misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

[fordman]

I was baptized in a Catholic church when I was a baby and again baptized in my wife's Baptized church when I was in my twenties and now I attend no Church. I just believe in the Holy Bible but feel no loyalty to any one church.

See Eph. 4:5

What does that make me?

Catholic!

Remember, you will always be welcomed home to the Catholic Church, anytime, and anywhere in the world. The doors will always be open for you, and your wife. I suggest checking out the web-site, Catholics Come Home |
　
　

Pax Christi
　
　
　

 

[Crustyone]

I see no way that Mary could even hear prayer since no one has gone into heaven except Jesus, as stated in John 3:13 (13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.) and the first resurrection doesn't occur until the beginning on the Millennial reign, which means that no one has gone into heaven yet except Jesus. The parable of Lazarus does not indicate that anyone in Hades can hear or see anyone in the physical world, if that would be the supposed means of communicating with Mary.

 

[bikerchaz]

I am a devout Catholic. I am curious what you find out what you think are the most difficult teachings of the Catholic Church.

I don't want to get into any discussions on this thread, I just want to hear from you personally what you disagree with from a theological perspective so I can know where to focus my studies.

try not to read other peoples responses until you have posted. Also try to list them in order with the teachings that you believe are least likely to be scripturaly supported at top.

The things I find most difficult with common protestant theology is
1) sola fide,
2) sola scriptura,
3) and the lack of infant baptism.

Hi, and greetings in Jesus name. If you are truly seeking what the difference is, then why are you not going to the "author and finisher of our faith". Jesus is as real as the weather outside your window and the clothes you wear every day, this is not a flippant remark it is like gravity holding you down, it just is or I should say He just is.
I could go into all sorts of biblical references and stuff but the Holy Spirit does not want me to elevate conflict.
Jesus died on the cross at Calvary about 2000 years ago. "All things are made by Him and through Him and without Him was not anyhing made", "He holds all things together by His will", you know, these last statements hold so much information when you look at them and Gods creation. The stars and their courses, the millions of universes we can now see through our telescopes, and our own solar system, WOW God made all these things, it is well documented that we ourselves are made of star dust formed when supernova's explode and new elements are formed and thrown out into space and it is all bound up with the words "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". The upshot is, and the answer to your question is, What does Jesus say about it? He is as real as it comes, and if you go to Him, He will answer. It is His church after all not mine or ours. In your minds eye go to the foot of the cross and kneel before him. do not go into a church, do it in the privacy of your own bedroom or parlour, shut the door and make sure you will not be disturbed for a few hours, in truth go to Him, in the truth of your human frailty go to Jesus, only Him, no one else. Be honest to Jesus about your failings your fears, feelings, your wants and needs. Focus all your strength might and will on Jesus, and be more honest than you have ever been in your life. Forget all and everything you have been taught or shown only to focus on Jesus, His shoulders are big enough to handle your burden and He will not be offended as long as you go to Him in truth.
Jesus will answer!!!
The net question is, what are you going to do with what He tells you? The ball is in your court.

 

[bikerchaz]

I have just posted my answer to the original question before I started reading through the replies. some of them are ok some of them are not, some of the replies are from a personal point of view and some are prompted by the Holy spirit. But they seem to have gotten out of control and led to a slanging match.
If you have not been prompted by the Holy Spirit to answer the question and have done so without prayer, the replies you get to your post will be the same. Jesus has not and will not say against any one or anything which is why He gave us the parable of the wheat and the weeds (tares) and the snuffing out of the candles, (don't they stink when not put out properly?). We all have a responsibility to answer all questions honestly and to give account of our faith when necessary. This is done in love and truth, not back handed and slyly, not in competition or to get the upper hand over someone else because Jesusness is not shown in those replies only the intentions of the adversary to confuse and intimidate.

 

[epostle]

I see no way that Mary could even hear prayer since no one has gone into heaven except Jesus, as stated in John 3:13 (13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.) and the first resurrection doesn't occur until the beginning on the Millennial reign, which means that no one has gone into heaven yet except Jesus. The parable of Lazarus does not indicate that anyone in Hades can hear or see anyone in the physical world, if that would be the supposed means of communicating with Mary.

