Why the king james?

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I don't worship it my friend, just honor it. How can one honor the word of God if he doesn't have it? How can one rightly divide the word of truth, if you don't have the word of truth?


Flawed logic here.....and what language did he write them in......and with Moses carrying them down to the people to read it can be logically deduced it was HEBREW....
REGARDLESS...Does not change the fact of what languages it was orginally written in.....you should study because the bible teaches to bave no IDOL IN YOUR LIFE.....WORSHIPPING A MAN MADE, COPIED, TRANSLITERATION IS HAVING AN IDOL!
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Okay...the writers themselves had no idea the work that would be accomplished through them. They were at least humble enough to admit. The point is, the KJV translators believed the final authority was in the original Hebrew and Greek, not in any translation, including their own. "The original being from Heaven…The author being God, not men." THEY BELIEVED TRANSLATORS WERE NOT INSPIRED. They did many things as learned men but yet as men they stumbled and fell. So the King James translators believed that translation was a purely human work. They made mistakes. Little did they know, God was using them to preserve His words in the English language and it would be used to win millions to Christ.


John146, what is your take on this quote.......

The KJV translators to the reader in the Preface to 1611 version........

"Therefore as S. Augustine saith, that variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: so diversity of signification and sense in the margin, where the text is no so clear, must needs do good, yea, is necessary, as we are persuaded."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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There are 4 small extremely wise things on the earth - ants, conies, locusts and spiders.
Ants are not strong but they're smart enough to gather all the food they need in the summer.
Conies are feeble and can't defend themselves so they make their houses in the safety of the rocks.
Locusts have no leader yet they are wise enough to stick together as if they had a leader.
Spiders work their hands yet they live in kings palaces.

Notice every verse in the KJV is about the abilities of the creature and it's wisdom. The same is true also in the NASB except for verse 28... the pattern disappears here. It goes from a spider grasping with her hands to someone grasping a lizard with their hands. Just guessing here but the NASB translators tried to interpret scripture here instead of just translating it.... I don't think they knew that spiders really do have hands.

Proverbs 30:28New American Standard Bible (NASB)

28 The lizard you may grasp with the hands,
Yet it is in kings’ palaces.


lizards are also small, and show that they have wisdom because they are found even in the king's palace, though they are easily caught.

what you posted here isn't any kind of proof, you're just trying to justify the translation post-assumption that it's correct. like i said earlier, either word makes a sort of sense - though spider taking with her hands less so, because what does that have to do with being found in a palace?

no, this proves nothing except that you tacitly assume the KJV is correct in every translation of every word.

show me a word study of the Hebrew word used here - which is not in dispute among ancient sources - that it means "spider" and not "lizard"

the NASB translators did not try to 'interpret rather than translate" -- that's what you just did.
nearly EVERY translation other than the KJV takes this word to mean "lizard" -- even Strong's has "lizard" for the entry, and it's a concordance based on the KJV.

don't interpret - translate.
set aside your presuppositions and show me what "שְׂמָמִית" means.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I know of one that agrees with "lizards," the catholic bible.



lizards are also small, and show that they have wisdom because they are found even in the king's palace, though they are easily caught.

what you posted here isn't any kind of proof, you're just trying to justify the translation post-assumption that it's correct. like i said earlier, either word makes a sort of sense - though spider taking with her hands less so, because what does that have to do with being found in a palace?

no, this proves nothing except that you tacitly assume the KJV is correct in every translation of every word.

show me a word study of the Hebrew word used here - which is not in dispute among ancient sources - that it means "spider" and not "lizard"

the NASB translators did not try to 'interpret rather than translate" -- that's what you just did.
nearly EVERY translation other than the KJV takes this word to mean "lizard" -- even Strong's has "lizard" for the entry, and it's a concordance based on the KJV.

don't interpret - translate.
set aside your presuppositions and show me what "שְׂמָמִית" means.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
Okay...the writers themselves had no idea the work that would be accomplished through them. They were at least humble enough to admit. The point is, the KJV translators believed the final authority was in the original Hebrew and Greek, not in any translation, including their own. "The original being from Heaven…The author being God, not men." THEY BELIEVED TRANSLATORS WERE NOT INSPIRED. They did many things as learned men but yet as men they stumbled and fell. So the King James translators believed that translation was a purely human work. They made mistakes. Little did they know, God was using them to preserve His words in the English language and it would be used to win millions to Christ.
Now that sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Just one more question please. "little did they know that God was using them to preserve His words in English..."

If they didn't know. Who told you? When and who revealed that it was perfect and without one mistake?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I know of one that agrees with "lizards," the catholic bible.

so what?

the question is more or less, what does semamith mean? if you're concerned about the truth of the matter, then look into that -
- are you able to set aside your preconception in order to find out the facts?

it's strong's 8079. שְׂ֭מָמִית
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest

so what?

the question is more or less, what does semamith mean? if you're concerned about the truth of the matter, then look into that -
- are you able to set aside your preconception in order to find out the facts?

it's strong's 8079. שְׂ֭מָמִית
I don't get that the translators themselves gave the readers caution in their preface.

When and where was the caution lifted? And who determined it was infallible? If the writers themselves didn't think it was infallible, who was the prophet after 1611 that told us it was infallible?
 
