Healing: A Question to Ponder
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T
That's just it..... I don't know.......i think a lot of people are being "myopic" when it comes to who God wants to heal and white he doesn't want to heal.....i think it goes beyond that....there are lost people everywhere.....there are people God wants to reach but only he knows how they can be reached.....i feel for what Lynn and her husband are going through truly I do... I read her posts all the time to see how they're doing.... But what if this isn't about healing....what if this is about something else, something he needs for them to do but we haven't helped them figure it out yet....the whole you have to have faith enough to be healed thing I think there is some partial truth to that...but what if there's something God wants some for him that's special...especially with today's world and the way people are nowadays....it takes a special way to reach people today, sometimes something we would never think of...i don't think Lynn and her husband's healing have anything to do with faith....i think without knowing it there's a mission there somewhere
T
I don't know if this will make any sense to anyone, like I've said numerous times I am the least of all the learned folks on here....but...i was given this and I would like to pass it on to Lynn and her husband.....2 chronicles 20:22...this was where King Jehoshaphat prayed to God for he was overwhelmed by a whole bunch of other folks... So he prayed hard and so did all of Judah.. So when they went out before all these armies instead of a war strategy they went out and began to sing and praise... They formed a choir to go up against an army... And when they did the LORD set ambushes against all those people (three different sets I think it was) and they all got defeated and even destroyed themselves.. God has already won our battles for us, and HIS interest is involving us to build our faith and/or the faith of others... Maybe it's even more than just faith...
Because we have a choice whether to place our faith in him or not.
In terms of "studying the scriptures", please listen to him, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." He could not be any clearer.
So, how is God's "reasoning" different than ours? The scriptures say we are justified in killing our enemies (1 Sam. 15:1-3) ... so do we listen to that scripture, or do we listen to the Light? Does our human reason 'conclude' that there is not a contradiction between killing the women, children and infants of 'our enemies' versus "love your enemies"?
In terms of "studying the scriptures", please listen to him, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." He could not be any clearer.
So, how is God's "reasoning" different than ours? The scriptures say we are justified in killing our enemies (1 Sam. 15:1-3) ... so do we listen to that scripture, or do we listen to the Light? Does our human reason 'conclude' that there is not a contradiction between killing the women, children and infants of 'our enemies' versus "love your enemies"?
L
I was saved into the Charismatic movement. So my earliest experience was all about these gifts. "What gifts do you have?" "Must have some gifts." And so on.
I think they over emphasize them sometimes. Then later, I sort of rebounded back past the neutral center and got very strict about word studies. A bible church. Word and only more Word. No more goofing around and sit quietly still.
It is fascinating that you mention your wife's experience at that age. I came to faith at 18. But when I was about 6 there was an event that I will never forget. My mom left us kids alone at home. It was the 60s. No big deal!
My brother and I were in our backyard playing baseball with the neighborhood kids. There was a disputed call at 2nd base and an argument ensued. So one of the neighborhood kids picked up second base, which was a plank of wood with two nails in it on one and swung it at my brother. The nails caught him just below his eye and slit him wide open. He was bleeding very badly. While still standing there for a few seconds shocked and not knowing what to do, I looked up and my great grandmother was suddenly there. It was a small town and she lived about 10 minutes away.
She drove him to get medical help. Later on the adults were discussing this and they asked how she knew to come to our house or why did she? She said "I don't know? I just felt really strongly that I needed to go there." She was an old conservative Lutheran. She was not seeking signs or gifts or anything like that. I am not certain, but I do not think that they believe in such things??
But if you have not already done the math in your head, she HAD to have received this 'impression' and driven, or started driving, BEFORE my brother even got hit! Yeah... me too.
I am not sure if she ever fully appreciated what happened that day? All she would ever say is I left in such a hurry I forgot to turn off the water hose that she was watering the garden with when she got the impression. Returning, hours later, the garden was now a 'pond'. So she would just get embarrassed about that. And people would express amazement and ask what about the boy? And, always practical as she was, she would just say "he needed to go the doctor" and really say no more.