John 3:13 doesn't say no one has gone into heaven except Jesus, it means no one could enter heaven until after the Ascension, which is exactly what happened. They were waiting in the Bossom of Abraham. Context:

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g]14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

("lifted up" foreshadows the Crucifixion, because the bronze serpent that Moses lifted up did not ascend.)

I'm afraid soul sleep is at odds with 99% of Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant. It is a JW teaching.

Second, you are re-writing the parable of Lazarus and claiming it says the opposite. Luke 16:19-31 is quite explicit that the dead rich man can see and hear, for he shows concern for his 5 brothers.

Luke 16:19-31 in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

Jesus said that he is the true vine, and we are the branches. When a Christian (one branch) dies physically and is taken up into heaven (he might have to go through purgatory first, of course), he isn’t broken off the vine. He remains in Christ (Rom 8:38-39). The deceased Christian is still united with the vine (Jesus) and with the other branches (all other Christians, living or dead). This communion of saints makes possible the sharing spiritual things with other Christians—including intercessory prayer.
Praying to the Saints

"Pray" in the older sense does not mean "worship", but language has changed and "pray" means "worship" to many people. This can cause a lot of confusion.
Why do Catholics pray to Mary?

 

[Vdp]

I find it so sad and evil that when a Catholic tries to justify their teaching that Mary is our Mediator by the teachings of the Catholic Church and not Scriptures from God.

What this proves is the Catholics hate the very Word of God and favor the teachings of Satan as their Truths.

Do you not see fordman that you are not fighting against us, you are actually fighting against God?

How you may ask?

By teaching as Doctrine the commandments of men you are fighting against God.

Matthew 15:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
Your Heart is from from God fordman. Because your Heart is far from God in Vain you worship God fordman. God cannot and will not listen to your prayers fordman. Because you are teaching that Mary is our Mediator God has refused to listen to your prayers.

There is nothing worse in this World then God refusing to listen to your prayers fordman.

May God have mercy on your Soul fordman.

 

[epostle]

Hi, and greetings in Jesus name. If you are truly seeking what the difference is, then why are you not going to the "author and finisher of our faith". Jesus is as real as the weather outside your window and the clothes you wear every day, this is not a flippant remark it is like gravity holding you down, it just is or I should say He just is.
I could go into all sorts of biblical references and stuff but the Holy Spirit does not want me to elevate conflict.
Jesus died on the cross at Calvary about 2000 years ago. "All things are made by Him and through Him and without Him was not anyhing made", "He holds all things together by His will", you know, these last statements hold so much information when you look at them and Gods creation. The stars and their courses, the millions of universes we can now see through our telescopes, and our own solar system, WOW God made all these things, it is well documented that we ourselves are made of star dust formed when supernova's explode and new elements are formed and thrown out into space and it is all bound up with the words "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". The upshot is, and the answer to your question is, What does Jesus say about it? He is as real as it comes, and if you go to Him, He will answer. It is His church after all not mine or ours. In your minds eye go to the foot of the cross and kneel before him. do not go into a church, do it in the privacy of your own bedroom or parlour, shut the door and make sure you will not be disturbed for a few hours, in truth go to Him, in the truth of your human frailty go to Jesus, only Him, no one else. Be honest to Jesus about your failings your fears, feelings, your wants and needs. Focus all your strength might and will on Jesus, and be more honest than you have ever been in your life. Forget all and everything you have been taught or shown only to focus on Jesus, His shoulders are big enough to handle your burden and He will not be offended as long as you go to Him in truth.
Jesus will answer!!!
The net question is, what are you going to do with what He tells you? The ball is in your court.

First, your last 2 posts are rich and edifying and without rancor. You obviously have a deep, intimate relationship with Jesus and I enjoyed reading them.

Private devotion is necessary for growth, that is not what I question. It is individualism that has led to the privatization of Christianity, whereby it is little respected in societal and political life, leaving the "public square" barren of Christian influence. That leaves much to unpack.

