Once Saved Always saved....Read this
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E
i appreciate the light-heartedness 
welcome change from the "rawr rawr rawr" tone in much of this thread
welcome change from the "rawr rawr rawr" tone in much of this thread
Light heartedness, or mocking tone? Like people who are aligned together, mocking those who they are against by these silly jokes. And laughing at the other persons expense.
I think we see it differently.
Paul said disqualified for the prize, not disqualified for the gift of eternal life. Is salvation a prize that we race for to win or a gift that we receive by grace through faith? In context, Paul has been discussing preaching the gospel. In verse 18 he says, "What is my reward, then?" In verses 24-27 he illustrates this thought of his reward by the picture of a race run for the prize. We must pay attention to the context—this passage concerns reward, prize not losing salvation. Salvation is a gift that we receive by grace through faith, not a prize that we race for to win. Verse 24 settles the matter for me. 24 - Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. That sounds like running a race in the Olympics. All runners run but only one gets the gold medal. So what happens to the runners that get the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or from the prize, receiving the gold medal?
True!..
I noticed that what hinders our running in the "race" is trying to accomplish things in our flesh - our own self-effort ( us doing the Law ) as Paul talked about in Gal 5: 1-12
Galatians 5:4-9 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.
I noticed that what hinders our running in the "race" is trying to accomplish things in our flesh - our own self-effort ( us doing the Law ) as Paul talked about in Gal 5: 1-12
Galatians 5:4-9 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
A person after they are saved has the possibility to lose salvation,and the reason is they stopped allowing the Spirit to lead them.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
A person after they are saved has the possibility to lose salvation,and the reason is they stopped allowing the Spirit to lead them.
In a previous statement you stated that you stopped allowing the spirit to lead you. I'm here to tell you no one is above God and we cannot frustrate or stop God from doing anything he pleases. And he pleases to save a certain people and he will do it and has done it. He cannot and will not fail. I trust in his finished work and look to him for salvation. If I look to what I do, I fall a thousand times but he NEVER fails.
But our God is in heaven: he hath done whatsoever he pleases. Psalm 115:3
But our God is in heaven: he hath done whatsoever he pleases. Psalm 115:3
A
The doubt is not on Christ's sufficiency of sacrifice the devil's betting on believers to slip up...Rev/ch2 But I have this against you that you have left your 1st love . Therefore remember from where you have fallen, an "REPENT"(He's talking to believers here...he's not telling unbelievers to repent...these believers left their first love...) and do the deeds you did at first; Or else I am coming to you and shall "REMOVE" your LAMPSTAND out of its place!--(unless you repent) i.e. (the light--the spirit) would be removed. But of course you'll use some fancy tongue work an put a spin on scripture saying he dosnt mean loose your salvation there...jesus is completely sufficient on his end its the sinning believer (in this context) that are being told that they have to say the words...(not asking to be saved all over again like some ppl on here think this doctrine issue is about that's done one time only once!) but loosing their first love repenting is what this vs is saying an stating if you don't repent what will happen. supporting vs is 1st Cor.9 vs 27 But "I" keep my body (flesh) and bring it into subjection; lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, "I" MYSELF should be "CASTAWAY". (And that's not meaning put on an island with "Wilson" the volleyball either.)
A
well your answer to C is yes work out YOUR salvation in fear and trembling... 1st Cor.9 vs 27 But "I" meaning (paul) keep under my body, and bring it into subjection...yes its with the help of the spirit (the spirit tells the believer Hey take care of that matter...but its the believer that has to listen and address it(REPENT) The spirit isn't going to do it for you its a choice. No where in the bible does it say jesus keeps your flesh into subjection. if that were true we would never sin. He'll offer strength and even inaudible groans for us etc. all the tools to but you still gotta ask for them( i.e. pick them up and use them.) A believer can quench the spirit with sin. And that's where the devil is there whispering into your spirit imitating the spirit of light...1st Peter 1 v 17 if you address as Father the "one" who impartially judges according to each one's "work", CONDUCT YOURSELF" in fear during the time of your stay on thee earth. I am speaking to you in love...Romans ch15 vs14 I myself also am convinced that you YOURSELVES are "full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able also to "Admonish one another". this is purely biblical to administer reproof and caution of error; not my opinion or to shoot you down.
J
lose salvation? you mean hiding the talents in the ground and getting disqualified as a steward?
or do you mean getting spit out for being lukewarm?
why were the israelites disciplined so harshly? for forsaking their first love.
IMHO, we have a responsibility. if we don't bear fruit, what are we good for? kindling.
or do you mean getting spit out for being lukewarm?
why were the israelites disciplined so harshly? for forsaking their first love.
IMHO, we have a responsibility. if we don't bear fruit, what are we good for? kindling.
E
It nothing but preaching fear. and a lost hope to people who need hope and a savior.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Paul spoke of working out something you have in your possession.
It is like you have this great tool. which can do great things, But if you do not USE the tool, well then it is not very productive is it?
Paul is saying Use that tool you have (your salvation) in fear of not being used by God, and by your inaction of using this great thing God gave you. Your light will go out. and people will not be drawn to God through you.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Do all things without complaining and disputing, [SUP]15 [/SUP]that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
Nothing here about earning salvation, It is about not doing things which would cause your testimony of Christ to be destroyed or weakened.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Paul spoke of working out something you have in your possession.
It is like you have this great tool. which can do great things, But if you do not USE the tool, well then it is not very productive is it?
Paul is saying Use that tool you have (your salvation) in fear of not being used by God, and by your inaction of using this great thing God gave you. Your light will go out. and people will not be drawn to God through you.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Do all things without complaining and disputing, [SUP]15 [/SUP]that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
Nothing here about earning salvation, It is about not doing things which would cause your testimony of Christ to be destroyed or weakened.
E
Yeah I do.
I also know on our best days, we still fall so far short of Gods glory, we would not earn Gods love or forgiveness. So saying if we lose salt we will lose salvation puts everyone in danger, since no one is good enough.
salt is just flavor. It means our work will lose its power. and our affectiveness on the spiritual ware the world is in is lost.
It does not mean we lost our father..
No, the bible does not say this, For it would contradict itself.
It may seem to, But it does not.
You eather have to earn it or it is given to you by grace. (salvation)
Those are your only two options. Saying it can be lost. means grace is removed, and earning it is implied.
Thats dangerous
I also know on our best days, we still fall so far short of Gods glory, we would not earn Gods love or forgiveness. So saying if we lose salt we will lose salvation puts everyone in danger, since no one is good enough.
salt is just flavor. It means our work will lose its power. and our affectiveness on the spiritual ware the world is in is lost.
It does not mean we lost our father..
No, the bible does not say this, For it would contradict itself.
It may seem to, But it does not.
You eather have to earn it or it is given to you by grace. (salvation)
Those are your only two options. Saying it can be lost. means grace is removed, and earning it is implied.
Thats dangerous