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Are all the detractors here having a real good time ridiculing God and His previously held necessary laws on safe eating habits?
There was a reason God gave them. I do not claim to understand completely, but He had His reason.
Then Jesus made foods clean.
Perhaps it is to show folks how silly it is to rely on a vudú approach to God's perfect love for us all. No matter, He had His reason.
To ridicule His words, though amended, is just a little bit tasteless at best, and could be dangerous. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom
There was a reason God gave them. I do not claim to understand completely, but He had His reason.
Then Jesus made foods clean.
Perhaps it is to show folks how silly it is to rely on a vudú approach to God's perfect love for us all. No matter, He had His reason.
To ridicule His words, though amended, is just a little bit tasteless at best, and could be dangerous. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom
Allow me to attempt to make certain aspects of our faith more clear to those who may thing eating or not eating any particular food is funny.
Paul teaches if what we should eat would cause a brother to fall, then we should not eat it in his presence.
Paul teaches there is quite a bit of latitude in how we are to behave as believers..
We who are strong enough in our faith should never condemn another for what he will or will not eat.
God allows much freedom in His sight as long as the believer is acting with a clear conscience, so who are we, you or I to judge another's servant?
This discussion has some serious, faithful participants, but many are simply flip, disrespectful, and the worst of all, endangering the faith of those weak in the faith.
Many of the posts remind me of the proverb about those who say, I was in jest while winking the eye......
Paul teaches if what we should eat would cause a brother to fall, then we should not eat it in his presence.
Paul teaches there is quite a bit of latitude in how we are to behave as believers..
We who are strong enough in our faith should never condemn another for what he will or will not eat.
God allows much freedom in His sight as long as the believer is acting with a clear conscience, so who are we, you or I to judge another's servant?
This discussion has some serious, faithful participants, but many are simply flip, disrespectful, and the worst of all, endangering the faith of those weak in the faith.
Many of the posts remind me of the proverb about those who say, I was in jest while winking the eye......
I wasnt promoting eating bacon if he felt condemned over it
Same here
Nor was I gloating that I ate bacon (I was just being playful here)
And because I was speaking about an uncooked pig ("named" Bacon) not the fried up kind with eggs
He could be a little devil too, so maybe our pig could have been possessed (maybe that isnt that far fetched) because he was too smart , would turn a trick for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
He was entertaining.
My concern would not be about eating our Bacon, it is this...
And it says,
Duet 4:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
Unfortunately I did touch his dead carcase because he passed away and we had to bury him (and so I touched it)
After all these years I think, what now?
I mean, I know it says,
Num 19:11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.
Is that all? I mean, I thought I was still clean, but there it speaks of "any man", not pig (still combing through the Leviticals)
Looks like even the high priest was not to defile himself to touch any dead body, not even for his father or his mother if he is dead
Lev 21:11 Neither shall he go in to any dead body,
nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother.
My parents are still alive but this is real good info because it says here,
Mat 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me;
and let the dead bury their dead.
I think I'm onto something,
I can really understand why they were obsessively (and compulsively) washing their hands all the time, because everything outside them from foods, to where a woman sat during her menstruation to dead bodies of men and beasts (and what they touched) made them unclean.
I suppose thats another thread, I was just stumbling onto things
Same here
Nor was I gloating that I ate bacon (I was just being playful here)
I will love my bacon for ever
This is my Bacon
(see the little fella with the hat on?)
His name is Bacon bits (love him to bits)
(see the little fella with the hat on?)
His name is Bacon bits (love him to bits)
He was entertaining.
My concern would not be about eating our Bacon, it is this...
And it says,
Duet 4:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
Unfortunately I did touch his dead carcase because he passed away and we had to bury him (and so I touched it)
After all these years I think, what now?
I mean, I know it says,
Num 19:11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.
Is that all? I mean, I thought I was still clean, but there it speaks of "any man", not pig (still combing through the Leviticals)
Looks like even the high priest was not to defile himself to touch any dead body, not even for his father or his mother if he is dead
Lev 21:11 Neither shall he go in to any dead body,
nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother.
My parents are still alive but this is real good info because it says here,
Mat 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me;
and let the dead bury their dead.
