misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

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Feb 26, 2015
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Sola Scriptura means we are to use ONLY the Scriptures when it come to matters of Faith. Only the Scriptures has all the Truths. There is no truth in the World outside of God!

Therefore Loco you cannot quote what a Church or person says over what God says in the Scriptures. That is heresy!

This is why Catholics do not have the Truth. They are to willing to toss aside God to listen to men.
 
L

Loco

Guest
Loco, don't give up your day job. You're not even remotely funny, or offensive, at least you could have been one or the other, but you lack the skills. However, you are naive for 57 years of age.

As far as John the Baptist, I know he is proud of my no-nonsense approach to heretics, but infinitely more importantly, God is well pleased. I'm respectful at first, but when the heresies continue, I take off the gloves. But don't you worry, Loco, feel free to play nice with heretics while they ignore the Truth and continue to spew forth their blasphemous fallacies. We don't ever want to jolt them in such a manner that they may open their eyes to the Truth.
Mathew 11: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not [SUP][r][/SUP]mourn.’ [SUP]18 [/SUP]For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ [SUP]19 [/SUP]The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a [SUP][s][/SUP]drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and [SUP][t][/SUP]sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”

You have your calling, and I have mine. As I deserve Hell, and there is no Good thing in me apart from Christ, I try not to be offended when my brother does not understand what God would like from me. As far as I can tell, you are my brother, and are doing the will of my Father as He would like you to. Naïve is not an insult, I only wish I were more so.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
Sola Scriptura means we are to use ONLY the Scriptures when it come to matters of Faith. Only the Scriptures has all the Truths. There is no truth in the World outside of God!

Therefore Loco you cannot quote what a Church or person says over what God says in the Scriptures. That is heresy!

This is why Catholics do not have the Truth. They are to willing to toss aside God to listen to men.

I am not Catholic, but I don't believe in Sola Scriptura either..................


The reason being is because without the Holy Spirit in us teaching and guiding us in the Truth, then reading what is written in God's bible for us would be pointless.

We would be trying to comprehend the spiritual with a carnal mindset and that just doesn't work !!!

This is why the bible says do not put man's customs, traditions, and philosophies before Him, because if want His Truth all we have to do is ask in prayer and by the Holy Spirit He will give it to us....
 
L

Loco

Guest
Sola Scriptura means we are to use ONLY the Scriptures when it come to matters of Faith. Only the Scriptures has all the Truths. There is no truth in the World outside of God!

Therefore Loco you cannot quote what a Church or person says over what God says in the Scriptures. That is heresy!

This is why Catholics do not have the Truth. They are to willing to toss aside God to listen to men.
You're getting warmer, that is almost what it means.

Find one quote from me where I place what someone states over the plain and simple meaning of clear Biblical passage.

Find one place where I deny the inerrancy, sufficiency and perspicuity of Scripture for salvation.

I am very encouraged, you are actually getting very close to understanding what sola Scriptura means and does not mean.
 
L

Loco

Guest
I am not Catholic, but I don't believe in Sola Scriptura either..................


The reason being is because without the Holy Spirit in us teaching and guiding us in the Truth, then reading what is written in God's bible for us would be pointless.

We would be trying to comprehend the spiritual with a carnal mindset and that just doesn't work !!!

This is why the bible says do not put man's customs, traditions, and philosophies before Him, because if want His Truth all we have to do is ask in prayer and by the Holy Spirit He will give it to us....
You do not understand what sola Scriptura means. It does NOT mean that Scripture can be understood apart from the Grace of God. There is a difference between the nuanced words of a heretic trying to twist the Truth, and the nuanced words of Christian scholars like Calvin and many others in explaining carefully Truth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I am not Catholic, but I don't believe in Sola Scriptura either..................
The reason being is because without the Holy Spirit in us teaching and guiding us in the Truth, then reading what is written in God's bible for us would be pointless.
We would be trying to comprehend the spiritual with a carnal mindset and that just doesn't work !!!
This is why the bible says do not put man's customs, traditions, and philosophies before Him, because if want His Truth all we have to do is ask in prayer and by the Holy Spirit He will give it to us....
I have never heard anyone say Sola Scriptura meant: without the Holy Spirit of God.
 
L

Loco

Guest
CORRECT!!!! Give the girl a magenta cigar!
 
L

Loco

Guest
The RC "magisterium" sometimes makes the claim that we need men with pointy hats to explain the Scriptures else we're unable to understand sufficiently for salvation. THAT is a denial of sola Scriptura.

