Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[PeterJens]

Now I'm seeing the difference between between what they and I believe and practice.

For me, Christ is not my identity, but the one with whom I relate; the one with whom I have a relationship.

In psychology there is a description of a disfunctional family. Each personality in the family does not assert their boundaries properly but act like a single person when together. Each member takes on a role which the others need. It makes it difficult to understand the individual unless they are with the rest of the group.

In a functional family each is separate and distinct, full functioning and able to take on all roles within the group if needed. There are distinct boundaries and acknowledgement of need and respect.

This gnostic idea of no boundaries reminds me of the over involvement model where the individual cannot tell the difference between their behaviour and other members of the group. It leads to very needy possessive dynamics and rejection of anything that talks about individuality or self assertion which is regarded as wrong.

Now people who live without good boundaries in their lives get drawn to similar models in faith, because they can relate to the dynamics.

Like yourself I like boundaries and identity, and understanding what is giving and receiving. Unfortunately Pauls language is very involved, "It is no longer I that live, but Christ who lives in me" could be taken as a gnostic view or as an emotional expression everything He does is motivated by the work Christ has done in Him, not literally he is a possessed body with Christ in spirit form controlling all his actions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I found a website that tells what it's belief's are. The Hebrew Roots theology needs to be looked at to see where they are coming from and then we can understand the law vs grace issues associated with them.


This is from our CC very own JGIG's website...she has done extensive research on their beliefs.

https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/?s=Hebrew+roots

If you have a question, Ask him personally please, Do not go to another web site to try to figure out what he believes, Lets not be like HeRose or the others..

 

[Budman]

The illusion of knowing GOD through knowledge

rather than salvation through understanding, knowledge and wisdom

Ummmm...WHAT???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you have described is salvation by gnosis. The illusion of knowing GOD through knowledge (image in the mind), rather than salvation through understanding (in the heart), knowledge (in the mind) and wisdom (conduct of the body).

Yes, Please do not do like this guy here, and thinks he knows what other believes, because some man who has been dead for centuries told him what we believe.

 

[Gr8grace]

No. It does not.

I can image a similar conversation with you:

Me: Did Jesus die on the cross? Just a simple yes or no will do.

You: Well, it depends on what you mean by "die". Can God die? Did only His flesh die, or was it also spiritual death?

Me: Umm, did the man Jesus Christ die on the cross? Yes or no.

You: Hard to say. He was more than a man, right? Is it correct to say a mere man died?

Me: Did the physical man Jesus die on the cross? Just a simple yes or no.

You: Well, to physically die would mean the end of His flesh. Yet, He was raised in His flesh, so His flesh didn't "die" per se.

Me: Please shoot me in the head.

Spit coffee all over computer screen!

 

[Gr8grace]

What you have described is salvation by gnosis. The illusion of knowing GOD through knowledge (image in the mind), rather than salvation through understanding (in the heart), knowledge (in the mind) and wisdom (conduct of the body).

Acts 16:31.

 

[JaumeJ]

First, Hebrew Roots is a denomination of the Christian Theology, as are Baptist, SDA, Methodists, Lutherans, etc..

The Hebrew Roots movement and denomination attempts to take the church back to the time of Jesus Christ, Whom they call Yeshua Which is the same name. My problem is that the movement hold to the law without the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for He teaches us how to follow the law, and common sense taught by Jesus shows us which laws are still extgant.

I have no denomination, nor will I ever have one. My faith is the faith of Abraham, which Jesus Christ teaches, and it is mentioned several times in the New Testament.

Abraham, a Hebrew (from across the river), is our spiritual forefather. He was given the gospel long before Moses was given the Law, and If you study the Word well, you will find that some laws were given, that is statutes and ordinaces which were b ad, and not intended to be adhered to. Most folks overlook this.

If any wish to fault the Hebrew Roots movement cum denomination, I suggest he meditates on his own naval for a while.

I know the difference in denominations is founded on their differences of laws they have made for themselves taught as commandment from God, legalists in the books of many.

It is far easier to read the Word, believe it, learn by the Holy Spirit, and not worry about the laws verious denomnations make, taught as commandment from God, one of them teaches not to obey God, not even according to Jesus Christ.

God bless all who call on the name of Jesus Christ in spirit and truth. Come the time, our Father's tiem, you will be called out of the Great Whore and her daughters.

Does anyone know about the Hebrew Roots theology?...is it biblical?

 

[Budman]

What you have described is salvation by gnosis. The illusion of knowing GOD through knowledge (image in the mind), rather than salvation through understanding (in the heart), knowledge (in the mind) and wisdom (conduct of the body).

Good thing you went back and changed your post, huh?

 

[Grace777x70]

If you have a question, Ask him personally please, Do not go to another web site to try to figure out what he believes, Lets not be like HeRose or the others..

True...I could tell that he was adding law to grace in the idea of "law-keeping" in order to maintain salvation in Christ. It's the subtle terms used that makes it a bit confusing sometimes at first glance....but you can sense there's something not right here.

Law-keepers get it backwards...it's not the law that saves us...it's the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that saves us.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Acts 16:31.

​“Truly, truly I say to you, the one who does not enter through the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up at some other place—that one is a thief and a robber. John 10:1

 

[Grace777x70]

. Come the time, our Father's tiem, you will be called out of the Great Whore and her daughters.

What to you - is or who is the Great Whore and her daughters?