I think I'm onto something,
I can really understand why they were obsessively (and compulsively) washing their hands all the time, because everything outside them from foods, to where a woman sat during her menstruation to dead bodies of men and beasts (and what they touched) made them unclean.
I suppose thats another thread, I was just stumbling onto things
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I
Bro. RobbyEarl, we are not arguing the validity of the cross to save men, but you are arguing the validity of the cross
to cleanse swines flesh. Paul never made such a case as you are doing. You joke about Italian sausage, what would be better is if you throw it into the sea, like Jesus did.
Sis. PilgrimPassingthru, You quote Titus 3:9 Is it really unprofitable and vain to reject God's word in Isaiah 66:15-17
Is this your solution to your problems?
Bro. Posthuman, My comments, which you consider out of line, are pleading and exhortation. How is that out of line from the word of God?
Sis. Depleted, You ask if you are sinning by eating what God calls the abomination. You seem to care more about eating than you care about being holy, Lev 11:44, 2 Cor 7:1 & 6:17 Need you ask if you are?
Bro. JaumeJ, You say, "Then Jesus made foods clean." Food has always been clean and still is. God is the one who prescribes man's diet. see Gen1:29 Later he added animal flesh, see Gen 6:2,3 8:20, 9:3 Only clean animals were allowed for sacrifice and for food. The wicked people at the time of the flood were eating everything in contravention to God's will. It is God who identified for us what is food and what is abomination. If it is abomination, then it is not food, in God's eyes.
Sis. PilgrimPassingthru, You need not be concerned about having to handle the carcass of an unclean animal. I remind you that it is only considered unclean after the animal dies. While it is living it is just like any other creature which God unequivocally declared in creation, that it it was good and very good. All creatures are good, the caveat being good for the purpose God made them for. Unclean animals were to be scavengers and cleanse the earth, to use unclean animals as a source of sustenance is to defy God. If you need to handle the unclean animal carcass, God has made a prescription, see Lev 11:27,28
However there is no like remedy for eating the abomination apart from the cleansing blood of Jesus. If you would be clean you must repent. God is calling us to holiness, you can never attain that as long as you are defiling yourself with the unclean thing. Lev 11:43,44 Accept God's word and you will live.
to cleanse swines flesh. Paul never made such a case as you are doing. You joke about Italian sausage, what would be better is if you throw it into the sea, like Jesus did.
Sis. PilgrimPassingthru, You quote Titus 3:9 Is it really unprofitable and vain to reject God's word in Isaiah 66:15-17
Is this your solution to your problems?
Bro. Posthuman, My comments, which you consider out of line, are pleading and exhortation. How is that out of line from the word of God?
Sis. Depleted, You ask if you are sinning by eating what God calls the abomination. You seem to care more about eating than you care about being holy, Lev 11:44, 2 Cor 7:1 & 6:17 Need you ask if you are?
Bro. JaumeJ, You say, "Then Jesus made foods clean." Food has always been clean and still is. God is the one who prescribes man's diet. see Gen1:29 Later he added animal flesh, see Gen 6:2,3 8:20, 9:3 Only clean animals were allowed for sacrifice and for food. The wicked people at the time of the flood were eating everything in contravention to God's will. It is God who identified for us what is food and what is abomination. If it is abomination, then it is not food, in God's eyes.
Sis. PilgrimPassingthru, You need not be concerned about having to handle the carcass of an unclean animal. I remind you that it is only considered unclean after the animal dies. While it is living it is just like any other creature which God unequivocally declared in creation, that it it was good and very good. All creatures are good, the caveat being good for the purpose God made them for. Unclean animals were to be scavengers and cleanse the earth, to use unclean animals as a source of sustenance is to defy God. If you need to handle the unclean animal carcass, God has made a prescription, see Lev 11:27,28
However there is no like remedy for eating the abomination apart from the cleansing blood of Jesus. If you would be clean you must repent. God is calling us to holiness, you can never attain that as long as you are defiling yourself with the unclean thing. Lev 11:43,44 Accept God's word and you will live.
