The 1 John 1:9 Lie: More New.Modern.Hyper Grace blasphemy

[KennethC]

What are your thoughts about people who live in such a manner but commit a sin then die before they have asked for forgiveness of that particular sin? Does that one sin doom them?

I know this was for peacefulbeliever, but I wanted to answer because there is more variables in place in order to give an actual answer.

That being the situation in which the sin occured and the position on where the person's heart was at.

For instance if a person was in a car wreck and just before they saw the other vehicle hit, they cussed (which is sin), then no their salvation would not be at stake.

However if the person totally renounced Christ to go back to living a life malice and the first sin they ever did caused their death. Then yes salvation would no longer be there, because their heart would not be in Christ, and eternal life only exists to those who abide in Christ.

Therefore it matters where the heart is !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But my guess is that they surely go for that 'give us this day our daily $$'

Quite funny (and true)

 

[phil36]

Here is another part to it...

We are definitely to show outwardly what we are in our new creation in Christ. We do not do "holy" things to become holy. We do not do righteous deeds to become righteous. Doing these good deeds or actions are simply a "fruit" of our union with Christ.

As Peter says..

1 Peter 1:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

This is why we need to hear the gospel of the grace of Christ everyday so that we "become outwardly who we already are in Christ now"

Yep we do need to hear it Amen.

Be holy yourselves also in all your behaviour (as OBEDIENT children).... you shall be Holy, for I am Holy

Thats great OT truths right there

You shall be holy to me, for I the LORD am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine. Lev 20:26..

The question still remains...Hyper/exagerated grace have a one sided view of what it actually means to be holy... I hope the verb 'to be ' helps

 

[crossnote]

discernment??..right ...so it gives a person the right to be malicious and slanderous even when they do not know the other person...I highly doubt that.....

There are some that believe it's within their "rights" to "rebuke" people because they interpreted the word and it's application different then what you do....they start "rebuking" people because they have a different interpretation then you in areas that are not clearly defined.

This so-called "rebuking' takes forms of "reviling" other leaders in the Body of Christ. Speaking in malice towards others in the body of Christ. They attack the person when they are confronted with clear scripture. This exact thing happened to Jesus with the religious people of His day.

People ( other then leaders in the Body of Christ ) that usually say they are "reproving or rebuking others" are using that out of context and most likely just "reviling people out of malice "...but they like to call it "rebuke" because it sounds so Christian-like.

It's a shame...this ought not to be brethren

They are 'leaders' alright. Perhaps I should obey my Lord in this...

Matthew 15:13-14 KJVS
[13] But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. [14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Good day.

 

[Grace777x70]

Kenneth..there is a massive difference between " judging someone " else when you don't even know them...then to simply say..if you trust in riches that is not godly....2 different things....one is slanderous and malicious..the other one is simply exhorting people not to trust in money..or anything for that matter....but to trust in their Lord for everything...

That's all I'm saying about that subject..it should be very obvious there is a difference...

It is not slander or malice to warn about living in lavish lifestyles, even the bible warns multiple times on being rich, living lavish lives, and building up treasures (possessions) on earth !!!

Why must those warnings continue to go unnoticed or tossed away as if they don't exist ???

Because people put more trust in what they have rather than putting it into the Lord, and thus it takes and drives their motives and bends God's word to suite that selfish lifestyle !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Good one....so that scripture says to "let them alone" but instead you are now judging who is blind?...you know better crossnote..I know you do..be who you are!

They are 'leaders' alright. Perhaps I should obey my Lord in this...

Matthew 15:13-14 KJVS
[13] But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. [14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

 

[JGIG]

Let's get practical about 1Jn 1:9.

When I drove taxis before being born again, i pocketed a $100 money order a drunk customer left in the back seat with no guilty conscience except the fear of getting caught.
Today, I cant even pocket $5 from extra change from a store clerk without my conscience feeling the weight of the wrong.

Now is that the Holy Spirit or satan convicting my new man?

What you did before, doesn't even enter your mind now - it's unthinkable, right?

Holy Spirit doesn't put that thought of sin in your mind and then tell you 'NO!'

Holy Spirit reminds you of who/Whose you are and you act accordingly - it's your New Creation Nature in action =o).

-JGIG

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What are your thoughts about people who live in such a manner but commit a sin then die before they have asked for forgiveness of that particular sin? Does that one sin doom them?

IMO of course not. We are members of the covenant that guarantees forgiveness of sin. GOD is faithful to his covenant when we aren't. But he does have his limits. What those are, no man knows (except for blatant denial). That's why it's prudent to fear GOD.

 

[Utah]

Therefore it matters where the heart is!!!

KEN AND I AGREE! KEN AND I AGREE! MARK YOUR CALENDAR! KEN AND I AGREE!

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..now that made me laugh out loud!..good one...

KEN AND I AGREE! KEN AND I AGREE! MARK YOUR CALENDAR! KEN AND I AGREE!

 

[KennethC]

Kenneth..there is a massive difference between " judging someone " else when you don't even know them...then to simply say..if you trust in riches that is not godly....2 different things....one is slanderous and malicious..the other one is simply exhorting people not to trust in money..or anything for that matter....but to trust in their Lord for everything...

That's all I'm saying about that subject..it should be very obvious there is a difference...

Well the problem though is we have the Word of God and His Holy Spirit that tells us exactly how believers in Him are to carry themselves.

And it states for leaders/ministers they are to be extra careful how they carry themselves, because they will have to answer for their actions more than others.

Why, because they are the overseers of the rest of the flock !!!

