Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

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Magenta said:
Why do you falsely accuse me of getting mad when I explain that I had linked to another thread?
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So you get mad at me because I did not know it was a link.

Then yell at me, And I tried to explain I did not know it was a link. and it is all on me??

Please ignore me..

 
eternally-gratefull said:
WHat, am I supposed to lie?


do you and PW think you are really going to affect me by attacking me? I can not read what he says, But the fact he got mad at me for somethign I did not do. and was unwilling to admit it when he was called out on it, he has lost any respect he could have had.
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I'm going to wait five minutes.
 
Well EG ... twice today you slandered me ... I posted a quote & nothing else ... then twice you said I meant this or that by it when I had not said one word.

Do I get an apology?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
So you get mad at me because I did not know it was a link.

Then yell at me, And I tried to explain I did not know it was a link. and it is all on me??

Please ignore me..

[/B]
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I neither yelled nor got mad. Why do you continue to lie about others the way you do?
 
PeacefulWarrior said:
I think the important thing to remember here is that Christ has already won.
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Which is basically what the fight is about. Some say that Christ has already won, and the sneaky snakes come in and say," Has he really already won? He has..........BUT."

Some of us recognize it while others don't "see" it or would rather save feelings instead of calling them out on the carpet for it.

The sneaky snakes are VERY subtle and use very nice language...even use the name of jesus. And only doctrine in our souls will save us from the sneaky snakes.
 
PeterJens said:
Many have claimed it is slander to say those who call people who believe in obedience and righteousness as legalists, do not themselves support obedience and righteousness.

The real question is, are we talking about the same thing? The answer is no because they reject the principles and morality we would want to obey and call righteousness.
So the question is obedience to what in their eyes?

Take the sermon on the mount. They say that is addressed to Jews and not christians.
The Lords prayer, old covenant. In fact everything before the cross is irrelevant.

Righteousness? Well nothing in the law, because that is just for Jews or to convict of failure.
Now there is much in the letters of the apostles but it does not relate to penal or civil govenance, rather personal attitudes and emotional responses. But everything that refers back to Jews or Jewish attitudes is also excluded. So you will hear the words context, but that just means ignore or apply this area to your life depending on the audience.So though these people appear to have the same language as us, they actually approve of a different moral and relationship model.

It is why the language can be the same but the actual implications different.

Not surprisingly this is actually a different faith but with a similar language. Now they argue it is the true faith and what we have practised for 2000 years is actually false legalism and self justification.Now they will strut and preen and say they are being loving to the weak believer and condemning the pharisee for their legalism and hypocracy. Now this appears on the surface a legitimate position until you realise it is they who continually confess about sin and failure, about being bound and never able to be free from issues. The bestthey do is repress ones conscience, say the Holy Spirit never convicts of sin, and say walking in the Spirit is the goal, but [they],continually walk in the flesh which they feel guilty about.

The whole premise is you can never walk in fellowship before the Lord in purity and righteousness, even redeemed washed and purified. So though they claim they are freeing themselves from condemnation, they actually believe they deserve it. {Please Note: FIVE slanderous accusations in one sentence!}

Their response is the christian is called to be perfect which is impossible. The problem is "perfect" is in the eyes of the beholder. To say righteous, blameless, walking in love and the Holy Spirit, the apostles say this should be our position and should be our experience. If this is not possible, why did Jesus die on the cross, why are we called the body of Christ, holy, redeemed, a glory to the King of Kings.

Now I talk as I do, because I believe your heart can be cleaned, your emotions can respond on the inside the same as the outside, you can be really alive, rejoicing, knowing you are a child of heaven and Christ has done a new work in you.

They do not hold to this, thoughthey talk of grace, it is grace to a flawed and failed people who actually stay like that except of occasional miraculous healings. Anything else is of the flesh.
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Getting back to the OP and away from all this bickering, I am going to specifically point out the slander in the OP.

I have highlighted above all the "they" "their" and "these" "themselves" which refer to no one and nothing specifically. WOW! There are 19 statements using "they" "their" and "these" etc, and not one is backed up by an actual example or proof. I knew this was bothering me when I first read the OP days ago. But when you bold the statements, it so clearly shows that the entire OP is slanderous, and not backed up with one single example, let alone NINETEEN - 19 or more proofs that no onehas said anything that PeterJens claims. I have actually not heard anyone here, whether grace or legalistic claim these things. It is hard to believe we are at page 42 of a thread that started as slanderous insults. So what is slander?

"the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation."

Unsubstantiated claims are the substance of slander and even law suits! I think it is very important we point out the faulty grounds of this entire, long thread. Again, it is based on slanderous accusations by Peter Jens, without any support or examples. I know I certainly would never say we are not to follow Jesus, and take up our cross, daily! This means both examining our hearts as to the wrong doing we have done, as well as seeing the things we need to do to be called followers of Christ.