As I have pointed out, do not pardon the pun, if you believe you need men in pointy hats to explain the Scriptures to you, then you will also need other men to explain what the men in pointy hats are writing since their writings are:
1- not in the common language but in a dead language (while Scripture's languages are still alive)
2- much more voluminous and full of contradictions
3- no clear list of what is or is not inspired

In other words, when you supplant the Holy Spirit with a cadre of pointy hats producing bulls for 2K years you get an infinite regression of uncertainty. Sure looks good to the natural eye, all that pomp, MONEY and "gravitas" but in actuality a morass of contradictions and uncertainty.

Thus, "a ploughboy with the Scripture may know more than all the" pointy hats in bull land.

Now, does that mean the RC top to bottom is not Christian? Well, I suppose I am more tolerant than some here, for I would say there is still enough of Christ crucified there for me to call it Christian. Now, the Anglican Church in the USA for example, with it's lesbian Schorr THAT I won't call Christian.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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1 John 2:26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP] I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

I have posted this in many threads on many websites!

We do not need the Catholics to teach us anything!
 
L

Loco

Guest
1 John 2:26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP] I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

I have posted this in many threads on many websites!

We do not need the Catholics to teach us anything!
I fully agree we do not need men in flat tops (the Orthodox, whose institutions are older than the RC) or men in pointy hats (the RC) who tore what apparent unity the visible church had 1,000 years ago in strife, condemnation and hate to teach us anything. I would rather listen to men who in obedience to Scripture, wear no hats in Church (ladies, should you have your heads uncovered in Church just because Vatican II and the feminists say it's OK, should you ladies continue to go to Church with heads uncovered?).

However, should we consider the entirety of the Orthodox and RC not Christian, even though they affirm Nicea? Well, let's read a little further in 1 John to see why I won't go that far yet:

New American Standard Bible (NASB)1 John 4: 4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. [SUP]2 [/SUP]By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. [SUP]5 [/SUP]They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. [SUP]6 [/SUP]We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Well. there you have my case. I am loathe to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Call it playing nice with heretics if you wish, I call it obeying Scripture.
 
Feb 6, 2015
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Did you know fordman that if a Catholics was caught reading the Scriptures he could be put to death? Its was a decree from the Catholic Church to put all those who read the Scriptures to death just for reading the Words of God!
 

You failed to address where you you got this tid-bit of information M.H.

The Council of Trent (1545-1564) placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or inquisitor. The Council added these words: "That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary."

Rome’s attempt to keep the Bible from men has continued to recent times. Pope Pius VII (1800-1823) denounced the Bible Society and expressed shock at the circulation of the Scriptures. Pius VII said, "It is evidence from experience, that the holy Scriptures, when circulated in the vulgar tongue, have, through the temerity of men, produced more harm than benefit." Pope Leo XII called the Protestant Bible the "Gospel of the Devil" in an encyclical letter of 1824. Pope Gregory XVI (1831-1846) railed "against the publication, distribution, reading, and possession of books of the holy Scriptures translated into the vulgar tongue."

Pope Leo XII, in January 1850, condemned the Bible Societies and admitted the fact that the distribution of Scripture has "long been condemned by the holy chair."
So allow me.

You got it from the distorted article, "The KJV and the Latin Vulgate." by the anti-Catholic author, David Cloud. So lets see what the Catholic Apologists, Fr. Joseph Jenkins has to say of this article:

"Let us look at his assertions. First, did the Council of Trent really prohibit the reading and ownership of the Bible? The answer is, no. The council fathers decreed on April 8, 1546, ". . . the synod, following the examples of the orthodox Fathers, receives and venerates with an equal affection of piety and reverence all the books both of the Old and New Testament, –seeing that one God is the author of both, . . . ." Oddly, I could not find the quotation as given by the cited author; however, I did find decrees regarding UNAPPROVED and or FAULTY translations of the Scriptures. Just as with theological works, the Church asserted her role over their legitimate use. To suggest that the Council of Trent opposed the authentic Word of God is untrue. Second, the prohibition for Catholics in joining Bible Societies was due to the fact that these said groups did not use Scriptures approved by Church sources and were quite anti-Catholic in their approach. Such has been the continued problem with gullible Catholics stolen from Christ’s Church by anti-Catholic fundamentalist bible study programs, some which particularly target Catholics. Again, this was no disdain for the Holy Scriptures, only for the malicious intent by which some men use them. Third, the concern about bible distribution was that Protestant bibles were being circulated which in missing texts and in footnotes often questioned and ridiculed Catholic teaching. Obviously, the Church preferred that Catholics read bibles which reflected the orthodox Catholic interpretation of the Word of God. The misuse of the Gospel against the Church established by Christ himself is as Pope Leo XII noted nothing less than satanic. Cloud’s interpretation of Church history, or tradition, is as cloudy as the anti-Catholic’s understanding of the Scriptures.