The chief recognized forms of individualism are religious ethical, and political. Religious individualism describes the attitude of those persons who refuse to subscribe to definite creeds, or to submit to any external religious authority. Such are those who call themselves freethinkers, and those who profess to believe in Christianity without giving their adhesion to any particular denomination. In a less extreme sense all Protestants are individualists in religion, inasmuch as they regard their individual interpretation of the Bible as the final authority. The Protestant who places the articles of faith adopted by his denomination before his own private interpretation of the teaching of Scripture is not, indeed, a thorough-going individualist, but neither is he a logical Protestant. On the other hand, Catholics accept the voice of the Church as the supreme authority, and therefore reject outright the principle of religious individualism.
read more here

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[fordman]

I find it so sad and evil that when a Catholic tries to justify their teaching that Mary is our Mediator by the teachings of the Catholic Church and not Scriptures from God.

What this proves is the Catholics hate the very Word of God and favor the teachings of Satan as their Truths.

Do you not see fordman that you are not fighting against us, you are actually fighting against God?

How you may ask?

By teaching as Doctrine the commandments of men you are fighting against God.

Dude.... you really need to start paying attention to other peoples posts before you inflick your balderdash upon others! For example.... did you not read my post #472? I suggest you do so, payong close attention to the first sentence. You should also take notice of the first sentence of #970 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, fir it goes completely against the nonsence you are promoting. Sheessss..... dude! You do relize that lying against others is a sin don't you???


　
　
　
　

F.Y.I. The Catholic Church does not view Mary as a mediator. That role is for Jesus alone. All the saints in heaven, as well as living Christians, act as intercessors for one another. I think where you error, is beleiving Intercession and mediation are the same, but they are not, they are entirely two different things.

Lets take a look at what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about it.

970:
"Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. (pay close attention here Mec99) But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."[SUP] "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.""

Did you catch that Mec99? I think it's worth repeating.... "But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on HIS mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."

Now concerning 1Tim.2:5, many think that the practice of praying to the saints goes against the Bible, claiming that Catholics are making them mediators between God and man and thus diminishing Jesus‘ role as the sole mediator.But this is not an appropriate interpretation of the passage. Let‘s see why not…In the O.T. we see that Moses, Abraham, and Job interceded on behalf of others… that’s mediating between God and man. We know that it is okay to ask others here on earth to pray and intercede for us…. that’s mediating between God and man. So we have a situation here where a passage of the Bible is being misinterpreted and misunderstood.

There is only one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ, but as members of the Body of Christ, He allows us to share in His mediation.

Also, Scripture tells us that we have only one foundation, Jesus Christ (1 Cor 3:11); but, Scripture tells us that there is more than one foundation (Eph 2:19-20). Scripture tells us that we have only Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph 4:4-5); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one lord (Rev 19:16). Scripture tells us that we have only one Judge, Jesus Christ (James 4:12); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one judge (1 Cor 6:2).

These are not contradictions in Scripture, not when these passages are all properly understood in context. Jesus is the only foundation; Jesus is the only Lord; and Jesus is the only Judge. But, we are members of Jesus‘ Body. Therefore, we are able, according to the graces given by Christ, to share in Jesus‘ role as foundation, as lord, and as judge, and in other aspects of Christ, as well. Another example, a father shares in God‘s role as Father, by His grace. And, so also, we, and the saints in Heaven, and the angels in Heaven, can share in Christ‘s role as Mediator.---www.catholicscomehome.org

[/SUP]
[SUP]　
　

So Dude.... don't be sad for me, or worry to much for my soul, with you bearing false witness against others, it is your own soul you should be concerned about.




Pax Christi


[/SUP]

 

[notuptome]

Stop saying "Romanism", it's insulting as it is stupid. Your flaming zinger "self appointed authority" is also stupid, you can't name the person who self appointed. You are pontificating without evidence.

I hate to call it catholic because it's far from universal. It is in practice very exclusive.

Jesus never appointed a pope to run the church. My bible says that Jesus is the head of the church. Since Jesus lives there is no requirement to replace Him as the head of the church.

I am being accurate according to the facts of the matter. You are responding with hateful emotions and not reason or logic. I never really expect you to respond with scripture.

These verses, which have noting to do with sola scriptura, is used to somehow prove fordham is evil (because your false doctrine of sola scriptura cannot be defended). and you complain about self appointed authority.

Jesus gave a statement that applies to all men who reject the light of the gospel. There is a way which seemeth right to men but the end thereof is death.

Pr 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pr 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Your personal sniping aside all men must give account of what they have done with Christ. Not the church but Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Willie-T]

I hate to call it catholic because it's far from universal. It is in practice very exclusive.

