's going....it seems us men get looking more "monkey-like" as we age..



2 Corinthians 4:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

Is Paul talking about the body in Romans 7 or is he talking about the outward man?

Romans 7:22-23 KJV
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: [23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members..

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..of course we all fall short of the glory of God..and we will until we get our new bodies..we have the flesh, the devil and the world that is constantly at us..

roms 3: 23, does that still apply to you? Do you still fall short of the glory of god.

And maybe this will help. If it does not apply to you, You are sinless perfect.

Rom 7, Does that apply to you (or are you like some one else who is no longer here)

So are you perfect? (not positionally, but conditionally)?

 

[Grace777x70]

body..

Romans 7:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

Is Paul talking about the body in Romans 7 or is he talking about the outward man?

Romans 7:22-23 KJV
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: [23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL..of course we all fall short of the glory of God..and we will until we get our new bodies..we have the flesh, the devil and the world that is constantly at us..

Then you just admitted, Your a sinner (according to the law) who is saved (from the curse of the law) By Grace..

Thanks

 

[KJV1611]

body..

Romans 7:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

The flesh and blood human body isn't sintient, how can flesh, blood and bones affect the law of a persons mind? Or how does the human body wage war against our minds?

 

[kathryn]

The flesh and blood human body isn't sintient, how can flesh, blood and bones affect the law of a persons mind? Or how does the human body wage war against our minds?

You're kidding right?

I walk down the street and see a real hunk of a man. In my mind I know I should not think impurely concerning him, for I am a Christian, but the members of my body say differently

 

[Grace777x70]

ROFL

I carry my wife's purse sometimes but it doesn't make me a woman...just sayin'


That was a funny one! I liked it....

Then you just admitted, Your a sinner (according to the law) who is saved (from the curse of the law) By Grace..

Thanks

 

[NayborBear]

Once a person is born into the family of God (indwelt by the Holy Spirit) should we still consider ourselves sinners?

In the eyes of God, the Father? NO!! We have been Redeemed IN CHRIST! In our "own" eyes, or, when looking at others? To be sure, a "believer" COULD find "fault" (in doing the devil's work for him, as the "accuser"), in EVERY believer. As to what this does to "that" believer, leads to the "holier then THOU", mindset!.......Or?........."SELF"-righteousness. Something about "straining a gnat, and, swallowing a camel", comes to mind.....Think, I'll go vote in the poll now.......lol

 

[PeterJens]

Otherwise, all you prove is your an arrogant person who thinks they know it all

I remember my wife telling me she run a biological practical with a group of teachers from higher schools.
Now this one lady thought she understood how ameoba worked and stated something that was wrong.
They were looking at behaviour down the microscope to show what actually happened.

So my wife said simply, "Look down the microscope and tell me what you see."
The answer was "I do not need to, I know what is going on"

Christians often study the bible and come to conclusions in isolation of real life. Rather than the bible being a commentary on life and how we deal with things, they use it to define life in isolation. Once you do this the open ended nature of the phrases and ideas means you can go nuts, literally.

So if you are not prepared to talk about life and what we know and experience the conversation with Jesus stops and with me because there is nothing to say. You live in your bubble and it is never going to change, because everything involved is static and fixed. Whatever keeps you in this prison must be very powerful to you, but it is not of the Lord.

I am not being arrogant, I am just sharing realities. If you cannot engage at this level, you have no answer.
It is arrogant to simply dismiss and not engage, but that is your affair. I am not sure how being open to discussion is not being humble, but your definition of being humble appears to be to just agree with you.

I do not define what you believe, I am just reading what you wrote, unless you are writing lies, and what you write is not what you believe. I would suggest you fail to express your faith in words very well, which is why you are surprised at my response.

By the way a "know it all" defence is actually to admit defeat. So thank you for this, though I know you did not mean that.
If you want to be so outspoken you have to take the challenges properly. But you do not have the capacity.

Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.
Mark 13:11