How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

phil36 · Jan 13, 2016

I asked the question 'who lives YOUR christian life... and you said Christ, I am mearly asking you who is it that sins or who is disobedient? if you say Christ lives your life than you are saying tht it is him..you not me.

Of course ou where very vague as you never mentioned yourself you just said Christ lives the christian life.

So to clear up..who lives your christian life..you or Christ?

FreeNChrist · Jan 13, 2016

phil36 said:

I dont mean to but in between your conversation (well I suppose I am lol), but don't you think this is where some misunderstanding comes in. None hyper grace people dont say that you gain righteousness through obeying the law..that is a right standing before God. (well, i have to correct that some actually do and their wrong).

its the age old apples and oranges James and Paul..we affirm both.

Could you restate that in a more understandable manner?

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2016

That is your view that the gospel of the grace of God that Paul taught is different then what us grace believers are saying..

It's good news in what Christ Himself has done for and in us. And it's free.....no good works to get it..no good works to keep it....

I didn't see anyone say that the Christian life was a one time event..it's an every day..second by second lived in Christ..fully aware of His in us....that would be a horrible religion to think otherwise...

I lken it to how real estate agents call the 3 things to know in their business - location, location, location

The Christian live in Christ is - awareness, awareness, awareness.

I'm not saying you don't agree with what I have been saying ..well except for the above where you say Paul didn't preach the gospel of the grace of Christ.....perhaps it was something else I said where we disagree on.....as it's not likely putting the words gospel, grace and Christ together are bothering you...that can't be possible.....

phil36 said:

phil36 · Jan 13, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Its quite easy to understand..trying to put someone down doesn't win the argument

you do understand what is mean't by Paul and James when it comes to the theologicla discussion of works righteousness? However, maybe we could discuss what Paul actually means by 'works of the law' in regards to the NP on Pauline thought

FreeNChrist · Jan 13, 2016

phil36 said:

I said the Christian life is Christ and only He can live it. Try thinking real hard on the passage I gave you.

BenFTW · Jan 13, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

He doesn't mean to butt into your conversation and he asks, "Don't you think this is where some misunderstanding comes in?" His question is in reference to grace vs works, and how some people believe obedience to the law saves and others believe (and mainly so) that salvation is simply a right standing before God. Faith vs Legalism, grace vs works, etc.

FreeNChrist · Jan 13, 2016

phil36 said:

Its quite easy to understand..trying to put someone down doesn't win the argument

you do understand what is mean't by Paul and James when it comes to the theologicla discussion of works righteousness? However, maybe we could discuss what Paul actually means by 'works of the law' in regards to the NP on Pauline thought

I am not trying to put you down.

oldthennew · Jan 13, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

+++++++++++++++++++++++

your 'job' is busted,,,,,and more pitiful than words can describe....

FreeNChrist · Jan 13, 2016

oldthennew said:

So you believe Christ died for nothing. Got it.

phil36 · Jan 13, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

As I have said a few times now I agree with most of what you say as I say hyper grace has a lot of truth but a serious error regarding the Christian life. I actually told you in the post you mean the statement differently than its original intention. anyhow. just to clear up ..Paul preached the one true gopsel..which includes plenty on being obedient,and we could say to the law of God (Christ), Hyper grace would have been alien to Paul.

Why do you say 'us grace believers' we all believe in grace? thats a strawman (I know you know that and thats the way debate goes)

The question is still the same... repentence is key here.. and don't get me wrong I also agree that there is a one time repentance unto salvation...unfortunatly thts where hyper grace seems to stop...

phil36 · Jan 13, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Ok no probs

phil36 · Jan 13, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Trust me, I have. Is there not another verse somewhere that might make you think..

Ok try it this way..when you sin ..who is it that is sinning?

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2016

I would say that we do agree on lot's of points..except for the gospel that Paul preached being different then what some of us are saying..but that's a personal choice of belief too ...

..I know all Christians say they believe in grace..how could we not?..but the crux is..is there mixture in the grace that is taught?...do we begin in the Spirit and are we perfected by grace too?

And we all agree that we repent..no grace ( hyper or otherwise) would say we don't repent..repent means to change your mind...let's say that the Lord shows me that to slander a leader in the Body of Christ is wrong..I reoent..that is change my mind to not slander them anymore by God's grace within me...this would be another term for sanctifying too.

Let me ask you a question.....when you preach the gospel of Christ would people say.. "What?..are you saying I can go and sin all I want?"....would they ask that of you?...you say nothing to them but the gospel....would they say the above statement?..thanks..

phil36 said:

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2016

Phil36...I want to thank you for your respect that you have shown us even though we may have different view points. You haven't call us derogatory names...no heretics...false teachers from satan.....greasygracists..etc.

It shows respect for your brethren.

