The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So what part of faith and love in Christ does not more than exceed the written code and the efforts of the flesh? I never knew you was so far from the truth HeRoseFromTheDead... its a bit disappointing.

Are you denying that's what the word means? The law does have the righteous effect of revealing the righteousness of GOD and man's poverty, and drives man to the one who is righteousness. Not a hard thing to discern.

 

[Willie-T]

Are you denying that's what the word means? The law does have the righteous effect of revealing the righteousness of GOD and man's poverty, and drives man to the one who is righteousness. Not a hard thing to discern.

What for? To just change leaders, one with a different name, with an alternative set of rules for us to earn Salvation with.

 

[Mitspa]

Are you denying that's what the word means? The law does have the righteous effect of revealing the righteousness of GOD and man's poverty, and drives man to the one who is righteousness. Not a hard thing to discern.

I think that word its debatable by honest folks that have studied Greek...(as I have) but to suggest that passage in some way is a promotion of the legalism of the law, is a error often used by legalist.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

that's just silly anyone that has studied the formation of the RCC understands its was formed from the desire of the Roman church to take power of what was called Christianity ... the term "catholic" is but a term that describes the evil that was already present in the Roman church.

So in your mind was everyone after the apostle John reprobate and corrupt?

 

[Mitspa]

So in your mind Was every after the apostle John reprobate and corrupt?

No..im sure their was some who held to the Holy Spirit ...but clearly the so-called church Fathers, as promoted by the RCC had no power or evidence that the Apostle taught through scripture was the true faith in the Holy Spirit. The great falling away that Paul spoke of was the very folks that began to seek to make the faith a religious order of men. If the RCC had a letter claiming someone was a student of John and therefore use that persons teachings or writings to approve the RCC...you can know its a false statement and not true.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No..im sure their was some who held to the Holy Spirit ...but clearly the so-called church Fathers, as promoted by the RCC had no power or evidence that the Apostle taught through scripture was the true faith in the Holy Spirit. The great falling away that Paul spoke of was the very folks that began to seek to make the faith a religious order of men. If the RCC had a letter claiming someone was a student of John and therefore use that persons teachings or writings to approve the RCC...you can know its a false statement and not true.

Have you had a chance to see this yet? > http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rit-new-modern-hyper-grace-3.html#post2444287

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No..im sure their was some who held to the Holy Spirit ...but clearly the so-called church Fathers, as promoted by the RCC had no power or evidence that the Apostle taught through scripture was the true faith in the Holy Spirit. The great falling away that Paul spoke of was the very folks that began to seek to make the faith a religious order of men. If the RCC had a letter claiming someone was a student of John and therefore use that persons teachings or writings to approve the RCC...you can know its a false statement and not true.

It's more than just holding to the holy spirit. Correct doctrine is essential to make sure the spirit we are following is indeed holy.

 

[Mitspa]

It's more than just holding to the holy spirit. Correct doctrine is essential to make sure the spirit we are following is indeed holy.

Correct doctrine is found in the scriptures ...not in letters from religious men that don't have the evidence the scriptures declare they should have ....

 

[Mitspa]

These so-called church fathers are powerless phonies who are clearly the folks the scriptures warns about as hirlings and wolves ..who have a form of godliness and no power. Who deny the very truth of the gospel as they sought power in this world.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

These so-called church fathers are powerless phonies who are clearly the folks the scriptures warns about as hirlings and wolves ..who have a form of godliness and no power. Who deny the very truth of the gospel as they sought power in this world.

All of them? That's a rather sweeping indictment. Were the Protestant reformers any different? No they weren't.

 

[sydlit]

Apostolic succession? Popes tracing unbroken line to Peter?
Then, denial of the same when it's convenient to win an arguement?
RCC can't seem to get their lies in order, perhaps?

 

[Mitspa]

All of them? That's a rather sweeping indictment. Were the Protestant reformers any different? No they weren't.

Well I look to the scriptures and the Holy Spirit alone ..but I think the Protestant fathers was clearly correct in how they seen the RCC.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Correct doctrine is found in the scriptures ...not in letters from religious men that don't have the evidence the scriptures declare they should have ....