Having attacked Christ’s Church, the anti-Catholic bigot will sometimes have the audacity to call the Catholics whom he addresses by the label, "friends." This hackneyed sign of affection was used several years ago by the pornography and prostitute addicted Jimmy Swaggert in a pamphlet to proselytize Catholics. Do not be fooled. Such critics will neither break bread nor pray with the Catholic in peace. Indeed, the anti-Catholic critic when he runs out of material will often harp about the so-called multitude killed by Catholics as declared heretics. He tries to plant his own tags of intolerance and prejudice upon the Catholic Church. It is true that civil societies in the past did engage in much nonsense, both Catholic and Protestant, however, both camps equated spiritual murder with physical murder and subsequently confused the penalties. Neither Protestants nor Catholics would want to be classified by the actions of extremists. Returning to the subject of the Bible, it is my supposition that if properly studied with care to the sources and the literary forms of the text, it will affirm the Catholic faith. Such openness to the truth of the Scriptures has led many of the more astute Protestants into the Catholic Church. However, the more emotional, embittered, and ignorant the researcher– the less affected they are by such truths or the claims of the Catholic Church. The message of our loving God to such critics would be to put aside their prejudice and hatred and taste and see the goodness of the Lord in the Catholic community."
Very nice Father Joe. I don't think it could have been put any better!

What rang true for me, especially within this forum is what Fr. Joe had to say here:
 

Having attacked Christ’s Church, the anti-Catholic bigot will sometimes have the audacity to call the Catholics whom he addresses by the label, "friends." This hackneyed sign of affection was used several years ago by the pornography and prostitute addicted Jimmy Swaggert in a pamphlet to proselytize Catholics. Do not be fooled. Such critics will neither break bread nor pray with the Catholic in peace.
How true...... but most of all..... How sad.
 
 



Pax Christi
 
 
 

 

 
 
 
Feb 6, 2015
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Hogwash. You just hate Martin Luther for the sake of hating someone.
Horsefeathers!!!!! Thats just plain ridiculous, I don't hate Martin Luther or anyone esle for that matter.

What is wrong with you? You endeavor to use a faulty translation to impeach another translation. Show from the Greek where the text is in error but be prepared to have your text submitted to the same standard.

Frivolous remarks. Romanism did not preserve the true text of the bible. Israel had the OT long before anyone even knew of Romanism. The books removed from Rome's version of the bible were removed because of historical and doctrinal errors. Contradictions within the books and with other books that are above reproach cause their removal not Martin Luther.
The only thing that wrong notuptome, is you being reluctant in accepting history. I relize that sometimes the truth hurts..... but it don't change the the fact that history is what it is, even if we don't like it. Shown by the following:

The canon of Scripture is the list of 73 books that belong to the Bible. (The word "Bible" means "the Book.") The earliest writings of the Bible were likely composed in the 10th century B.C. The writing of Scripture continued until the first century A.D., when Revelation was complete.

Seven books of the Bible, all in the Old Testament, are accepted by Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, but are not accepted by Jews or Protestants. These include 1 and 2 Maccabees, Judith, Tobit, Baruch, Sirach, and Wisdom, and additions to the books of Esther and Daniel. These books are called Deuterocanonical by Catholics and Orthodox and Apocryphal by Jews and Protestants. These were the last books of the Old Testament written, composed in the last two centuries B.C. Their omission in Protestant Bibles leaves a chronological gap in salvation history.

The version of the Bible in use at the time of Jesus was the Septuagint (abbreviated LXX, for the 70 men who translated it from Hebrew into Greek by the beginning of the first century B.C.). This version of the Bible included the seven Deuterocanonical books. This was the version of the Old Testament used by the New Testament authors and by Christians during the first century A.D.

With the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem by the Romans in the year 70 A.D. and because the Christians were seen as a threat, the Jewish leaders saw a need to get their house in order. One thing that they did was to decide officially the list of books that were to compose their Scriptures. They did this at the Council of Jamnia (about 100 A.D.), at which they rejected the seven Deuterocanonical books because they believed that they were not written in Hebrew. (In 1947, however, fragments in Hebrew of Tobit and Sirach were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls. In addition, most Scripture scholars believe that 1 Maccabees, Judith, Baruch and parts of Wisdom were also originally written in Hebrew.) The early Church did not require all Scripture to be written in Hebrew, and the New Testament books were written in Greek.

