Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version
- Thread starter PeterJens
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Which is basically what the fight is about. Some say that Christ has already won, and the sneaky snakes come in and say," Has he really already won? He has..........BUT."
Some of us recognize it while others don't "see" it or would rather save feelings instead of calling them out on the carpet for it.
The sneaky snakes are VERY subtle and use very nice language...even use the name of jesus. And only doctrine in our souls will save us from the sneaky snakes.
Some of us recognize it while others don't "see" it or would rather save feelings instead of calling them out on the carpet for it.
The sneaky snakes are VERY subtle and use very nice language...even use the name of jesus. And only doctrine in our souls will save us from the sneaky snakes.
Getting back to the OP and away from all this bickering, I am going to specifically point out the slander in the OP.
I have highlighted above all the "they" "their" and "these" "themselves" which refer to no one and nothing specifically. WOW! There are 19 statements using "they" "their" and "these" etc, and not one is backed up by an actual example or proof. I knew this was bothering me when I first read the OP days ago. But when you bold the statements, it so clearly shows that the entire OP is slanderous, and not backed up with one single example, let alone NINETEEN - 19 or more proofs that no onehas said anything that PeterJens claims. I have actually not heard anyone here, whether grace or legalistic claim these things. It is hard to believe we are at page 42 of a thread that started as slanderous insults. So what is slander?
"the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation."
Unsubstantiated claims are the substance of slander and even law suits! I think it is very important we point out the faulty grounds of this entire, long thread. Again, it is based on slanderous accusations by Peter Jens, without any support or examples. I know I certainly would never say we are not to follow Jesus, and take up our cross, daily! This means both examining our hearts as to the wrong doing we have done, as well as seeing the things we need to do to be called followers of Christ.
Because following Christ is not just about keeping laws of ritual purity and cleanliness, but rather being righteous because of the blood of Christ. That means never losing your salvation. Because it is God who saves us, not ourselves our our works.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" Eph. 2:8-9
My challenge to Peter Jens is that in future post/threads, he would acutally back up his accusations with examples. In other words instead of saying this (as above):
PJ would quote an actual example, and please include the thread name and post number. Example:
Obedience and Righteousness: EGV Post number 200801
OR Obedience and Righteousness EGV Post Number 3054
The other thing I would ask PeterJens to do, is start quoting and using the Bible in this forum. He rarely does, so it is hard to see where he is coming from. I think clearly laying out the Scriptures that support his viewpoint would help him to realize that perhaps he still has something to learn, as we all do. (A final note that rather than using the personal words "you" and "we" instead, you would use the impersonal words such as "the ones" or "the one" Because using second person (you) is very accusatory. Using first person plural (we) implies a lot of people agree with the author, which I have not seen in this thread.)
In conclusion:
1. No slander - do not use "they" "their" "these" "those" unless you can back it up with actual quotes from the offending parties.
2. Since this is the Bible Discussion Forum, please use Scriptures. If you can't, then either you are wrong, or you are discussing a topic which is not Biblical and doesn't belong in this forum.
Of course, this applies to everyone, including me!
PS. Sorry for yet another LONG post!
I have highlighted above all the "they" "their" and "these" "themselves" which refer to no one and nothing specifically. WOW! There are 19 statements using "they" "their" and "these" etc, and not one is backed up by an actual example or proof. I knew this was bothering me when I first read the OP days ago. But when you bold the statements, it so clearly shows that the entire OP is slanderous, and not backed up with one single example, let alone NINETEEN - 19 or more proofs that no onehas said anything that PeterJens claims. I have actually not heard anyone here, whether grace or legalistic claim these things. It is hard to believe we are at page 42 of a thread that started as slanderous insults. So what is slander?
"the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation."
Unsubstantiated claims are the substance of slander and even law suits! I think it is very important we point out the faulty grounds of this entire, long thread. Again, it is based on slanderous accusations by Peter Jens, without any support or examples. I know I certainly would never say we are not to follow Jesus, and take up our cross, daily! This means both examining our hearts as to the wrong doing we have done, as well as seeing the things we need to do to be called followers of Christ.