She witnessed a miracle, no... she PARTICIPATED in a miracle, and all she worried about was over watering the garden. LOL
But there was no way this was a mere coincidence. She said she got a strong 'impression'. (exactly how does one describe such events?) And that conservative old German Lutheran woman may not have gone around calling down fire from Heaven, but she did not tell lies!
I don't know if this is a 'gift', but it was something supernatural. And I think it would fall under the category of gifts.
She 'laid hands' on him... when picking him up and putting him into the car to drive to the doctors office! So no miraculous healing. Not even attempted. But everything we needed to take care of the situation was provided. And in a timely manner.
If it were up to me, I might trade gifts for escaping the ramifications of that ominous biblical passage. But it is not up to me.
God bless.
I think they over emphasize them sometimes. Then later, I sort of rebounded back past the neutral center and got very strict about word studies. A bible church. Word and only more Word. No more goofing around and sit quietly still.
It is fascinating that you mention your wife's experience at that age. I came to faith at 18. But when I was about 6 there was an event that I will never forget. My mom left us kids alone at home. It was the 60s. No big deal!
My brother and I were in our backyard playing baseball with the neighborhood kids. There was a disputed call at 2nd base and an argument ensued. So one of the neighborhood kids picked up second base, which was a plank of wood with two nails in it on one and swung it at my brother. The nails caught him just below his eye and slit him wide open. He was bleeding very badly. While still standing there for a few seconds shocked and not knowing what to do, I looked up and my great grandmother was suddenly there. It was a small town and she lived about 10 minutes away.
She drove him to get medical help. Later on the adults were discussing this and they asked how she knew to come to our house or why did she? She said "I don't know? I just felt really strongly that I needed to go there." She was an old conservative Lutheran. She was not seeking signs or gifts or anything like that. I am not certain, but I do not think that they believe in such things??
But if you have not already done the math in your head, she HAD to have received this 'impression' and driven, or started driving, BEFORE my brother even got hit! Yeah... me too.
I am not sure if she ever fully appreciated what happened that day? All she would ever say is I left in such a hurry I forgot to turn off the water hose that she was watering the garden with when she got the impression. Returning, hours later, the garden was now a 'pond'. So she would just get embarrassed about that. And people would express amazement and ask what about the boy? And, always practical as she was, she would just say "he needed to go the doctor" and really say no more.
She witnessed a miracle, no... she PARTICIPATED in a miracle, and all she worried about was over watering the garden. LOL
But there was no way this was a mere coincidence. She said she got a strong 'impression'. (exactly how does one describe such events?) And that conservative old German Lutheran woman may not have gone around calling down fire from Heaven, but she did not tell lies!
I don't know if this is a 'gift', but it was something supernatural. And I think it would fall under the category of gifts.
She 'laid hands' on him... when picking him up and putting him into the car to drive to the doctors office! So no miraculous healing. Not even attempted. But everything we needed to take care of the situation was provided. And in a timely manner.
If it were up to me, I might trade gifts for escaping the ramifications of that ominous biblical passage. But it is not up to me.
God bless.
I don't know what all these experiences mean except that God has His way of dealing with us and not always does He do it the same way for everyone. My brother was with me while I was driving in my 1st car- a 1970 something Chevy Vega. It was 1978 or something. Anyway., being new at the driving experience, we got on the thru way for the first time. After finding it was terrifying to be between all those cars, we frantically sought to get off. I went off the thruway and around into a one way lane that allowed 1 car at a time onto the thruway. The 1 car coming at us actually past right through us. We braced for a crash but it didn't happen and we saw it pass through us.
We both were stunned and just looked at each other and I said....did you see what just happened?? Did we really see this??? He said Yes, I saw it but I can't believe it.,that car went right through us! I was 17 and he was 15. Being a very religious person my first thought was always God. And has been as long as I can remember. Didn't get saved until 1982 so didn't know all the 'rules'
The other day while watching Youtube there was a train load of people from Bangladesh or some way off place like that. People were inside, outside.,on top of and hanging on the sides of this train. People covered this train like it was made of people instead of metal. They were trying to get out of the awful city where killing was taking place. Men, women and children by the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Each one important to God, each one extremely interested in surviving and being safe.
