If homosexuality is an abomination to God, why do some Christians support it?
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K
While I agree on some of your points there are others I disagree with. No one is taking one persons comments and picking them apart for entertainment. When we say the God of the OT says homosexuality is an abomination,and Jesus of the NT is in complete agreement with God the Father that should be the end of the subject. We all know that God/Jesus are one and are in complete agreement. But we have a poster that is insisting that Jesus didn't speak the words out of His own mouth so He didn't agree with the Father. This is false doctrine and false teaching. Of course God/Jesus are in perfect agreement.Yet this poster refuses to admit this. And this poster knows better. And so round and round we go. It certainly isn't for entertainments sake,I assure you. There is no reason for this. But when someone is propagating false doctrine Im not about to let that pass. The God of the OT is Jesus of the NT in that they are separate but One.They are in complete agreement at all times. People act like the God of the OT was a hateful,vengeful,murderer but Jesus in the NT was a pacifist,all love, totally ok with sin and particularly homosexuality. Im just not going to let that nonsense pass.I don't care who posts it.
K
The Bible says the Gospel is a "stumbling block and rock of offense" to those who do not believe. Now do we love sinners? Yes! Do we love all sinners? Yes! Do we all sin? Yes! But are we to live and continue in our sin? No. As we mature as Christians we should not be continuing to live a sinful life. But I am disturbed by this new idea in the church that you can love homosexuals into the church and obscure the truth,Jesus didn't say anything against it,and they will come to church and be Christians. If we just love them enough they won't be offended by the message,the truth. If we just say Jesus was a cool dude and hung with sinners,they'll come to church. If we just wrap the message so it offends no one they will come.This is so very dangerous. The Bible says we are light,yes,and salt. People need to know the truth,they need to know homosexuality and any other sin is bondage and they need to be see free! But when a person says this you have people jump all over you saying "well this is a sin and that is a sin" obscuring the path and the truth because they are afraid to offend. When Jesus spoke to people in the Bible he forgave their sin, He never said "well this is sin and that is sin and really your sin isn't bad or worse than others." No! He pointed to their sin,they admitted they were sinners and He forgave them and said "go and don't do it again". I will not obscure the path and try to confuse people into coming to church with a false Gospel.
Some christians seem to claim that as long as their a good person that all that matters. I even came to know some that didnt believe in the bible 100%. The bible is gods word. So no matter what we think, it makes it clear that homosexuality is wrong and if your a christian, supporting this is a big no no. I think some struggle with that "is gods word really true" syndrome. Its not healthy and I hope more christians start following the word 100% instead of taking tidbits from His word and only following what they "think" is right.
IMO, if a christian condones homosexuality, whether openly or secretly, then that person is NOT a true christian. No christian in their right mind would condone or support such immoral, un-natural immoral behavior. Love the homo, but hate their sin, and definitely don't condone it!!! If you have to scare them into repenting by telling them their sin will send them to hell, so be it. They SHOULD be scared.
That comment in red is absolute hogwash!! Homosexuals cannot become saved if they don't know God, nor can a homosexual be a christian. Homosexuals don't know God, or they would not even entertain the idea of turning gay. I have yet to meet a christian homosexual, and I know ALOT of gay people. Oh and alcoholics do NOT take another drink "by mistake". That's ludicrous. They know full well what they're doing, as do homosexuals. :/
K
Quote " Saying that a homosexual that has been saved has to immediately stop his sin is just as ludicrous as saying that an alcoholic can never ever take another drink by mistake."
No,I don't expect any one to become a Christian and be mature overnight. No one is saying that the struggle is wrong. In fact each of us struggles against one sin or another. There is a difference in the struggle and falling and getting back up again. Fellow Christians ought to be there to support and pray people through. No,that is not the issue.The issue is obscuring the truth for fear of offending,the PC Gospel. To say Jesus didn't say anything against homosexuality is wrong and playing the PC game. Jesus as God said homosexuality is wrong. If we can't agree on that,the basis of truth then there is no where to go.
G
Consider this from the great Apostle Paul
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Maybe we should consider preaching to the homosexual population and bring the message of the gospel??
Just a thought.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Maybe we should consider preaching to the homosexual population and bring the message of the gospel??
Just a thought.
Hey Kayla, Your love for the Lord is very evident to me. I love you as a sister in Christ so please don't take offense, but your post is a little confusing to me.
Are you saying that if 2 openly homosexual men came to your Church you wouldn't welcome them? I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I am in no way saying that homosexuality is anything but sinful behavior, and I don't think a single Word of your Pastor has planned to speak on should be changed. But isn't it true that the homosexual, like all sinners, must hear the Gospel, as outlined in John 3:16 and Romans 10:9, as well as other places, acknowledge that they are sinners, accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and THEN have the power to turn from their sin?
So if they don't hear the message, which in my opinion should include the Gospel at some point in the service, how can they accept Jesus and turn from their sin?
AGAIN, I am NOT suggesting watering down the message. I am merely saying we sHOULD be welcoming ALL types of sinners, but it ISN'T US that are going to change them.
Peace, Grace and Love to you sister.
Are you saying that if 2 openly homosexual men came to your Church you wouldn't welcome them? I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I am in no way saying that homosexuality is anything but sinful behavior, and I don't think a single Word of your Pastor has planned to speak on should be changed. But isn't it true that the homosexual, like all sinners, must hear the Gospel, as outlined in John 3:16 and Romans 10:9, as well as other places, acknowledge that they are sinners, accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and THEN have the power to turn from their sin?