I agree, but the problem with your application of this concept is that back then scripture wasn't universally available like it is today. I think Irenaeus was the first, or one of the first, to ascribe canonicity to all 4 gospel accounts. Before then, I think, every church used the gospel account that they preferred. So a lot of things had to be passed along through tradition. They didn't have the luxury that we do today.

 

[Mitspa]

I agree, but the problem with your application of this concept is that back then scripture wasn't universally available like it is today. I think Irenaeus was the first, or one of the first, to ascribe canonicity to all 4 gospel accounts. Before then, I think, every church used the gospel account that they preferred. So a lot of things had to be passed along through tradition. They didn't have the luxury that we do today.

How do you know what others had access to? The scriptures was well known by all believers and would have been in every body of believers ...the idea that this fellow had some kind of monopoly on the truth is just more RCC propaganda in my opinion. The RCC would have destroyed any writings that was contrary to their agenda from that time ...you can be sure of that.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How do you know what others had access to? The scriptures was well known by all believers and would have been in every body of believers ...the idea that this fellow had some kind of monopoly on the truth is just more RCC propaganda in my opinion. The RCC would have destroyed any writings that was contrary to their agenda from that time ...you can be sure of that.

"Before Irenaeus, Christians differed as to which gospel they preferred. The Christians of Asia Minor preferred the Gospel of John. The Gospel of Matthew was the most popular overall.[37] Irenaeus asserted that four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, were canonical scripture.[38] Thus Irenaeus provides the earliest witness to the assertion of the four canonical Gospels, possibly in reaction to Marcion's edited version of the Gospel of Luke, which Marcion asserted was the one and only true gospel.[6][25]

"Based on the arguments Irenaeus made in support of only four authentic gospels, some interpreters deduce that the fourfold Gospel must have still been a novelty in Irenaeus' time.[39] Against Heresies 3.11.7 acknowledges that many heterodox Christians use only one gospel while 3.11.9 acknowledges that some use more than four.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

2 Corinthians 3:3
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

"Before Irenaeus, Christians differed as to which gospel they preferred. The Christians of Asia Minor preferred the Gospel of John. The Gospel of Matthew was the most popular overall.[37] Irenaeus asserted that four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, were canonical scripture.[38] Thus Irenaeus provides the earliest witness to the assertion of the four canonical Gospels, possibly in reaction to Marcion's edited version of the Gospel of Luke, which Marcion asserted was the one and only true gospel.[6][25]

"Based on the arguments Irenaeus made in support of only four authentic gospels, some interpreters deduce that the fourfold Gospel must have still been a novelty in Irenaeus' time.[39] Against Heresies 3.11.7 acknowledges that many heterodox Christians use only one gospel while 3.11.9 acknowledges that some use more than four.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus

Im not sure what you think that proves? Im sure this guy discussed acceptable cannon as many others did as well...but the Roman church preserved this letter for its own reasons ... If this guy had been warning about the errors of the Roman church...im sure you would not ever heard his name.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Apostolic succession? Popes tracing unbroken line to Peter?
Then, denial of the same when it's convenient to win an arguement?
RCC can't seem to get their lies in order, perhaps?

Initially, the idea of apostolic succession was in reaction to heretics who claimed to be authorities, but had no connection to Christ or his disciples. Men who had studied under the apostles, or their disciples, claimed they had a greater authority because they learned doctrine from people who actually had walked with Christ, or who succeeded them. At that time, that was not an invalid claim.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Im not sure what you think that proves? Im sure this guy discussed acceptable cannon as many others did as well...but the Roman church preserved this letter for its own reasons ... If this guy had been warning about the errors of the Roman church...im sure you would not ever heard his name.

It wasn't meant to prove anything. You asked how I knew.

 

[Mitspa]

Initially, the idea of apostolic succession was in reaction to heretics who claimed to be authorities, but had no connection to Christ or his disciples. Men who had studied under the apostles, or their disciples, claimed they had a greater authority because they learned doctrine from people who actually had walked with Christ, or who succeeded them. At that time, that was not an invalid claim.

That's just Catholic propaganda ... Like the Nazis who claimed to be from some pure race ..then they go about to find documents or evidence to prove what is clearly false. There is no succession in Christ ...God calls and empowers with His Holy Spirit ...if a man don't have the power of the Holy Spirit ...You can know he is not called of God.