I tried to look at the faces of the people but it was too far a picture to see close ups of their faces. Just saw hundreds and hundreds of fellow humans desperately seeking to survive on this loooong train. Why was "I" on a computer safe at my job watching them on the screen? Why was I allowed to be given my life., a job and a home and bills to pay? Why were the people I was caring for elderly people who already had lead full lives and were now living in a memory care unit for the last of their days to be in comfort and ease? Some of these people sweet and kind and uncomplaining while others of them were demanding and finding nothing to be thankful about. Some Christians some not.
Why were there so many on that train who were suffering and afraid? Many older men and women trying to just survive the next hour? And many young men and women on this train with babies. There were many orphaned children alone. These people may never have a chance to live a full and long life to even get to their 50s like me or their 80s and 90s like the people where I work.
There is no way to figure out why things are the way they are to the detail. But for sure Jesus has promised to SAVE those who trust in Him. We can count on that relationship. We are dealt with one on one with Him EVEN when we look at the world with all it's confusions and contradictions. Some healed some not healed. God treats us as sons now.
I believe in healing because it's in the Bible and I'm a son of God in Christ. I believe that Jesus paid for my healing and it will come. Even in the face of everyone's experiences including my own., God's Word stands regardless and we have a new fresh hope every day for Him to do as He promised.
The Bible tells us SPECIFICALLY not to look at the world or the things in the world or at other people in the world for our hope. We can be either encouraged or discouraged by those things. But the truth is found ONLY in Christ and what He has done and what He has promised. So when I read things from Ben and Grace777 I read about faith in Jesus and the promises consistently. You guys contend for the faith., for the amazing love and goodness of God and the encouragement to believe in His love for us and His watch care over His children. We are not like the world who have no hope! I like reading what you guys say because it is about faith in God's Word and not faith in our experiences.
I don't even read posts from believers that refuse to accept by faith the promises of God. I believe in Psalm 23 not for when we die but for while we are alive here. What good are the promises when we are dead? God wants us to have faith NOW while we are living here on the planet. When we get to Heaven we won't need healing or faith. We will have it all without exercising faith.
It's called the good fight of faith... not the insane fight of human reasoning. God is not to be understood and figured out by sight. We can only KNOW Him by faith as we are called to believe constantly in the Bible. Not that we loved God but that HE LOVED US.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance the confirmation, the title deed of the things we hope for, being the proof of things we do not see and the conviction of their reality - faith PERCEIVING as REAL FACT what is NOT revealed to the senses. Amplified Bible.
D
I got to thin'in' last night. (A reference to a cartoon -- although I can't remember which one -- but the entire line is "I'll do the thin-in' 'round here!" lol) For this whole thread, I've been using two words interchangeably, and they don't interchange always -- "healing." "Miracle."
God does both. Or he does one or the other. Or he does neither -- at least for physical problems. If God chooses miracle, it's really obvious and happens immediately. At no time in scripture did he ever recommend "two aspirins and call me in the morning." At least, he never did for miracles. And yet, Paul gave a homespun remedy to Timothy for a tummy ache -- a little wine. "A little wine" means it wasn't God's plan to miraculously heal Timothy. It was a response, by letter, after hearing Tim was sick, so we can safely assume prayers were given by qualified folks. Since there is a second letter to Timothy, I'm guessing Tim was healed eventually. That too is by God. It wasn't a miracle.
Hubby survives. He had a 10% - 15% chance of surviving that first night, so that can't be a miracle, even if I feel it was miraculous. Miracle happens against the laws of nature, and our current laws gave doctors the right skill at the right time to perform the right measures to keep hubby alive. So not a miracle. BUT God was definitely in all of it, because of hubby surviving until we got him to the hospital, and then that hospital didn't do stents, so he was transferred, and so many other things went wrong, but he has survived them too. I see the looks on the doctors and nurses faces when they read his history in the last three months. Maybe all told it is a miracle, because they usually read that kind of history in the autopsy room, not while looking at the person, and the person looks back and flashes a big grin.
Either way, no doubt -- God working this all out for John's good and God's glory, and not in that order. But we don't yet know where this is going in the near future. We know where it's going in God's infinity. (At least, I do. Y'all don't know John, so you might not be as sure as I am. lol) Ultimately, John gets his face-to-face eternity with God. The where and when isn't seen yet.