Jesus never appointed a pope to run the church. My bible says that Jesus is the head of the church. Since Jesus lives there is no requirement to replace Him as the head of the church.

I am being accurate according to the facts of the matter. You are responding with hateful emotions and not reason or logic. I never really expect you to respond with scripture.

Jesus gave a statement that applies to all men who reject the light of the gospel. There is a way which seemeth right to men but the end thereof is death.

Pr 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pr 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Your personal sniping aside all men must give account of what they have done with Christ. Not the church but Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

A very reasoned, and reasonable explanation, Roger.

 

[fordman]

Pr 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pr 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

And once again notuptome, nowhere in these passages does it state that Sola Scriptura (Bible Alone) is sufficient for a sole rule of faith, and nowhere in Scripture does it even imply it. But by all means..... keep trying.
　

Pax Christi

 

[notuptome]

And once again notuptome, nowhere in these passages does it state that Sola Scriptura (Bible Alone) is sufficient for a sole rule of faith, and nowhere in Scripture does it even imply it. But by all means..... keep trying.

Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Not the councils of men but the word of God. The bible can not make sense to those who do not have the Holy Spirit in their heart. The Holy Spirit is only in the hearts of believers who have been born again. Not by their will but by the will of God.

Tell me did Jesus ever cite any rabbinical teachings or historians in His preaching ministry? When Jesus was in the temple with the teachers of the time did He reason with them about traditions or history? Scripture says Jesus taught from the scriptures with wisdom that they did not possess.

Mr 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[HQ]

And once again notuptome, nowhere in these passages does it state that Sola Scriptura (Bible Alone) is sufficient for a sole rule of faith, and nowhere in Scripture does it even imply it. But by all means..... keep trying.
　

So what should one believe when scripture and Catholic catechism conflict, and why?

 

[Vdp]

Its appalling that the Catholics equate their false teachings as being above the Truth from God.

If the Truth from God, the Scriptures, is not enough for your Faith then i really feel sorry for you.

Also no where in the Scriptures fordman does God say the Catholic Church has all the Truth.

Jesus is the Church, not the Catholic Church.

Jesus is the Head of the Church and is the Foundation of the Church.

Ephesians 1:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 5:23-24
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

The Church submits to Jesus, not to the Popes!

Colossians 1:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP] According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:20
[SUP]20 [/SUP] built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

The Catholics have laid down a foundation built on the Teachings of the Catholic Church and on Mary. Mary is the cornerstone of the Catholic Church, not Jesus.

The Catholic Church is all about them being in charge with God being below them.

Until you realize that you are fighting against God fordman you will never be allowed to see the Truth from God.

2 Corinthians 4:1-6
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


Its those who are perishing who tamper with God's words. You have tampered with God's Word to prove your false doctrines about Mary. Therefore fordman you are perishing.

Repent fordman, reject the ways of Satan, give up your pride, accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior before its too late and you miss out on Salvation.

Without Salvation you can never Inherit the Kingdom of God. Without accepting Jesus as your Savior you will spend eternity outside of God.

 

[epostle]

I hate to call it catholic because it's far from universal. It is in practice very exclusive.

In practice, Catholicism is far more inclusive than any non-Catholic church.

Jesus never appointed a pope to run the church. My bible says that Jesus is the head of the church. Since Jesus lives there is no requirement to replace Him as the head of the church.

Of course Jesus is head of the Church...from heaven. You have been told this 100 times, and perhaps 1000 times in the Catholic forums you have been banned from. You just don't like anyone's answers. Jesus appointed Peter as head of the church on earth, not heaven. Peter held an office like the other Apostles. An office without succession is not an office. Another word for "office" is "chair". No organization can function without some kind of leadership. Jesus knows this, you don't. Your view of the early church is a dysfunctional disorganized fantasy that defies reason. The Romans sure believed there were popes, why do you think they had them all killed?

I am being accurate according to the facts of the matter. You are responding with hateful emotions and not reason or logic. I never really expect you to respond with scripture.

Maybe because responding with scripture is a waste of time with you. I posted 75 verses indicating Peter's role as leader on two occasions. You just ignore them because you can't find the word "Pope" in them. It means "father" and spiritual fatherhood is all over the bible. And those verses won't mean anything to you anyway.