D
I am not a vegetarian because I really like meat, can't eat dairy, (including eggs often), but hate beans. (That would kill off getting enough protein.) I do not make fun of vegetarians, but I will laugh with vegetarian when they try to convince me tofu taste... I was going to say "taste good," except tofu simply doesn't taste. They will "tempt" me with tofu, so I will "tempt" them with meat. It's funny because both of us are grossed out by the other's temptation. (I've tempted people equally with snails, knowing most people wouldn't eat snails with a gun pointed to their heads.)
I really do love bacon. I really cannot eat it. I am not offended by someone who likes and eats bacon. Same deal with pork. (My brother just got a job at a barbeque pork place, and he actually thinks he's tempting me to eat it. I haven't even bothered telling him I haven't been able to eat pork in 20 years, because it doesn't tempt me, and I think it's sweet he's trying to pick up business for his company.)
So, really? I don't get why you're offended. It's your choice how you eat. Who has any right to tell you how to eat? Even if someone thought they did, would you find that anything but funny?
But for some young Christian to come on here and suddenly be afraid of pepperoni? THAT is offensive, because someone is teaching him more than God. Someone is teaching him Christ + works = salvation!
T'ain't having that! Just never. So, I really don't get why you're offended?
Those who chose to eat a certain way always have that choice. Those who are forced into it, should lighten up and realize no one can force you into it.
I really do love bacon. I really cannot eat it. I am not offended by someone who likes and eats bacon. Same deal with pork. (My brother just got a job at a barbeque pork place, and he actually thinks he's tempting me to eat it. I haven't even bothered telling him I haven't been able to eat pork in 20 years, because it doesn't tempt me, and I think it's sweet he's trying to pick up business for his company.)
So, really? I don't get why you're offended. It's your choice how you eat. Who has any right to tell you how to eat? Even if someone thought they did, would you find that anything but funny?
But for some young Christian to come on here and suddenly be afraid of pepperoni? THAT is offensive, because someone is teaching him more than God. Someone is teaching him Christ + works = salvation!
T'ain't having that! Just never. So, I really don't get why you're offended?
Those who chose to eat a certain way always have that choice. Those who are forced into it, should lighten up and realize no one can force you into it.
I
Sis. PigrimPassingThru, and Jim, You have made many observations and asked questions that deserve an answer. Know that all your observations that originate from the bible, the word of God. We must not think that Moses was the author of the many regulations noted. It was actually the Holy Spirit who inspired Moses to write what he did, therefore what you cavalierly question, know that it was God who put them in the bible. Do you really think you are up to challenging God or will you prevail in your attempted mockery of what some may deem unintelligent holy writ? Lets examine it to see if God is able to vindicate His word.
You mention that if someone were to defend the homosexual lifestyle, simply countering with Lev 15:1 would silence the debate. You also note that it is referred to as an abomination, i can assure you that the NT corroborates that view.
Some may say in defense of homosexuality that is is inborn or in the genes. Be that as it may it is no different than someone who is predisposed to steal or to murder. As Christians we must ask God for victory over these temptations.
When you burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice you surely mean that you are barbecuing. You claim that your neighbors have an issue with BBQ. Before you smite them ask them if the BBQ is really the issue or is it just the worship of God?
You would like to sell your daughter into slavery as per Ex 21:7 and are wondering what a good price might be.
I would say whatever the market will bear and include a caveat of buyer beware.
There was no such thing as a permanent involuntary servitude for a Hebrew slave to a Hebrew master Lev 25:25-55
You acknowledge that you are to have no contact with a woman during her menstrual period as per Lev 15:19-24
You are asking how you can tell if they are menstruating. If it is your wife, you could just ask her. You also mention other women, if you are a Christian, why are you trying to mess around with other women? Just asking?
Your neighbor insists on working on the Sabbath Ex 35:2 You ask, are you morally obligated to smite him yourself? That is a very good question! A similar question might be, are you morally obligated to smite a women committing adultery.
We owe Jesus a debt of thanks because He has answered this for us. When Mary was taken in adultery and men demanded Moses law be implemented, Jesus said, "Whoever is without sin, let him cast the first stone." Jesus, by this act relieved the Christian church of implementing the death penalty. For who is without sin? This does not mean that God will not render judgement on adulterers and Sabbath breakers at some point. Num 15:32-36 it's just that you are now not morally obligated to do so.