So what they say and do will lead others to follow suit and if they are teaching and acting in a wrongful manner will lead others to think that is acceptable. If they teach lies they lead themselves and those who hear to destruction !!!

We are told in God's word to esteem others more than self, and Jesus said "to much is given much will be required"........

Jesus never said I do or did it all, you don't have to do nothing !!!

We have every right to call out wrongful behavior with others in the body, this is not just something for the leaders to do !!!

 

[Utah]

IMO of course not. We are members of the covenant that guarantees forgiveness of sin. GOD is faithful to his covenant when we aren't. But he does have his limits. What those are, no man knows (except for blatant denial). That's why it's prudent to fear GOD.

My life is a wonderful combination of Proverbs 1:7 and Philippians 4:4 . . .

but much more the latter.

 

[Willie-T]

What you did before, doesn't even enter your mind now - it's unthinkable, right?

Holy Spirit doesn't put that thought of sin in your mind and then tell you 'NO!'

Holy Spirit reminds you of who/Whose you are and you act accordingly - it's your New Creation Nature in action =o).

-JGIG

Yes! A point many of us miss is that those very verses we like to quote about this tell us, plainly, that THE WORLD is convicted by the Holy Spirit, but BELIEVERS are brought to remembrance of (reminded of) who and whose we are.

I don't return the $5 now because I am guilty and ashamed. Not at all... because I don't even consider keeping it. I return it because I am aware of my IDENTITY, whose son I am, and our family (the family of God) doesn't do those things.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ohh..that sounds like you are being a gnostic?...don't answer that..I know the truth!..good one and it is so true!

Yes! A point many of us miss is that those very verses we like to quote about this tell us, plainly, that THE WORLD is convicted by the Holy Spirit, but BELIEVERS are brought to remembrance of (reminded of) who and whose we are.

I don't return the $5 now because I am guilty and ashamed. Not at all... because I don't even consider keeping it. I return it because I am aware of my IDENTITY, whose son I am, and our family (the family of God) doesn't do those things.

 

[KennethC]

Yes! A point many of us miss is that those very verses we like to quote about this tell us, plainly, that THE WORLD is convicted by the Holy Spirit, but BELIEVERS are brought to remembrance of (reminded of) who and whose we are.

I don't return the $5 now because I am guilty and ashamed. Not at all... because I don't even consider keeping it. I return it because I am aware of my IDENTITY, whose son I am, and our family (the family of God) doesn't do those things.

You see though you are speaking with the mindset of not keeping it in the first place, therefore there should be no shame and guilt because you have not sinned.

But what happens if do keep it knowing it is wrong, this is where the Holy Spirit will step in and convict you and thus feel the chastising of the Lord for committing a sin. That chastisement is always for correction, and you can not be corrected if you didn't do wrong to begin with.

The passage from Hebrews 12 shows that chastisement can be ignored or not obeyed as verses 5 and 7 lays out, and when one does not obey His chastising they make themselves in to being illegitimate and not sons !!!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yes! A point many of us miss is that those very verses we like to quote about this tell us, plainly, that THE WORLD is convicted by the Holy Spirit,

What verses? The world does not have the Holy Spirit, but rather the spirit of the Prince of this world. Jesus said the world could not receive the Holy Spirit because "it" the spirit of a lie was "in" them.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

 

[Willie-T]

You see though you are speaking with the mindset of not keeping it in the first place, therefore there should be no shame and guilt because you have not sinned.

But what happens if do keep it knowing it is wrong, this is where the Holy Spirit will step in and convict you and thus feel the chastising of the Lord for committing a sin. That chastisement is always for correction, and you can not be corrected if you didn't do wrong to begin with.

The passage from Hebrews 12 shows that chastisement can be ignored or not obeyed as verses 5 and 7 lays out, and when one does not obey His chastising they make themselves in to being illegitimate and not sons !!!

You see this is where, in essence, you would be calling Jesus a sinner. Why? Because He was "tempted in every way as we are." Being tempted is not a sin. Yes, of course, all of us have some things that tug at us stronger than other things. But that does not make us filthy, degenerate, or even "wrong." It just means that God's word is true... that we will be tempted.

 

[Willie-T]

What verses? The world does not have the Holy Spirit, but rather the spirit of the Prince of this world. Jesus said the world could not receive the Holy Spirit because "it" the spirit of a lie was "in" them.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

I hope you are kidding!!! John 16:8 begins the passage..

 

[phil36]

Yes! A point many of us miss is that those very verses we like to quote about this tell us, plainly, that THE WORLD is convicted by the Holy Spirit, but BELIEVERS are brought to remembrance of (reminded of) who and whose we are.

I don't return the $5 now because I am guilty and ashamed. Not at all... because I don't even consider keeping it. I return it because I am aware of my IDENTITY, whose son I am, and our family (the family of God) doesn't do those things.

Hi Willie,

I can agree with you on that...but here is the big problem.. You only have it half right. Thats the whole problem hyper grace exagerates one thing to the detrimiment of the other. And you guys can't even see that we agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Your story doesn't make much sense.. Did you steal the $5 ? then I would hope you would be ashamed and also remember who you are in christ..

If you just found the $5's and gave it back you have nothig to be ashamed of. But if it involved fraud or theft and your not ashamed and feel the guilt of that sin...then I would say to you to make sure you are in the faith. not beause you sinned by stealing or dishonesty, but because you feel noe 'remorse or sorrow, for offending your Father who at great expense redeemed you..never the less he is stilll faithful to forgive.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Isn't it a treasure that we're 100 posts into this thread and no one has dared to refute the OP, except for one post that attempted to by begging the question (based on a misunderstanding of other scripture verses)?