John may be healed and may come home. (I am 90% optimistic on that one.) If full-fledged miracle, he comes home way before the doctors and therapists say he does. It is an option from God, just as a slow heal is an option, just as no heal/stay the same/death is an option. The same deal with every single person who goes into the hospital or comes out -- patients, staff, visitors, appointment keepers, or vendors. All run on God's will and God's timing.
Waiting around for years and years, the prefect steps or mindset, and/or or the book and CD not required.
God does both. Or he does one or the other. Or he does neither -- at least for physical problems. If God chooses miracle, it's really obvious and happens immediately. At no time in scripture did he ever recommend "two aspirins and call me in the morning." At least, he never did for miracles. And yet, Paul gave a homespun remedy to Timothy for a tummy ache -- a little wine. "A little wine" means it wasn't God's plan to miraculously heal Timothy. It was a response, by letter, after hearing Tim was sick, so we can safely assume prayers were given by qualified folks. Since there is a second letter to Timothy, I'm guessing Tim was healed eventually. That too is by God. It wasn't a miracle.
Hubby survives. He had a 10% - 15% chance of surviving that first night, so that can't be a miracle, even if I feel it was miraculous. Miracle happens against the laws of nature, and our current laws gave doctors the right skill at the right time to perform the right measures to keep hubby alive. So not a miracle. BUT God was definitely in all of it, because of hubby surviving until we got him to the hospital, and then that hospital didn't do stents, so he was transferred, and so many other things went wrong, but he has survived them too. I see the looks on the doctors and nurses faces when they read his history in the last three months. Maybe all told it is a miracle, because they usually read that kind of history in the autopsy room, not while looking at the person, and the person looks back and flashes a big grin.
Either way, no doubt -- God working this all out for John's good and God's glory, and not in that order. But we don't yet know where this is going in the near future. We know where it's going in God's infinity. (At least, I do. Y'all don't know John, so you might not be as sure as I am. lol) Ultimately, John gets his face-to-face eternity with God. The where and when isn't seen yet.
John may be healed and may come home. (I am 90% optimistic on that one.) If full-fledged miracle, he comes home way before the doctors and therapists say he does. It is an option from God, just as a slow heal is an option, just as no heal/stay the same/death is an option. The same deal with every single person who goes into the hospital or comes out -- patients, staff, visitors, appointment keepers, or vendors. All run on God's will and God's timing.
Waiting around for years and years, the prefect steps or mindset, and/or or the book and CD not required.
D
Jesus told us what our "choice" was, (and always is, until he gives us salvation anyway), and what God wrought/worked anyway for some.
John 3:16-21
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
John 3:16-21
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
T
This is a statement I think should be in every forum.... In every thread.....it is the power of love between two people... It isn't he power of GODS love that keeps them together.... It is the power of God. That gives them another day together.....it is the power of God that shows through them what the important things in life truly truly are....... It is the power of faith the show everyday in staying together... Now, you may say well of course they are still together they are married.... How many marriages today have dissolved for much less.....well they love each other... How many people love each other yet when trials happen they find temporary comfort somewhere else....if we look for the miraculous in the things people do things that are "mind blowing".... We may miss the true miracles and examples of faith, hope and love in what are to some people just an everyday natural occurance........ God bless you and john....
Hi BenFTW, you are speaking from physical healing which heals us from deseases and handycaps which struggle mankind since God cursed Adam and Eva?
To be healed from our deseases is only relevant for us, if we got healed while we live in our present body. When we are with the Lord in heaven and have our new eternaly body this is no more relevant to be healed or not, because we cant die anymore.
If i am understand you rigth, then you mean to be sick ore not is a question of our faith.
Then we must recognize that Jesus came to earth not for to heal the mankind physically. He came for to set us free from the curse and penalty of sin and for to gave us back the relationship with God the father which Adam and Eve had before sinning. All people which Jesus healed during his service on earth, died. If they were not killed through accident, other people ore suicide they almost died because of deseases and weakness of the body. And also all healing we will receive today, is temporary and the most of us will die because of a desease.