Not the councils of men but the word of God. The bible can not make sense to those who do not have the Holy Spirit in their heart. The Holy Spirit is only in the hearts of believers who have been born again. Not by their will but by the will of God.

[/QUOTE] Pitting the word of God against councils? Have you any idea what a council is for? Heretics were using the word of God to justify their falsehoods. "Not the councils of men but the word of God." is an insane statement. Just where do you think the Bible came from? Oh, I forgot, you guys have your own history.

Tell me did Jesus ever cite any rabbinical teachings or historians in His preaching ministry?

Yes.
Matthew 23:2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; (not found in the OT)

When Jesus was in the temple with the teachers of the time did He reason with them about traditions or history? Scripture says Jesus taught from the scriptures with wisdom that they did not possess.

There is nothing in scripture about Jesus teaching scripture at the Temple at the age of 12. He was listening and answering questions, it says nothing about Him teaching scripture. Maybe He did, but definitely not scripture alone, or it wouldn't be a dialogue.

So what should one believe when scripture and Catholic catechism conflict, and why?

A conflict may arise when one is reading scripture through faulty lenses, or if one is not using the catechism properly. If you notice, the catechism is loaded with scripture. A conflict is impossible, but apparent when taken out of context.
V. Practical Directions for Using this Catechism

Should we trust the interpretations of Augustine or Jimmy Swaggart, the teachings of the Council of Ephesus or the pronouncements of Dave Hunt? Should we be guided by the prayer and worship practices of Christians in the first three centuries who were the closest to the New Testament Church or the prayer-and-worship routines of 25,000+ denominations?

 

[notuptome]

In practice, Catholicism is far more inclusive than any non-Catholic church.

So inclusive you embrace Muslims as brothers.

Of course Jesus is head of the Church...from heaven. You have been told this 100 times, and perhaps 1000 times in the Catholic forums you have been banned from. You just don't like anyone's answers. Jesus appointed Peter as head of the church on earth, not heaven. Peter held an office like the other Apostles. An office without succession is not an office. Another word for "office" is "chair". No organization can function without some kind of leadership. Jesus knows this, you don't. Your view of the early church is a dysfunctional disorganized fantasy that defies reason. The Romans sure believed there were popes, why do you think they had them all killed?
Maybe because responding with scripture is a waste of time with you. I posted 75 verses indicating Peter's role as leader on two occasions. You just ignore them because you can't find the word "Pope" in them. It means "father" and spiritual fatherhood is all over the bible. And those verses won't mean anything to you anyway.

You are inventive I'll give you that. The body has only one head. The body is filled with saints that are filled with the Holy Spirit. No room for popes who are not even born again Christians. Popes who themselves are certain they'll be in heaven.

Pitting the word of God against councils? Have you any idea what a council is for? Heretics were using the word of God to justify their falsehoods. "Not the councils of men but the word of God." is an insane statement. Just where do you think the Bible came from? Oh, I forgot, you guys have your own history.

Any council that departs from Gods word is in itself a falsehood.

Yes.
Matthew 23:2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; (not found in the OT)

This demonstrates that you have no concept of the context of the statement. But then the Romanist priesthood is not unlike the Pharisees themselves.

There is nothing in scripture about Jesus teaching scripture at the Temple at the age of 12. He was listening and answering questions, it says nothing about Him teaching scripture. Maybe He did, but definitely not scripture alone, or it wouldn't be a dialogue.

That's amusing.

A conflict may arise when one is reading scripture through faulty lenses, or if one is not using the catechism properly. If you notice, the catechism is loaded with scripture. A conflict is impossible, but apparent when taken out of context.
V. Practical Directions for Using this Catechism

Should we trust the interpretations of Augustine or Jimmy Swaggart, the teachings of the Council of Ephesus or the pronouncements of Dave Hunt? Should we be guided by the prayer and worship practices of Christians in the first three centuries who were the closest to the New Testament Church or the prayer-and-worship routines of 25,000+ denominations?

The catechism is mans understanding where the bible is God breathed.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

God does not operate by democratic rule. The majority is the wrong measure to determine the validity of doctrine. Only Gods word has the fidelity of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[HQ]

So inclusive you embrace Muslims as brothers.

