Once Saved Always saved....Read this
- Thread starter Josefnospam
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I mean think of this, I thought that all one had to do to be saved to be a Christian was to accept him to say he is Lord to know Jesus died for my sins. But see there seems to be a vast difference in believers these days, I have met many who never made an actual connection with him an actual relationship with him and thus they greatly lack any kind of love or fruit of god.
vs. a christian with an actual love an actual connection and bind with him their fruits are vast and endless they shine so much of his heart. So then are then those who never have such a thing with him really saved or are they Christian by title only? I do not know this answer to this yet
vs. a christian with an actual love an actual connection and bind with him their fruits are vast and endless they shine so much of his heart. So then are then those who never have such a thing with him really saved or are they Christian by title only? I do not know this answer to this yet
The difference between Paul and the folks who dissociate from the sinful flesh in their minds is that Paul's solution is to not obey the flesh. The others only identify with the new man and pretend like the old man doesn't even exist. Hard to control something that you're pretending doesn't even exist.
T
2 Timothy 4:6-8
[*=1]For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
[*=1]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
[*=1]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
... and if I just vanish from the board suddenly ... you will know why 
If you vanish..it means the scooter is ready...
2 Timothy 4:6-8
[*=1]For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
[*=1]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
[*=1]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
... and if I just vanish from the board suddenly ... you will know why
There is a simple point here. I am not your legalist past. You want to project on to me something that is in your mind but not what I write. You say I am trying to justify myself by obedience to Christ. No I am obeying Christ because I love Him.
If you are over a ravine, and there is a drop on both sides of a small plank, and you are told to cross on the plank, saying the other person has to do the walking is of no use.
You have to trust the command, take your faith and walk. You are not saving yourself you are doing what you are told.
The other options are do something else or nothing. It is clear we are commanded to love, commanded to follow, commanded to make disciples. Now how is it if you love Christ you would not do these things, apart from them being good for you and the part of the walk? How is it that it is earning your salvation and not walking in it?
Do you not realise you have entered the Kingdom of Heaven, you are saved? As a saved individual you now need to claim you rights, exercise you spiritual gifts, walk in the Spirit and righteousness. It appears that you do not believe this has happened and are trapped in a prison. But Jesus can set you free. You just have to believe and walk.
If you are over a ravine, and there is a drop on both sides of a small plank, and you are told to cross on the plank, saying the other person has to do the walking is of no use.
You have to trust the command, take your faith and walk. You are not saving yourself you are doing what you are told.
The other options are do something else or nothing. It is clear we are commanded to love, commanded to follow, commanded to make disciples. Now how is it if you love Christ you would not do these things, apart from them being good for you and the part of the walk? How is it that it is earning your salvation and not walking in it?
Do you not realise you have entered the Kingdom of Heaven, you are saved? As a saved individual you now need to claim you rights, exercise you spiritual gifts, walk in the Spirit and righteousness. It appears that you do not believe this has happened and are trapped in a prison. But Jesus can set you free. You just have to believe and walk.
Yes....Paul says a lot in Romans 7:14-22 about sin in his flesh warring with the inner man...Paul also said that it is "knowing" that the "old man" is dead is paramount in dealing with sin in the flesh in our minds.
The "old man" died on the cross with Jesus..this is why certain people don't understand the difference between spirit which is the inner man of the heart and the flesh......there is still the flesh left which has the power of sin in it. These are the scriptures...
If we don't "know" that the old man is dead...we will never understand the new creation in Christ..created in righteousness and holiness....then the natural mind cannot understand this spiritual principal....This is the problem with some.
Romans 6:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6[/SUP] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, ( we have to know that we died before we can LIVE with Him )
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
am crucified with Christ = perfect passive = a done deal ...an action done in the past with a result being continuously in the present
Last edited:
E
See here you go. You do not see your fate, or your need of a savior. You think God is just telling you how to walk to save yourself. But he does not do the saving.
You just contradicted yourself. You said I lied, and say you are trying to save yourself. then say, You have to walk the plank to save yourself.
Reality is this, Jesus walked the plank for you, Because you were unable to walk the plank, It is called the cross.
Until you realise, You can not walk the plank, You will never realise you need saved. .