I for one appreciate that and it shows the Spirit of Christ in operation through and in you. Thank you!

phil36 said:

phil36 · Jan 13, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

A preacher is to preach the gospel... But, we have to stop here and think what that means to the Christian (in a church setting remember the preacher is there mainly to feed the sheep). All precher would include living a spirit filled life, producing fruit ie, good works, being obedient after all Jesus gave the greatest command. Living a life of joy in Christ. But saints need to know about and reminded of sin, that includes theft lying, cheating adultery and the joy of repentence, that it is not just changing ones mind or even just an acknowledgement (yes that is part of it) theres the turning away from sin and the turning to God (negative and positive aspects).... Christians will feel 'remorse' for their sins if you don't I would to be honest doubt your faith. Remorse means ----:: a feeling of being sorry for doing something bad or wrong in the past : a feeling of guilt,, a gnawing distress arising from a sense of guilt for past wrongs. Christians will feel the Fathers displeasure with them when they sin or do not repent from their sins.

However, that does not mean you do not live in grace, God still loves you. It is like a child... As a Father I love my kids and that will never change and they know that.. yet when they where young and where disobedient they new I was displeased with them... yet my love for them never once diminished. (an imperfect anology I know). We ae like that with our father he always sees us through His Son and His work, yet when we sin we have displeased and and will feel his disleasure (in varying ways), we need to repent with true remorse not just an acknowledgement for that means nothing. Sin in the believer and espeially the mature believer will bring remorse, that deep feeling of guilt which leads us to repentence. This really does express the genuine faith of the believer and maintain the close relationship of the believer to his Father.

phil36 · Jan 13, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Phil36...I want to thank you for your respect that you have shown us even though we may have different view points. You haven't call us derogatory names...no heretics...false teachers from satan.....greasygracists..etc.

It shows respect for your brethren.

I for one appreciate that and it shows the Spirit of Christ in operation through and in you. Thank you!

Same goes to you grace777x70.

royalscot · Jan 13, 2016

jesus was back in heave when the holy spirit was give.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

history thats proved correct.

sin you need a law, for conviction, with 70, ad already in place, that would already ask, ware did you get your definition of sin. etc(without a temple of stone), and if this law had consequence to jewish law breakers, not gentile law breakers (ie law of the land)

PeterJens · Jan 13, 2016

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:20

This verse means Paul is saying anything that is part of his ambitions or expectations are now dead. His whole motivation and dedication is to Jesus and following His lead.

Only a nutcase would say this actually means Jesus possesses someone like a demon, and it is Jesus in control.
If you think this is how Jesus works through His people you belong to the wrong Kingdom, because the Lord is about communion choosing fellowship, servant hood and connection.

Jesus saw what the Father was doing and did it. He obeyed the Fathers command and the Lord confirmed His approval of His son. We are called to walk with Him, filled with love truth and power as independent loving beings who chose to worship the Father and His Son, having fellowship with His Spirit within.

FreeNChrist · Jan 13, 2016

Sorry, I'm having a migraine and can barely see the screen. But wanted to post this. Later all.

"When Christ is within, His strength is ours. Weak in ourselves we are "strong in the Lord and in the power of His might." We are "strong in the grace that is Christ Jesus." Concerning every victory won or work accomplished we thankfully acknowledge, "It is not I, but Christ who dwelleth in me." Concerning every failure and defeat we sorrowfully acknowledge, "It is not Christ, but sin that dwelleth in me." The discouragement arising from futile attempts to live the Christian life is traceable in every case to a lack of dependence upon the power of the Indwelling Christ.” - JAMES M. CAMPBELL

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2016

I think that the gospel means the same for the convert as it does the Christian that has been born again for decades. We start out in the Spirit and we are perfected by the same gospel of Christ.

I maintain that we as Christians need to hear the gospel constantly as " it is the power of God for salvation ( not just heaven..but for health, wholeness, peace..this is what the greek word means here ) to everyone that believes....

True..the one teaching needs to "Feed" the sheep...but not "beat" the sheep. There are those that will "boast" in their so-called grace in order to sin on purpose. That is not the grace of Christ as it teaches us to deny ungodliness in this world. They also are not under grace because if they were..sin would not have dominion over them.

SOme "sheep" might need to have a good talking to by the elders when deemed necessary by them always following the Holy Spirit for direction. others by the direction of the Lord will be "delivered over to satan for the destruction of their flesh"..that seems to be rare...

Just some of my rambling thoughts on that subject...

The reason why I asked you about the gospel that is being preached is that Paul was getting the accusation from Christians that what he preached the gospel ..they responded " What?..are you saying that we can sin all we want? "...there is a reason they say that. The grace of Christ is offensive to some people...not to sinners...but to the self-works mindset.

I'll leave you with a quote from this theologian that sums up what should happen when the gospel is preached no matter if it's to sinners or to the saints in Christ..

phil36 said:

How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

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