The early Church continued to accept the books of the LXX version, although some debate about these books continued through the 5th century. This list, as accepted by the Catholic Church, was affirmed by the Council of Hippo in 393 A.D., by the Council of Carthage in 397 A.D., and by Pope Innocent I in 405 A.D. At the Ecumenical Council of Florence in 1442, the Catholic list was again restated, against those who wanted to include even more books.

In the 16th century, Martin Luther adopted the Jewish list, putting the Deuterocanonical books in an appendix. He also put the letter of James, the letter to the Hebrews, the letters of John, and the book of Revelation from the New Testament in an appendix. He did this for doctrinal reasons (for example: 2 Maccabees 12:43-46 supports the doctrine of purgatory, Hebrews supports the existence of the priesthood, and James 2:24 supports the Catholic doctrine on merit). Later Lutherans followed Luther’s Old Testament list and rejected the Deuterocanonical books, but they did not follow his rejection of the New Testament books.

Finally, in 1546, the Council of Trent reaffirmed the traditional list of the Catholic Church. ---EWTN
 

You are very religious but no man can will himself to be a Christian.
Alas...... here again you are being reluctant in accepting history....... the history of Christianity. The name "Christian" predates all of your thousands of differnt Protestant and Evangelical Churches by over a millennium. For those of you who think that Catholics are not Christian may be surprised to learn you accept the authority of several Catholic councils every time you pick up your Bible. The Bible didn't fall out of the sky notuptome, spiral bound with a KJV printed on it. It has a very rich Catholic history

Once again.....If you were to spent some time studying the Early Church Fathers, it would be made crystal clear that early Christian beliefs were Catholic.
 
 


Pax Christi
 
Feb 6, 2015
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Sola Scriptura means we are to use ONLY the Scriptures when it come to matters of Faith. Only the Scriptures has all the Truths
Care to show where Scripture says this/ i.e. Where Scripture says Sola Scriptura is sufficient as a sole rule of faith


Pax Christi
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
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Catholics agree with Protestants that Scripture is a "standard of truth" — even the preeminent one — but not in a sense that rules out the binding authority of authentic apostolic Tradition and the Church. The Bible doesn't teach that. Catholics agree that Scripture is materially sufficient. In other words, on this view, every true doctrine can be found in the Bible, if only implicitly and indirectly by deduction. But no biblical passage teaches that Scripture is the formal authority or rule of faith in isolation from the Church and Tradition. Sola scriptura can't even be deduced from implicit passages.
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7185
 
Dec 10, 2015
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The only reason the Catholics insist Traditions of the Catholic Church have equal Authority with the Scriptures is because with mans Traditions they can now Worship Mary as their god and not fear God for this sin.

Face it epostle, all you want is to be able to put your god Mary in charge.

Fortunately God is still in control and He will punish you for this sin of Idolatry in the Lake of Fire with Satan and his Angles.

Galatians 5:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Praying the Hail Mary is Idolatry epostle. Praying the Rosary is Idolatry epostle. Bowing down to a Statue of Mary is Idolatry.

As it stands epostle God cannot and will not allow you to enter into Heaven because of your sin of Idolatry.

Like I have said before and I will say it again. We True Christians only accept what is written in the Scriptures by the Holy Spirit. We have no need of any teachings from the corrupted Catholic theology because we have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit that teaches us the Truth.

1 John 2:26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP] I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

Its the Holy Spirit who Indwells in me, that teaches me all the Truth and is not a lie like the teachings of the corrupted Catholic Church!
 
Dec 10, 2015
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I challenge you epostle to show us the Book, Chapter and verse where God says Mary is our Mediator!

Prove this with Scriptures only and then i will listen to what you say!
 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
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Epostle will never answer you Paul. Neither will fordman because they have not received Salvation and do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. To them the Scriptures are a joke. Its what the Catholic Church teaches that is important to them, not what God says.

The will continue to evade your questions, proclaiming the Doctrines of Men over the Truths from God. Epostle and fordman have no use for such silly things as the Truth from God. Its what tickles their ears that they want to hear and follow. You need to realize its Mary that is their god and its their pride of being in the Catholic Church is all they want.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.


The Catholics have itching ears, listening to the Myths from the Catholic Church that says Mary is our Mediator!

Epostle and fordman have turned away from the Truth from God to listen with itching ears the Myths from the Catholic Church about Mary.

We can ignore everything they say because the Truth is not in them.