Yes, we, who are born of God, are commanded to love, Of course I already know this, We who are born again are commanded to do ALOT of things. You act as if I do not already know this or care about this..
Don't you understand you have to be born again first?
If your not born again, all you have is works. which are meaningless.
You have to be saved first.
We are saved, because we are hopeless. If your doing works to try to be saved, Or keep your salvation. You in danger. If you think walking the plank will save you,, you are rejecting the salvation of Christ.
You just contradicted yourself. You said I lied, and say you are trying to save yourself. then say, You have to walk the plank to save yourself.
Reality is this, Jesus walked the plank for you, Because you were unable to walk the plank, It is called the cross.
Until you realise, You can not walk the plank, You will never realise you need saved. .
Yes, we, who are born of God, are commanded to love, Of course I already know this, We who are born again are commanded to do ALOT of things. You act as if I do not already know this or care about this..
Don't you understand you have to be born again first?
If your not born again, all you have is works. which are meaningless.
You have to be saved first.
We are saved, because we are hopeless. If your doing works to try to be saved, Or keep your salvation. You in danger. If you think walking the plank will save you,, you are rejecting the salvation of Christ.
amen
why does Paul say no good thing dwells in his flesh? and Peter refers to the desires of the flesh as 'corrupt' and 'polluting' ?
the Spirit i received is holy, and urges me to walk righteously - just like you say, in the first part of the post i'm quoting - but my flesh is contrary to it, and and has desires contrary to it.
what i understood the gnostic view to be (there are many 'gnosticisms' but the one primarily being discussed in this thread) was that the flesh counted for nothing at all, and that grace superabounds wherever sin abounds, so the heresy was not just that it 'didn't matter what the flesh did' but more than that, that they actively debased themselves in the flesh by following after its lusts, thinking that by doing so they had all the more grace, and brought God all the more glory.
what i described of course is false (correct me if i'm wrong about the particular gnosticism you're talking about) -- but there's a difference in believing sinning all the more is some kind of celebration of grace, and believing that grace is able to cover all sin, except for deliberate unbelief an blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
that heretical view is addressed by Paul in Romans 6:1 -- God forbid!
i'm not really disagreeing with you; i just wanted to point out that the flesh (the outer man) is not of itself holy -- is it right to say, do you think, that it is because the inner man has been sanctified and made holy, that we ought to likewise keep the outward man from corruption, and walk holy? to fittingly and accurately reflect in the outward man the new, holy creation that God has made us inwardly?
why does Paul say no good thing dwells in his flesh? and Peter refers to the desires of the flesh as 'corrupt' and 'polluting' ?
the Spirit i received is holy, and urges me to walk righteously - just like you say, in the first part of the post i'm quoting - but my flesh is contrary to it, and and has desires contrary to it.
what i understood the gnostic view to be (there are many 'gnosticisms' but the one primarily being discussed in this thread) was that the flesh counted for nothing at all, and that grace superabounds wherever sin abounds, so the heresy was not just that it 'didn't matter what the flesh did' but more than that, that they actively debased themselves in the flesh by following after its lusts, thinking that by doing so they had all the more grace, and brought God all the more glory.
what i described of course is false (correct me if i'm wrong about the particular gnosticism you're talking about) -- but there's a difference in believing sinning all the more is some kind of celebration of grace, and believing that grace is able to cover all sin, except for deliberate unbelief an blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
that heretical view is addressed by Paul in Romans 6:1 -- God forbid!
i'm not really disagreeing with you; i just wanted to point out that the flesh (the outer man) is not of itself holy -- is it right to say, do you think, that it is because the inner man has been sanctified and made holy, that we ought to likewise keep the outward man from corruption, and walk holy? to fittingly and accurately reflect in the outward man the new, holy creation that God has made us inwardly?
T
If you vanish..it means the scooter is ready...
1) I came into a full understanding of grace recently
2)my thorn has just been removed ... Paul died not long after his thorn was removed
3) I have been thinking my time might be up soon ...
4) then God just gave me that scripture - and it felt personal.
Deep breath - Sooooo ......
If I vanish suddenly from the board ..............