You are inventive I'll give you that. The body has only one head. The body is filled with saints that are filled with the Holy Spirit. No room for popes who are not even born again Christians. Popes who themselves are certain they'll be in heaven.



Any council that departs from Gods word is in itself a falsehood.
This demonstrates that you have no concept of the context of the statement. But then the Romanist priesthood is not unlike the Pharisees themselves.

That's amusing.

The catechism is mans understanding where the bible is God breathed.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

God does not operate by democratic rule. The majority is the wrong measure to determine the validity of doctrine. Only Gods word has the fidelity of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No offense but you clearly have NOT read the bible to any great extent. If you had you would know that it says, at least ten times, that the Word of God is immutable. That's not Jimmy Swagger speaking, those are the inspired words of the authors of the bible. Yet Catholic dogma changes like the wind at the whim of the current reining Pope (or when geopolitical pressures force a Vatican Counsel). Where are you going to put your faith? In the inspired Word of God or the fickle haplessnes of the papacy, which acts more like a political agent of change rather than a hub for for true spirituality?

 

[HQ]

FYI my previous post was directed at epostle, not you notuptome.

 

[49]

See Eph. 4:5



Catholic!

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"See Eph. 4:5"...So you are saying Paul was Catholic?

 

[epostle]

So inclusive you embrace Muslims as brothers.

Another Anti-Catholic misrepresentation, demonstrating your invincible ignorance. Flaming zingers is easy, you don't have to do any work to back up your assault.

The Church has relations with all religions, that does not mean they are embraced. Muslims are brothers insofar as they worship the God of Abraham, but that is as far as it goes. Dialogue with Muslims is much better than being its victims.

(1) They "profess to hold the faith of Abraham." The operative word here is "profess"—they claim to hold the faith of Abraham. In reality, their faith is an imperfect version of the faith that comes from Abraham, but they are trying to follow in the footsteps of Abraham, and the Council gives them credit for that.

(2) "Together with us they adore the one, merciful God." For many, this statement is perplexing. However, as we saw in last issue’s "Brass Tacks" column, God is aware of and acknowledges all that is good and true in the worship offered to him, however imperfect an understanding of him a worshiper may have. While Muslims, like Jews, do not accept the Trinity, they do acknowledge that God is the only true God and that he is merciful. This means that they honor things that are true about God but have a limited understanding of him.

Christians have a fuller understanding of God because he has revealed more to us about himself: specifically, that he is a Trinity. This doctrine cannot be deduced by human reason; it can only be known by revelation.

Failure to accept this revelation of the Christian age does not stop Muslims from worshiping God any more than it stops Jews. It means only that they know less about God and that they have erroneous corollary ideas (for instance, that Jesus is not the Son of God).​

Read more: http://www.catholicfidelity.com/the-catechism-on-islam-by-james-akin/

You are inventive I'll give you that. The body has only one head. The body is filled with saints that are filled with the Holy Spirit. No room for popes who are not even born again Christians. Popes who themselves are certain they'll be in heaven.

You have empty assertions and idiotic theories, no evidence. Jesus, the one and only head of the church in heaven, appointed a representative here on earth to run things BECAUSE THE CHURCH IS JESUS ON EARTH. He can do that because he is God, and he is smart enough to know we need a physical earthly mechanism to know truth from error. You are forced to re-write history to suit a man made system.

Any council that departs from Gods word is in itself a falsehood.

You imply any given council but fail to mention one. Maybe you favor Arianism (council of Nicae), or maybe you like Nestorianism (council of Ephesis). Or maybe you favor gay marriage or abortion.

This demonstrates that you have no concept of the context of the statement. But then the Romanist priesthood is not unlike the Pharisees themselves.

That's amusing.

What's amusing is your whole premise/approach to scripture is not much different than the way a Muslim approaches the Qu'ran. Tell ya what, you stop using the term "Romanist, and I won't call you a psychotic Calvinoid. Deal?

The catechism is mans understanding where the bible is God breathed.

Your squirming, looking for fiery darts to throw. If that is your summary of the catechism, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

God does not operate by democratic rule. The majority is the wrong measure to determine the validity of doctrine. Only Gods word has the fidelity of God.

The Church is not a democracy. She is modeled after the Davidic Kingdom. What you mean by "only God's word" is what you want it to mean, making "God's word" subservient to your opinions. That is the worst form of idolatry.