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fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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Without Scripture you cannot do this...Scripture is the pure words of God.
Yea, it means that our information should come from the Holy Scriptures... okay. Thanks
 
S

squidman22

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The catholic church didn't allow the common folk to read or have a bible. Prior to that, it took the early church about 200 years or so to grow and stabilize before research and discussion on what the final compilation would be. The reformation provided an environment where a thorough and exhaustive effort could be made to compile the final books into the KJV and distribute it to the common people. This explanation is really condensed.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I think I finally get it now! The Holy Spirit alone is not enough to teach us scripture, we MUST also rely on James Strong to lead us into all truth. Am I right on this... can a person come to the truth without Freemasons giving it to us?
 
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John146

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Also, the Holy Spirit can't possible sift through the difficult language of the KJV, so I need a version in the watered down form of English we speak today.


I think I finally get it now! The Holy Spirit alone is not enough to teach us scripture, we MUST also rely on James Strong to lead us into all truth. Am I right on this... can a person come to the truth without Freemasons giving it to us?
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Experience teaches us all that when the Holy Spirit speaks it is oft times not in words, yet what has been conveyed iis translated into words by the hearer. God is just this personal. Everything that is, is only in existence because God wills it to be so. How can anyone charge God with being ignorant of His creatures' languages when everything that is is either created by Him or procreated by men utilizing the raw materials He provided in creation?

Also, the Holy Spirit can't possible sift through the difficult language of the KJV, so I need a version in the watered down form of English we speak today.
 

John146

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Not following you, hung up on God wills everything to be so comment.


Experience teaches us all that when the Holy Spirit speaks it is oft times not in words, yet what has been conveyed iis translated into words by the hearer. God is just this personal. Everything that is, is only in existence because God wills it to be so. How can anyone charge God with being ignorant of His creatures' languages when everything that is is either created by Him or procreated by men utilizing the raw materials He provided in creation?
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Not following you, hung up on God wills everything to be so comment.
Does anyone believe that the God Who knows every hair on each one's head cannot understand a language formed by His creatures? That would not be our Father.

People should stop judging another man's servant right now, lest with the judgment they pronounce they are judged.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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That's my whole point. People claim they can't understand the KJV, it's too difficult. That's hogwash. They are not taking in account the Holy Spirit's role in teaching. "Well I like the blank version because it's easier to understand."


Does anyone believe that the God Who knows every hair on each one's head cannot understand a language formed by His creatures? That would not be our Father.

People should stop judging another man's servant right now, lest with the judgment they pronounce they are judged.
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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I believe everyone should leave the brethren to read the version given them to understand. I began reading the Word the first time using the Oxford Bible because when the Holy Spirit entered into me, one was provided me, miraculously, that night. Since I have read many versions, many languages, and because the Holy Spirit guides us, I get the same message from all.

I love th KJV, but I love all versions I have read, and none omit the message of salvation in believing Jesus Christ is the Only begotten Son of God, that is to say, He is Salvation.

Someone like the ASB, fine, stuck on Darby, just great...........all are valuable work performed by mankind in the sight of our Father.

You love and believe Jesus for Who He is, so do I, brother.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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The only problem with that is God said His word is truth, yet, the different version contain different truths. There's more to the Bible than the message of salvation. Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. If I don't have every word, how can I live for God the way He purposed me to live?



I believe everyone should leave the brethren to read the version given them to understand. I began reading the Word the first time using the Oxford Bible because when the Holy Spirit entered into me, one was provided me, miraculously, that night. Since I have read many versions, many languages, and because the Holy Spirit guides us, I get the same message from all.

I love th KJV, but I love all versions I have read, and none omit the message of salvation in believing Jesus Christ is the Only begotten Son of God, that is to say, He is Salvation.

Someone like the ASB, fine, stuck on Darby, just great...........all are valuable work performed by mankind in the sight of our Father.

You love and believe Jesus for Who He is, so do I, brother.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The only problem with that is God said His word is truth, yet, the different version contain different truths. There's more to the Bible than the message of salvation. Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. If I don't have every word, how can I live for God the way He purposed me to live?

It seems you are confusing facts with truth. Here is a fact. The KJV originally held that Moses, when he descended the mount, had horns emitting from his head, while the actual translation would be rays. Look at the stature of Moses in the Vatican, and you will se him depicted with the stone tablets and also horns........this has no bearing on the truth of the Word, be it KJV or otherwise.

Again, many translations from the Hebrew texts are approximations because the Hebrew scholars today do not know the exact meaning of many of the words. This has not changed the understanding we receive by the Holy Spirit........ Nothing will alter the truth, but facts can be off. Most facts will go with the fire next time, but the truth will endure forever.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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If facts can be off then it's not a fact. You're playing with words. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Every word of Scripture must be true because it was given by God.


It seems you are confusing facts with truth. Here is a fact. The KJV originally held that Moses, when he descended the mount, had horns emitting from his head, while the actual translation would be rays. Look at the stature of Moses in the Vatican, and you will se him depicted with the stone tablets and also horns........this has no bearing on the truth of the Word, be it KJV or otherwise.

Again, many translations from the Hebrew texts are approximations because the Hebrew scholars today do not know the exact meaning of many of the words. This has not changed the understanding we receive by the Holy Spirit........ Nothing will alter the truth, but facts can be off. Most facts will go with the fire next time, but the truth will endure forever.
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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I have just demonstrated how the KJV is not perfect, yet the fact that Moses was said to have horns hads no bearing on the salvation that is Jesus Christ. Also, I indicate facts can be wrong, this is true in science, when fact that have been taken as truth have proven to be false.

You know what it means when one says truth never changes, correct? It is the Holy Spirit Tht gives life to text, not the text. Meditate on this truth.......God bless you always.


If facts can be off then it's not a fact. You're playing with words. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Every word of Scripture must be true because it was given by God.