So if they don't hear the message, which in my opinion should include the Gospel at some point in the service, how can they accept Jesus and turn from their sin?
AGAIN, I am NOT suggesting watering down the message. I am merely saying we sHOULD be welcoming ALL types of sinners, but it ISN'T US that are going to change them.
Peace, Grace and Love to you sister.
There are 2 liberal interpretations of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13.
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). A Rabbi told me the prohibition in Leviticus 18 referred to inter-family relationships. The whole chapter is about unlawful sexual unions between relatives. The subject is set in vs 6; "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord" (Leviticus 18:6). So in the Rabbi's opinion, "mankind" meant someone who was kin to you. It was not a law against 2 unrelated males, but in-laws etc.
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). The same non-orthodox Rabbi interpreted this prohibition as referring to ritualistic behavior. The first 6 verses of the chapter set the subject, the pagan prostitutes of surrounding tribes would perform unnatural homosexual acts at their temple, this was symbolic of giving their seed to their god Molech. So in the Rabbi's opinion, this was not applicable to people born gay, but for the strait males who indulged in perverted sexual acts in the worship of Molech. God did not want the Israelites to emulate those pagan practices.
I personally don't agree with either view, but thought I'd mention how some justify homosexuality. The good Rabbi also quoted Romans 1:23&24; "And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves". He claimed Paul was also referring to idolatry (temple worship), for the reason God gave them over to the lustful perversions of idol worship. Why a Rabbi read the new testament, I don't know?
So imo, some Christians interpret the verses prohibiting same sex relations as pertaining to perversion, or with Leviticus 18:22, as being applied to idolatry. In 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, and Romans 1:24-28, they reconcile Paul's use of words like; "lust of their own hearts" and losing the "natural use" of men/women, both of which seem very specific, as only being applicable to unnatural perverted sex. Therefore, its excludes a person who was born gay, and justifies their behavior as 'natural'.
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). A Rabbi told me the prohibition in Leviticus 18 referred to inter-family relationships. The whole chapter is about unlawful sexual unions between relatives. The subject is set in vs 6; "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord" (Leviticus 18:6). So in the Rabbi's opinion, "mankind" meant someone who was kin to you. It was not a law against 2 unrelated males, but in-laws etc.
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). The same non-orthodox Rabbi interpreted this prohibition as referring to ritualistic behavior. The first 6 verses of the chapter set the subject, the pagan prostitutes of surrounding tribes would perform unnatural homosexual acts at their temple, this was symbolic of giving their seed to their god Molech. So in the Rabbi's opinion, this was not applicable to people born gay, but for the strait males who indulged in perverted sexual acts in the worship of Molech. God did not want the Israelites to emulate those pagan practices.
I personally don't agree with either view, but thought I'd mention how some justify homosexuality. The good Rabbi also quoted Romans 1:23&24; "And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves". He claimed Paul was also referring to idolatry (temple worship), for the reason God gave them over to the lustful perversions of idol worship. Why a Rabbi read the new testament, I don't know?
So imo, some Christians interpret the verses prohibiting same sex relations as pertaining to perversion, or with Leviticus 18:22, as being applied to idolatry. In 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, and Romans 1:24-28, they reconcile Paul's use of words like; "lust of their own hearts" and losing the "natural use" of men/women, both of which seem very specific, as only being applicable to unnatural perverted sex. Therefore, its excludes a person who was born gay, and justifies their behavior as 'natural'.
K
Quote "Are you saying that if 2 openly homosexual men came to your Church you wouldn't welcome them? I may have misunderstood what you were saying."
Yes, you misunderstood. A friend of mine invited two lesbians to a concert I was singing. I treated them no differently than any other person attending the service. You're right,nothing should be changed for any sinner that comes to hear the Gospel. Im still convicted when my pastor preaches if Im not doing what God wants of me. So,yes the Holy Spirit convicts us all. What I am saying is that some people are afraid we will offend people if we preach those parts of the Bible that talk of homosexuality. Now Im not saying preach hell fire directly at a homosexual and point them out when they come to church. But we have to let them know that God/Jesus has a new path,a new life and they don't need to be in bondage anymore.
Quote "So if they don't hear the message, which in my opinion should include the Gospel at some point in the service, how can they accept Jesus and turn from their sin?"
Exactly,they should hear the Gospel. But don't obscure the way. When you say "well Jesus didn't SAY anything against homosexuality" you're obscuring the truth,you are being untruthful at the same time. How can they be set free if they don't know what they need to be set free from?
Quote "AGAIN, I am NOT suggesting watering down the message. I am merely saying we sHOULD be welcoming ALL types of sinners, but it ISN'T US that are going to change them."
We're in total agreement.
Love to you too brother and thanks for such a thoughtful and mature post.
I must admit, on occasion, I've tried to justify myself with scripture. "Drink a little wine for thy stomachs sake" is a good one for getting loaded 
. And "Thou shalt not steal" certainly can't apply to a hungry person stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family . "Seek and ye shall find" often has us finding what suits us, and we inevitably interpret verses to excuse what's actually written in favor of what we want or think. Thereby, guilt goes out the door and presto, we're justified
. And "Thou shalt not steal" certainly can't apply to a hungry person stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family . "Seek and ye shall find" often has us finding what suits us, and we inevitably interpret verses to excuse what's actually written in favor of what we want or think. Thereby, guilt goes out the door and presto, we're justified
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