Last edited by a moderator:
E
1. Everything you believe and preached. That was what I believed
2. Everything you do to others. I did
3. Every excuse you make, I made
4. Every lie you make about others to convince yourself your right, I did..
I do not talk to you to forget my past. or come out of it, I talk to you to free you from the slaver I was freed from called legalism
Again, You said I was stuck in the past. You lied. I am not stuck in the past. My hope is the future..
2. Everything you do to others. I did
3. Every excuse you make, I made
4. Every lie you make about others to convince yourself your right, I did..
I do not talk to you to forget my past. or come out of it, I talk to you to free you from the slaver I was freed from called legalism
Again, You said I was stuck in the past. You lied. I am not stuck in the past. My hope is the future..
There is a contradiction in peoples thinking. If God does not force His love on to us, it is a choice. If it is a choice, we can choose to walk away. If we can walk away, then it is possible to lose the relationship.
Now if I give an analogy of trusting the Lord in what we do, EG uses this as saying I am trying to earn my salvation.
This is why I call him a troll, 100%. I do not know how many times people have been in a dangerous situation and called out to the Lord and he has answered them. You are a saved person and the Lord gives guidance and reassurance. Now if someone wants to turn this into something else that is their problem.
I call this perversion and dishonesty. I am not saying difficult points or even wanting to deceive or lie yet this is what I am accused of. It is strange how a simple testimony or example can be turned like a barbed dart to accuse another of sin and lostness. Forgive them for they know not what they are doing is appropriate here. I only know one language of the heart, and all I can do is share. It is strange how wolves prowl desiring to tear others apart.
Now if I give an analogy of trusting the Lord in what we do, EG uses this as saying I am trying to earn my salvation.
This is why I call him a troll, 100%. I do not know how many times people have been in a dangerous situation and called out to the Lord and he has answered them. You are a saved person and the Lord gives guidance and reassurance. Now if someone wants to turn this into something else that is their problem.
I call this perversion and dishonesty. I am not saying difficult points or even wanting to deceive or lie yet this is what I am accused of. It is strange how a simple testimony or example can be turned like a barbed dart to accuse another of sin and lostness. Forgive them for they know not what they are doing is appropriate here. I only know one language of the heart, and all I can do is share. It is strange how wolves prowl desiring to tear others apart.
Let me put this simply. EG has said I am 100% what he used to be. Now unless he is actually God, he does not know this.
I do not know his history or doctrinal position but I doubt he believed that people are born with Gods love in their hearts but without a relationship to maintain it.
I doubt he believed people have free will and are able to walk in purity and righteousness.
I doubt he has gone through his emotional life and brought it into submission to Christ.
Now this is part of who I am, it is my life, not just a mild surface reality. Now every believer I know has this to some degree or other.
Yet EG did not know Jesus before his revelation. I do. EG had not experienced the Holy Spirit in His heart, I have.
EG did not understand the everlasting nature of love on the cross, I have and it has been foundational to all I have done since my late teenage years.
So I wonder who this man is, who claims to have all this, yet walked away into heresy, so obvious and blatent, it condemns normal followers of Christ as apostates. I call this delusion, 100%. I do not know this man nor do I wish to know anymore about him. He has already claimed to want to destroy me, which is a really amazingly gracious thing to do. But hey, trolls live on conflict and self belief. Sad, nothing of value here, just a husk of a person who sold out.
I do not know his history or doctrinal position but I doubt he believed that people are born with Gods love in their hearts but without a relationship to maintain it.
I doubt he believed people have free will and are able to walk in purity and righteousness.
I doubt he has gone through his emotional life and brought it into submission to Christ.
Now this is part of who I am, it is my life, not just a mild surface reality. Now every believer I know has this to some degree or other.
Yet EG did not know Jesus before his revelation. I do. EG had not experienced the Holy Spirit in His heart, I have.
EG did not understand the everlasting nature of love on the cross, I have and it has been foundational to all I have done since my late teenage years.
So I wonder who this man is, who claims to have all this, yet walked away into heresy, so obvious and blatent, it condemns normal followers of Christ as apostates. I call this delusion, 100%. I do not know this man nor do I wish to know anymore about him. He has already claimed to want to destroy me, which is a really amazingly gracious thing to do. But hey, trolls live on conflict and self belief. Sad, nothing of value here, just a husk of a person who sold out.