Because following Christ is not just about keeping laws of ritual purity and cleanliness, but rather being righteous because of the blood of Christ. That means never losing your salvation. Because it is God who saves us, not ourselves our our works.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" Eph. 2:8-9

My challenge to Peter Jens is that in future post/threads, he would acutally back up his accusations with examples. In other words instead of saying this (as above):

Take the sermon on the mount. They say that is addressed to Jews and not christians.
The Lords prayer, old covenant. In fact everything before the cross is irrelevant.
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PJ would quote an actual example, and please include the thread name and post number. Example:


Obedience and Righteousness: EGV Post number 200801

I believe we should not follow Jesus Christ, because I don't feel like it
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OR Obedience and Righteousness EGV Post Number 3054

I believe it is Jesus that not only saves us, but guides and leads us under the direction of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts us of sin, and when I am walking with my eyes fixed on Jesus, he will always lead me into all truth.
"And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:" John 16:8
"When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come." John 16:13
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The other thing I would ask PeterJens to do, is start quoting and using the Bible in this forum. He rarely does, so it is hard to see where he is coming from. I think clearly laying out the Scriptures that support his viewpoint would help him to realize that perhaps he still has something to learn, as we all do. (A final note that rather than using the personal words "you" and "we" instead, you would use the impersonal words such as "the ones" or "the one" Because using second person (you) is very accusatory. Using first person plural (we) implies a lot of people agree with the author, which I have not seen in this thread.)

In conclusion:

1. No slander - do not use "they" "their" "these" "those" unless you can back it up with actual quotes from the offending parties.
2. Since this is the Bible Discussion Forum, please use Scriptures. If you can't, then either you are wrong, or you are discussing a topic which is not Biblical and doesn't belong in this forum.

Of course, this applies to everyone, including me!


PS. Sorry for yet another LONG post!
 
I think I said this last week.

This thread needs to be closed. It has lost all semblance of respectability. (considerring this thread was started as a slander against me, I think I have the right to ask that it be closed)
 
thepsalmist said:
Well EG ... twice today you slandered me ... I posted a quote & nothing else ... then twice you said I meant this or that by it when I had not said one word.

Do I get an apology?
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so you are telling me you did not post that verse to prove one can lose salvation?

Why else would you post it?
 
Someone is going to have to pass this message to EG, since EG has chosen to place me on his ignore list.

How will you ever resolve anything if you simply place everyone you disagree with on your ignore list?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
I think I said this last week.

This thread needs to be closed. It has lost all semblance of respectability. (considerring this thread was started as a slander against me, I think I have the right to ask that it be closed)
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I wonder how often you accuse others of slandering you but refuse to own up to your own.
 
PeacefulWarrior said:
Someone is going to have to pass this message to EG, since EG has chosen to place me on his ignore list.

How will you ever resolve anything if you simply place everyone you disagree with on your ignore list?
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Not everyone is interested in resolution.
Some just want to be right all the time.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

then why would ANYONE fear losing salvation.

Are we not saved by Gods PERFECT LOVE??

what is it that makes this so hard to believe?
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Scripture is clear God wants us to know we have Salvation secured by the things already accomplished in Christ thru the Atonement. But, with that being said, there is a balance of logic here right? If we are secure in what you quote as PERFECT LOVE what reason would keep us from pursuing in that perfect love? Growing in that perfect love? Maturing in that perfect love? Loving all the more in that perfect love in knowledge and wisdom? Becoming sanctified in our own disposition to belong to that love, and miraculously and supernaturally being emerged as that love as well, having travelled thru the death to the right of ourselves along the way? We must experience our death in that way before it can belong to us. Would not good works and God's demeanor fruit-up in what God predisposes our Character to become and do? What or who could stop it from being evident?

The question isn't losing Salvation, it's in letting Jesus finish His work in us, in both growing in knowledge and understanding which changes us by way of revelation to obedience, and in dying to self-consciousness, and self-interest, by way of crucifying ourselves in Christ. If we say no to anything He makes clear to use via the Holy Spirit we are saying no to Him ( There can be many reasons we say no to Him which Satan supports but none can be accepted to continue in victory God has premised in Christ Jesus or sin (not sins yet) recover its power over us.). Remember we cannot deal with Sin only God thru Christ can, yet thru Christ it is our job to deal with sins. Salvation is based on us believing and receiving and confessing right? To a creed? NO...To Him! So when we step at all outside of faithful submission to Him, we must have His grace thru forgiveness to stay on track or the being of sin is re-enlisted and the old self contract to Satans domain is reapplied to have it's overwhelming power once again. This is a practical measure of Gods grace given us thru our faith; not denial of a promise of God.
 
PeacefulWarrior said:
Someone is going to have to pass this message to EG, since EG has chosen to place me on his ignore list.

How will you ever resolve anything if you simply place everyone you disagree with on your ignore list?
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Ignore is great on online forums, there are just some who love to endlessly strive over just about everything and twist things all up, interogate and come back for more of the same again and again.

Your whole online experience changes with the ignore button.
 
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