The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

kohelet · Jan 20, 2016

JGIG said:

A furphy is Australian slang for a rumour or an erroneous or improbable story but usually claimed to be fact.

JGIG · Jan 20, 2016

kohelet said:

Oh! It's the OP! Got it

.

-JGIG

sydlit · Jan 20, 2016

kohelet said:

So they SAY!!!
(Personally, I think that's just a furphy)

ladylynn · Jan 20, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

kohelet · Jan 20, 2016

JGIG said:

Nah, something else entirely.

ladylynn · Jan 20, 2016

JGIG said:

Sure hope he takes the time to read what you posted in these last posts JGIG!! For you answered his questions to a tee. It is amazing how thorough you guys are., Good stuff!!!! Kolehet., I hope you are reading these posts because they have answered your questions sooo much better than I ever could.
Blessings!!

Grace777x70 · Jan 20, 2016

Amen..Kolehet is a good loving brother in the Lord...Oi Oi Oi ( it's Australian talk )...and combine that with a vegemite sandwich!

One day ladylynn we will all 3 of us go for a walk together when we go to be with the Lord and talk about how beautiful and majestic our Lord is.....

ladylynn said:

ladylynn · Jan 20, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Amen., and he is a runner too!! Ask him to tell you the kangaroo story.....

I was also thinking today how terrific it would be for all of us go to the same church!!

sydlit · Jan 20, 2016

ladylynn said:

Yea! Two things I'd like to do...
1:Worship the Lord together with a number of you here.
No pressure, just love of Jesus and each other.
I really long for the hugs and even tears that I'm sure
would be exchanged. I really would like to just share that joy.
2: Is I'd like to visit some others churches, not to sit in judgement,
but just to see how they worship and especially what's being taught,
it would maybe give me some insight into where they get their ideas
about God and His Word, and how that influences their time here.

Willie-T · Jan 21, 2016

Magenta said:

You are aware, right, that anyone can read ALL of the past posts ever written about this? Even "way back" before they joined.

Willie-T · Jan 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Scripture isolated can cause all sorts of opinions and traditions to be put in place

Pay attention to the ..we and our and the you in 1 John chapter 1

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we (believers - namely John ) have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"

(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.

"We ( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you (unbelievers - gnostics ) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our ( believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).

This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ.

Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )

"This is the message we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ): God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).

John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).

"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).

In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.

"If we ( believers ) walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).

In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin.

Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins. We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

"If we ( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).

John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives.

He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.

However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." In other words, if they..the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness.

In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future. Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!

"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).

Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.

The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.

WOW! God definitely gave you THAT one. Telling us to use the brains He gave us when we read.

Grace777x70 · Jan 21, 2016

I got that mostly from BenFTW first post in the below thread......I just "tuned" it up a bit....this will only make sense if one is "open" to change their religious upbringing beliefs....willing to give up their traditions of men.....other then that..it'll be all foolishness and "ungodly" to them...putting a knife to the throat of a "sacred cow" can be a dangerous business...lol

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ion-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html

Willie-T said:

ladylynn · Jan 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Originally Posted by FreeNChrist

Let's recap. If we write long posts we're criticized for writing long posts. If we write short posts we're critiqued for writing short posts. If we post scripture we are criticized for posting scripture and not our own words. If we post our own words we are criticized for not quoting scripture.

Ya'll are a trip.

Am not sure how you guys can cut and paste so many things for one post. I posting that mulberry bush cartoon with intentions of the words to go with it. But it didn't. Did anyone actually listen to the cartoon? It provides some relief and perspective because we do repeat things so many time.

Willie-T · Jan 21, 2016

PeterJens said:

Unfortunately they have said morality is irrelevant. All that matters is being in Christ.

I hate this circular rubbish. Because it is not communication it is merely dispute.
Put simply if you love Jesus you will obey His commands. The obedience is because you are saved and transformed, empowered by the work He has done in your heart.

If you cannot agree that or do it, you do not know Jesus. It is that simple.

It sounds to me like many in the hyper-grace camp are Jesus rejects, or self imposed legalists. Well I have never been one.

I doubt greatly "They have left behind" anything, they seem blind deaf and dumb to the words of Christ.

But the simple fact is that neither you nor I do..... even though we both want to, and try to.

Willie-T · Jan 21, 2016

PeterJens said:

In western philosophy there has been a trend at reductionism.

This means to layer an argument with the most important points first, and then expand the concept outwards.

Rather than do this, everything is long winded and contorted because everything has to be presented as traditional with a twist. Most will not notice the twist or deception, but it is plainly there.

If I say to you "I love you" it means "I love you". Implicit within this is I desire the best for you and care when you are hurt.
If God says you have to repent of sin, and offer a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, that is what you have to do.
If Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice, then the sin is dealt with once for all. But this still means repentance is still required and everything else. It is why God put the temple there and made everything so set and concrete over 1,500 years.