You say your friend feels that eating shell fish is a lesser abomination than the abomination of homosexuality, while you think eating shellfish might be a greater abomination. The thing is, sin is sin and every sin separates us from God, God say's the soul that sins it shall die. Even if to you one is a greater sin, the penalty is the same.
You say that Lev 21:20 states that you cannot approach the altar of God if you have a defect in your vision?
Actually this applies to the Levites from whom the priests were called to minister at the altar. Unless you are a levite serving in the temple this does not apply to you. God required those who would make intercession for the people be whole just as Christ is our perfect intercessor without spot or blemish.
You say that most of your friends get their hair trimmed which is forbidden in Lev 19:7 and are asking how should they die.
Many of these regulations pertained to the economy of Israel and were not binding on other peoples, in any event there was no penalty for violation of many of these counsels, but by heeding you would prosper.
You err thinking that touching the skin of a dead pig ie football makes you unclean. Lev 11:6-8 It is touching the carcass that makes one unclean. The ark of the covenant when it was in transit was covered by badger skins Num 4:6 which come from an unclean animal. So no, you don't need gloves to play football.
You say your uncle plants two different crops in the same field and his wife wears two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend and He curses and blasphemes God a lot.
Tell your uncle that if he followed God's counsel for agriculture he would enjoy a much better crop. You do realize the Hebrews did not have polyester back then but if you did use two different fibers, you could have a problem with uneven shrinkage.
You should also know that blasphemers will not escape the judgement but as pertains to the here and now, the same example Christ gave regarding the woman taken in adultery applies. Save your matches.
I hope your stated confidence in me has not been a disappointment. If you require more clarity on something let me know.Yes i am reminded that God's word is eternal and unchanging. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Heb 13:8
You mention that if someone were to defend the homosexual lifestyle, simply countering with Lev 15:1 would silence the debate. You also note that it is referred to as an abomination, i can assure you that the NT corroborates that view.
Some may say in defense of homosexuality that is is inborn or in the genes. Be that as it may it is no different than someone who is predisposed to steal or to murder. As Christians we must ask God for victory over these temptations.
When you burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice you surely mean that you are barbecuing. You claim that your neighbors have an issue with BBQ. Before you smite them ask them if the BBQ is really the issue or is it just the worship of God?
You would like to sell your daughter into slavery as per Ex 21:7 and are wondering what a good price might be.
I would say whatever the market will bear and include a caveat of buyer beware.
There was no such thing as a permanent involuntary servitude for a Hebrew slave to a Hebrew master Lev 25:25-55
You acknowledge that you are to have no contact with a woman during her menstrual period as per Lev 15:19-24
You are asking how you can tell if they are menstruating. If it is your wife, you could just ask her. You also mention other women, if you are a Christian, why are you trying to mess around with other women? Just asking?
Your neighbor insists on working on the Sabbath Ex 35:2 You ask, are you morally obligated to smite him yourself? That is a very good question! A similar question might be, are you morally obligated to smite a women committing adultery.
We owe Jesus a debt of thanks because He has answered this for us. When Mary was taken in adultery and men demanded Moses law be implemented, Jesus said, "Whoever is without sin, let him cast the first stone." Jesus, by this act relieved the Christian church of implementing the death penalty. For who is without sin? This does not mean that God will not render judgement on adulterers and Sabbath breakers at some point. Num 15:32-36 it's just that you are now not morally obligated to do so.
You say your friend feels that eating shell fish is a lesser abomination than the abomination of homosexuality, while you think eating shellfish might be a greater abomination. The thing is, sin is sin and every sin separates us from God, God say's the soul that sins it shall die. Even if to you one is a greater sin, the penalty is the same.
You say that Lev 21:20 states that you cannot approach the altar of God if you have a defect in your vision?
Actually this applies to the Levites from whom the priests were called to minister at the altar. Unless you are a levite serving in the temple this does not apply to you. God required those who would make intercession for the people be whole just as Christ is our perfect intercessor without spot or blemish.
You say that most of your friends get their hair trimmed which is forbidden in Lev 19:7 and are asking how should they die.