The reason why Jesus healed people we find in John 20,30-31. His Miracles and healings were signs. Signs which prooved that he is the promissed Messiah. The Son of God!
The Healings and miracles which we read about in acts are for tho proof that God Almighty is standing behind the Gospel.
We have this in past and today also in missionfields that God shows through prayer of his servants that he is behind the Gospel. That he has the power about the Devil and his demons.
If you suggest now, that Jesus wants heal every believer and it is only a thing to believe it, then this is a message i cant find in the bible and i cant find in life.
I work in hospital and i cant renember to find anybody who was lucky to stay there. Special the older people suffer because of getting older and sicker and weaker. We all want live in health and comfort, this wish is normal, but not normal reality.
If we talk about believers. If you suggest that it is up to the believer to be sick ore not, because of his lack in faith, what for a message this is? Sorry this is promissing something, what Jesus never had promissed. It is a faith destroying message, because we expierience that we not be healed. And we will blame for that, because according your suggestion its up to our faith.
Sorry, this is not what Jesus want for our lifes. And it is a hit in the face of all sick believers in Christ, which suffering painful exhorting deseases. What Jesus want from us is, that we trust him and obey him in all situations. Health and wealth ore poor and sick.
And we can now that we are Gods beloved children, which he is carrying through the life. the good and the bad times, till we reach our heavenly home.
Dont destroy the faith of believers through promisses which Jesus never made.
If i understand your writing wrong, then sorry for that.
To be healed from our deseases is only relevant for us, if we got healed while we live in our present body. When we are with the Lord in heaven and have our new eternaly body this is no more relevant to be healed or not, because we cant die anymore.
If i am understand you rigth, then you mean to be sick ore not is a question of our faith.
Then we must recognize that Jesus came to earth not for to heal the mankind physically. He came for to set us free from the curse and penalty of sin and for to gave us back the relationship with God the father which Adam and Eve had before sinning. All people which Jesus healed during his service on earth, died. If they were not killed through accident, other people ore suicide they almost died because of deseases and weakness of the body. And also all healing we will receive today, is temporary and the most of us will die because of a desease.
The reason why Jesus healed people we find in John 20,30-31. His Miracles and healings were signs. Signs which prooved that he is the promissed Messiah. The Son of God!
The Healings and miracles which we read about in acts are for tho proof that God Almighty is standing behind the Gospel.
We have this in past and today also in missionfields that God shows through prayer of his servants that he is behind the Gospel. That he has the power about the Devil and his demons.
If you suggest now, that Jesus wants heal every believer and it is only a thing to believe it, then this is a message i cant find in the bible and i cant find in life.
I work in hospital and i cant renember to find anybody who was lucky to stay there. Special the older people suffer because of getting older and sicker and weaker. We all want live in health and comfort, this wish is normal, but not normal reality.
If we talk about believers. If you suggest that it is up to the believer to be sick ore not, because of his lack in faith, what for a message this is? Sorry this is promissing something, what Jesus never had promissed. It is a faith destroying message, because we expierience that we not be healed. And we will blame for that, because according your suggestion its up to our faith.
Sorry, this is not what Jesus want for our lifes. And it is a hit in the face of all sick believers in Christ, which suffering painful exhorting deseases. What Jesus want from us is, that we trust him and obey him in all situations. Health and wealth ore poor and sick.
And we can now that we are Gods beloved children, which he is carrying through the life. the good and the bad times, till we reach our heavenly home.
Dont destroy the faith of believers through promisses which Jesus never made.
If i understand your writing wrong, then sorry for that.
I wish his "means" worked a little faster..lol.. And what's the sense in healing me AFTER I die? I'll have an eternal, sinless, pain free body by then and won't need healing..
Stem cells are the future. Not embryonic cells from a fetus, but a persons own stem cells have been havested to treat conditions already. Kobe Bryant flew to Europe and had Regenokine to treat inflammation in his knee. Stanford University is using stem cells in trials right now to treat soldiers coming back suffering from tinnitus (a permanent ringing in the ears). They are regenerating the hair cells inside the cochlea that have been destoyed through loud sounds and blast waves. They estimate that within 30 years they'll be able to regenerate entire human limbs. Imagine no more mechanical prosthetics!