Because following Christ is not just about keeping laws of ritual purity and cleanliness, but rather being righteous because of the blood of Christ. That means never losing your salvation. Because it is God who saves us, not ourselves our our works.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" Eph. 2:8-9
My challenge to Peter Jens is that in future post/threads, he would acutally back up his accusations with examples. In other words instead of saying this (as above):
PJ would quote an actual example, and please include the thread name and post number. Example:
Obedience and Righteousness: EGV Post number 200801
OR Obedience and Righteousness EGV Post Number 3054
The other thing I would ask PeterJens to do, is start quoting and using the Bible in this forum. He rarely does, so it is hard to see where he is coming from. I think clearly laying out the Scriptures that support his viewpoint would help him to realize that perhaps he still has something to learn, as we all do. (A final note that rather than using the personal words "you" and "we" instead, you would use the impersonal words such as "the ones" or "the one" Because using second person (you) is very accusatory. Using first person plural (we) implies a lot of people agree with the author, which I have not seen in this thread.)
In conclusion:
1. No slander - do not use "they" "their" "these" "those" unless you can back it up with actual quotes from the offending parties.
2. Since this is the Bible Discussion Forum, please use Scriptures. If you can't, then either you are wrong, or you are discussing a topic which is not Biblical and doesn't belong in this forum.
Of course, this applies to everyone, including me!
PS. Sorry for yet another LONG post!
E
Magenta
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Senior Member
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Scripture is clear God wants us to know we have Salvation secured by the things already accomplished in Christ thru the Atonement. But, with that being said, there is a balance of logic here right? If we are secure in what you quote as PERFECT LOVE what reason would keep us from pursuing in that perfect love? Growing in that perfect love? Maturing in that perfect love? Loving all the more in that perfect love in knowledge and wisdom? Becoming sanctified in our own disposition to belong to that love, and miraculously and supernaturally being emerged as that love as well, having travelled thru the death to the right of ourselves along the way? We must experience our death in that way before it can belong to us. Would not good works and God's demeanor fruit-up in what God predisposes our Character to become and do? What or who could stop it from being evident?
The question isn't losing Salvation, it's in letting Jesus finish His work in us, in both growing in knowledge and understanding which changes us by way of revelation to obedience, and in dying to self-consciousness, and self-interest, by way of crucifying ourselves in Christ. If we say no to anything He makes clear to use via the Holy Spirit we are saying no to Him ( There can be many reasons we say no to Him which Satan supports but none can be accepted to continue in victory God has premised in Christ Jesus or sin (not sins yet) recover its power over us.). Remember we cannot deal with Sin only God thru Christ can, yet thru Christ it is our job to deal with sins. Salvation is based on us believing and receiving and confessing right? To a creed? NO...To Him! So when we step at all outside of faithful submission to Him, we must have His grace thru forgiveness to stay on track or the being of sin is re-enlisted and the old self contract to Satans domain is reapplied to have it's overwhelming power once again. This is a practical measure of Gods grace given us thru our faith; not denial of a promise of God.
The question isn't losing Salvation, it's in letting Jesus finish His work in us, in both growing in knowledge and understanding which changes us by way of revelation to obedience, and in dying to self-consciousness, and self-interest, by way of crucifying ourselves in Christ. If we say no to anything He makes clear to use via the Holy Spirit we are saying no to Him ( There can be many reasons we say no to Him which Satan supports but none can be accepted to continue in victory God has premised in Christ Jesus or sin (not sins yet) recover its power over us.). Remember we cannot deal with Sin only God thru Christ can, yet thru Christ it is our job to deal with sins. Salvation is based on us believing and receiving and confessing right? To a creed? NO...To Him! So when we step at all outside of faithful submission to Him, we must have His grace thru forgiveness to stay on track or the being of sin is re-enlisted and the old self contract to Satans domain is reapplied to have it's overwhelming power once again. This is a practical measure of Gods grace given us thru our faith; not denial of a promise of God.
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