It is not something minor it is the whole framework of redemption and sanctification. It is why Paul was still a pharisee after his conversion, it did not invalidate what He was in Israel, it fulfilled it.

Gosh, and then He destroyed that very Temple after giving us a better way.

Willie-T · Jan 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Well, isn't that exactly what Jesus was asking people to do? Follow Him instead of their Religious Traditions.

So what have "we" done? We've gone right back to miring ourselves in Religiosity.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jan 21, 2016

PeterJens said:

Willie-T said:

Of course GOD's children do. His commands aren't a burden. Maybe you don't...

ladylynn · Jan 21, 2016

Willie-T said:

When we finally see this inability to pick ourselves up because we keep having to do it yet again and again and yet again... we have become soooo disgusted and disappointed and tired of ourselves by now. We feel God has dealt with this junk of ours for so long that we imagine just how tired He must be indeed!! So we lose heart. Without grace., we are down cast like the Bible says - Why so down cast ohhh my soul... and we don't feel like God cares if we put our trust in Him anymore because we did it so many times and failed Him over and over. We figure His tolerance has run out.

But not so when we have a firm belief and solid confirmation that God looks at us with eyes that love motivated by HIM and not something we ARE or we DO. It is only then we can jump up with youthful exuberance and the Holy Spirit's revelation that it is Christ's Righteousness not ours that God sees.
Grace is a word that means free and unearned in every sense of the word. Nothing we can do., it is apart from us. ... Grace is apart from us and comes from the heart of God., not given due to our worthiness....

We find that after years of failure to get back on the horse and stay there is possible!, we are able by His grace to not only get back on the horse but we stay put. The works we sought to do for Him start to occur. All because of the knowledge and security of His love being for us and His promises being real. Because we get a revelation of what grace for daily life is. Faith comes in and we begin to walk by faith and not by sight or feelings.

And it is a work of our mind to focus and believe regardless of what happens around us. To keep looking to Jesus (the object of our faith) It is for us to keep our eyes on the prize. That is a discipline the Holy Spirit works with us on. The motivation for this is great as long as we fill our minds with His Word and not the things around us. WE HAVE TO BE REMINDED ALL THE TIME of our standing as loved sons.

We make a daily choice of what we see., hear and do every day. We can decide to read God's Word, listen to God's Word, be around people who do the same. We need that daily bread to feed on because our minds need that renewal and we need to RELEARN how to think all over again.

The mistake many of us Christians make is we allow our eyes and ears to be exposed to focus on the world and when we do, our faith walk will flounder and we will succumb to confusion again. So the motivation to THINK ON THESE THINGS as the Bible says... whatsoever things are true...holy....righteous.... THINK ON THESE THINGS is there for us as a guide. The more we have our minds renewed the more He will keep renewing it. Without grace settled in our mind for what it really is., we can't do this. And the enemy will have an advantage over us. How we think is our responsibility and we are in charge of where we decide to put ourselves each day. God won't force us.

The truth can only set us free if we believe it. The pure and beautiful truth can be right before us but if we don't believe it., it won't do us any good. And when we are believing this truth that He loves us based on Himself, we are able to rest and be refreshed on a daily basis and the supply never runs out.

Psalm 23

The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want,
He makes me to lie down in green patures;
He leads me beside quiet waters.
He restores my soul;
He guides me in the paths of righteousness
For His name's sake...

Keep reading on about fearing no evil because He is with us....His rod and His staff they comfort us...not beat us....We have a continual table to go to because of Him regardless of what our enemies do.
He has filled our cups to over flowing., only goodness and mercy and unfailing love shall follow us all the days of our lives because He is there. That is how our daily lives can be when we take hold of the meaning of grace.

PeterJens · Jan 21, 2016

Willie-T said:

A small point Willie-T. We know the words we share here but not the emotional life behind.
You declared you do not follow Jesus's commands. By Johns declaration you do not know Jesus then.

How seriously do you take Johns observation? Is there something you are missing?
Jesus says His way is not a burden. His commands are all about relationships with others and God. They are quite simple, and straight forward, yet you break them. But surely that means you are still in rebellion against the Lord.

Sin is the fruit of thoughts, aspirations, what you are and how you do things. But are these no go areas in your life to God?

Everytime you block His word in your life, you stop Him being able to change you. It is your choice, your submission.

I suspect you will not take kindly to my suggestion and your feeling will be how dare I say anything because .....

Now that is often the escape clause of the sin against the word of God.

Grandpa · Jan 21, 2016

PeterJens said:

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

Jeremiah 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.

I completely understand what Willie-T is saying. When he relies on himself and his work, he fails. Just like every person.

We aren't perfect yet. We try to abide in Christ and trust in Christ 100% but our natural reaction is to do it ourselves. Our natural reaction is not the spiritual one.

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