Many of these regulations pertained to the economy of Israel and were not binding on other peoples, in any event there was no penalty for violation of many of these counsels, but by heeding you would prosper.
You err thinking that touching the skin of a dead pig ie football makes you unclean. Lev 11:6-8 It is touching the carcass that makes one unclean. The ark of the covenant when it was in transit was covered by badger skins Num 4:6 which come from an unclean animal. So no, you don't need gloves to play football.
You say your uncle plants two different crops in the same field and his wife wears two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend and He curses and blasphemes God a lot.
Tell your uncle that if he followed God's counsel for agriculture he would enjoy a much better crop. You do realize the Hebrews did not have polyester back then but if you did use two different fibers, you could have a problem with uneven shrinkage.
You should also know that blasphemers will not escape the judgement but as pertains to the here and now, the same example Christ gave regarding the woman taken in adultery applies. Save your matches.
I hope your stated confidence in me has not been a disappointment. If you require more clarity on something let me know.Yes i am reminded that God's word is eternal and unchanging. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Heb 13:8
Jesus pointed out to the hypocrite Pharisees and those who would be lawyers that they leave out the most important points of the law. They did not include faith, mercy and justice. I believe, in order to apply these three one must assure himself that he knows any guilty of breaking just one of the least of the laws is guilty of breaking them all.
We, as those who believe Jesus Christ, His mercy, and His teaching we are not to judge lest we be judged, alway sopt for mercy. It is His desire. Our faith being in Jesus Christ alone, and trusting Him for true justice when He returns.
It is evil to choose one law broken over another, but it is always correct and joyous to extend mercy. We do not need approve any aberrant behavior, nor pray for a sin, but we are taught to love all, and all means saints and sinners alike.
I do believe we are converted from our former state of being children of disobedience to being children of obedience. Also, I am comfortable with my understanding that I know by the teaching of Jesus Christ exactly how to obey God, while so many here are paralyzed by either the law without the three principles cited by our Lord, or by absolute grace........grace and obedience are natural allies, they cannot be separated.
Jesus Christ is our Example, therefore there shold be no question on how we obey, yet there are so many? Odd, to me anyway.
We, as those who believe Jesus Christ, His mercy, and His teaching we are not to judge lest we be judged, alway sopt for mercy. It is His desire. Our faith being in Jesus Christ alone, and trusting Him for true justice when He returns.
It is evil to choose one law broken over another, but it is always correct and joyous to extend mercy. We do not need approve any aberrant behavior, nor pray for a sin, but we are taught to love all, and all means saints and sinners alike.
I do believe we are converted from our former state of being children of disobedience to being children of obedience. Also, I am comfortable with my understanding that I know by the teaching of Jesus Christ exactly how to obey God, while so many here are paralyzed by either the law without the three principles cited by our Lord, or by absolute grace........grace and obedience are natural allies, they cannot be separated.
Jesus Christ is our Example, therefore there shold be no question on how we obey, yet there are so many? Odd, to me anyway.
T
Matthew 6:31-33
Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
as you explained, Paul told us not to judge each other over disputable matters.
your comments seem to me like you were prit-well 'judging' -- don't you think?
what would say i'm doing, if ..
- because of something you did that God declared was approved, so that it's not even disputable, and you did it with thanksgiving to God -
.. if i implied that because of it you were on your way to hell, said you run away from God's words, called your behavior unworthy of being called Christian, said you were disobedient, ornery, had no understanding of scripture and no interest of getting any, told you you were altogether unprofitable & vain, and an abomination?
all because you did something with thanksgiving in your heart, that is indisputably approved to do by Christ Himself?
would you say i was being "exhorting" ?
your comments seem to me like you were prit-well 'judging' -- don't you think?
what would say i'm doing, if ..
- because of something you did that God declared was approved, so that it's not even disputable, and you did it with thanksgiving to God -
.. if i implied that because of it you were on your way to hell, said you run away from God's words, called your behavior unworthy of being called Christian, said you were disobedient, ornery, had no understanding of scripture and no interest of getting any, told you you were altogether unprofitable & vain, and an abomination?
all because you did something with thanksgiving in your heart, that is indisputably approved to do by Christ Himself?
would you say i was being "exhorting" ?