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus gave up His spirit, he died on the cross. Without this the atoning sacrifice meant nothing.

Grace without limit

If grace is applied on anybody without a measure of their ability to walk in righteousness and purity, it is just justifying sin and so would be hypocracy. A sinner is not redeemed to carry on sinning in heaven.

In the new earth when God dwells with man, we will walk in righteousness and purity. At which point will the change occur from slave to sin to slave to righteousness and walking in purity?

The lie is saying it is impossible to walk in communion with God through Christ in purity and righteousness.
This is the core disagreement between those who have tried and failed and those who believe in Christs victory and have love set free in their hearts to empower them to walk in righteousness.

I know few understand these words, "love set free in your heart", but without this you cannot love your enemy when everything within you wants to fight back and hurt them.

So when people say this is watering down the gospel they are wrong, it is actually saying you have to be transformed to come close, but this is the walk we are called to. It is not about self effort but about seeing Christ, ourselves, sin and righteousness, our families as they really are.

 

[JaumeJ]

Apostasy is teaching anything as from God that is not from Him. You may need meditate on this principle. in order to fully appreciate the extent of the meaning. It teaches things as from God though not found anywhere in His Word, after having begun as a true assembly of God. There has been none since the days of the Apostles. If ou carefully read the Word you will find this to have been the case almost constantly throughout the history of the faith of Abraham Apostasy isequated with whoredom by our Father.

The Great Whore seated on seven hills is full of names of blasphemy. She is the mother of whores. All the aforementioned are denominations which have strayed from the truth already given by God, Jesus Christ.

This is not a difficult lesson unless one is so into a denomination he is blinded to light when he sees it.

 

[PeterJens]

​“Truly, truly I say to you, the one who does not enter through the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up at some other place—that one is a thief and a robber. John 10:1

If is obvious to me many want to forcibly tell everyone else what they should believe and why.
I have been told what I am and how lost I am 100's of times. What makes it ludicrous as a position is when it is found theologically we differ over one interpretation. Now if salvation depends on this one interpretation, then salvation no longer depends on Jesus and the cross and faith in Him through repentance.

This has always been the evangelists dilemma. What is entering into faith and what is just aspiring?

The conclusion has been the sinners prayer. If you reduce everything down to the thief on the cross with Jesus, that is probably closer.

It is also obvious those who want purity and righteousness to be impossible ie hypocracy is all we can hope for, take the most extreme descriptions, perfect ... , and then apply it to all morality. How do you perfectly honour your father and mother? How do you perfectly not covert anything not yours?

What about murder? If you do something that leads to a persons death is that murder? If you fail to act is that murder? If a government goes to war on your behalf are you now guilty of murder if that war is not legitimate? In the end you have to be practical and put practical limits on these ideas to make morality a meaningful concept. But for these guys, no, because morality must be bankcrupt to justify extreme grace.

 

[JaumeJ]

See 773 above....

What to you - is or who is the Great Whore and her daughters?

 

[PeterJens]

Yes, Please do not do like this guy here, and thinks he knows what other believes, because some man who has been dead for centuries told him what we believe.

Please do not think EG makes sense. He wants to declare everything with certainty and this is the way it must be seen.
He is the one who told me I knew nothing about what he believes but I can list 95% of it all.

It always sounds a fantastic insult to say, you know nothing about what I believe, until it is shown actually this statement is not true. But does it bother him to continually be in this place. Not at all. In fact he does not regard it as a problem, because it is not a discussion just a steam roller exercise in conquering a discussion while failing to actually win it.

 

[PeterJens]

As a small side note. EG will call this slander, and a lie, but then repeating what has happened to date in truth is always a lie to those who hate facing reality and want to create their propoganda island.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

PeterJans & EG -

Give it a rest already!

The two of you (quite obviously) cannot get along.

Instead of discussing an important topic, this has become a "he said / she said" bickering match!

I'm pretty sure gossip is against both of yall's beliefs!

 

[JaumeJ]

With all due respect, it is the due of all to share truth, no matter how many times it must be repeated. While there is a true dialogue, it is always good. If you or I do not like the repetitions, we may, just as with books, videos, music, televion, or any other media, elect not to participate in it or with it..

Personally, I will never tire of sharing what I believe to be the teaching of Jesus Christ with any and all, no matter how many times a specific subject is brought up, but this is my thinking, and you are completely entitled to add yours. God bless you always.

PeterJans & EG -

Give it a rest already!

The two of you (quite obviously) cannot get along.

Instead of discussing an important topic, this has become a "he said / she said" bickering match!

I'm pretty sure gossip is against both of yall's beliefs!

 

[JaumeJ]

PeterJans & EG -

Give it a rest already!

The two of you (quite obviously) cannot get along.

Instead of discussing an important topic, this has become a "he said / she said" bickering match!

I'm pretty sure gossip is against both of yall's beliefs!

With all due respect, it is the due of all to share truth, no matter how many times it must be repeated. While there is a true dialogue, it is always good. If you or I do not like the repetitions, we may, just as with books, videos, music, televion, or any other media, elect not to participate in it or with it..

Personally, I will never tire of sharing what I believe to be the teaching of Jesus Christ with any and all, no matter how many times a specific subject is brought up, but this is my thinking, and you are completely entitled to add yours. God bless you always.

Please ignore the dumdicity of my response...... Peacemakers shall see God. God bless you.......j