The essential characteristics of the Biblical Jesus

[Bowman]

Get a grip...

This a muslum trick to try to get more christians to read the korran rather than the bible. Then they will tell you that the bible has so many diff translations and changes that it can't be 100% reliable.
Then they'll apply that same bs to their own book, and tell you you have an inaccurate translation, trying to convince you other korrans have a more reasonable doctrine, even putting Jesus on a par with the false prophet muhammed.

DON'T FALL FOR IT!

Brothers and sisters in Christ, this site is under siege, and you're playing right into their hands.

Many were talking openly and bragging about being 'trolls', talking about how to infiltrate and disrupt. They're not all nerdy kids playing games, and while they're distracting you one way, demonic doctrines are slipping in the back door. The muslim has one goal in mind, total take-over in every area of life for their false god.

And they are well studied and schooled in how to go about this. One way is through scholarly sounding discussion, and an attempt to seem friendly.

This gains trust, and leads westerners, and now even christians, to try to see them in a 'nicer' light. Next thing you know, you're studying Their book(s) to get more 'spiritual knowledge',
when we have all we need from God Himself, and we should be reading HIS Book more, and instructing the deceivers with the Truth.

Remember, THE KORAN IS A BOOK OF LIES, written by demonic influence to persuade ppl to tolerate, and eventually accept a demonic god.

Please, folks.....I know Jesus is sovereign God and His will WILL be done,
but there is damage being done to the body of Christ, and SINCERE seekers as well,
and I believe the Lord us calling us to get more solidly rooted in HIS Word and put on HIS armor, not be dabbling in the devil's texts, no matter how righteous you're intentions may be, unless you are ABSOLUTELY certain the Lord has called you to that.

Even then.....remember the scriptures where God's people are told not to engage in disputes that are unprofitable, but after admonishing a heretic a couple of times, simply rebuke them in Jesus' name.

The enemy tries to charm you, but Jesus said to that snake, 'It is written', and we should do the same. Don't even bother considering what the enemy says in another book.

No one wants to read your bigotry...

 

[BrotherJustin]

I bought into the Islamic lie, like you are doing.

It was not until a Muslim colleague of mine, once he learned that I was Christian, thought it was his duty to inform me that my Holy Bible was corrupted, and needed to be corrected by his Koran....it was at this time that I set out to see for myself....ever since, I have studied both the Holy Bible and the Koran in their original languages and compared the two side by side....and what I discovered is nothing like what I was told - by ANYONE!

Curious--is your Muslim colleague now Christian?

What lie is it you think I've bought into?

How does your proper translation of the Koran help Christians better serve Christ? What does your version conclude, which is contrary to the common Islamic-lie view?

 

[B1Davanda]

Re: Get a grip...

No one wants to read your bigotry...

Point out the bigotry. No christian wants to read your muslum lies.

 

[Chuckt]

The one overriding essential characteristic of the biblical Jesus is that He is God.

So, yeah, the Jesus of the koran is "another Jesus".

Actually, there are other people on the net who feel that Mohammad plagiarized from Christians and Jews.

[video=youtube;5x5q1JR5XX4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x5q1JR5XX4[/video]

 

[Bowman]

Curious--is your Muslim colleague now Christian?

No.

What lie is it you think I've bought into?

The Islamic claims of 'Muhammad', denial of Jesus' deity, Jesus not crucified until death upon The Cross, etc, etc...

How does your proper translation of the Koran help Christians better serve Christ?

It equips the Christian with a ready defense against Muslim polemics...

What does your version conclude, which is contrary to the common Islamic-lie view?

Virtually everything Islam claims.

 

[Bowman]

Actually, there are other people on the net who feel that Mohammad plagiarized from Christians and Jews.

[video=youtube;5x5q1JR5XX4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x5q1JR5XX4[/video]

According to the Koran, itself, non one named 'Muhammad' had anything at all to do with the writings contained within its pages.

This is pure Islamic myth.

 

[Chuckt]

I'm still blown away by this one:

[video=youtube;CNrqE3I4JQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNrqE3I4JQU[/video]

 

[Bowman]

I'm still blown away by this one:

[video=youtube;CNrqE3I4JQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNrqE3I4JQU[/video]

Much of what Muslims do is a result of a twisting of the verses in their Koran.

From your video...the Kabba (cube) that they worship is actually taken from the Book of Revelation, and represents the New Jerusalem - which is likewise a cube.

The Islamic concepts of heaven and hell are directly lifted from the pages of Revelation, and then mis-interpreted as carnal in lieu of spiritual.

It just goes on and on...

 

[BrotherJustin]

No.





The Islamic claims of 'Muhammad', denial of Jesus' deity, Jesus not crucified until death upon The Cross, etc, etc...






It equips the Christian with a ready defense against Muslim polemics...






Virtually everything Islam claims.

Thanks for your response, Bowman.

 

[Dan_473]

Dan....

Why do you insist upon making comparisons with literature that you, yourself, have not even bothered to read?

The bom admits, on page 82, footnote2A, that it merely wholesale copied the KJV Bible....thus, this should already be talking about the Biblical Jesus Christ.

Further, this entire discussion has always been about what the text states - NOT how adherents interpret it...

I'm confident the comparisons are valid, and if they're not, I'm hoping someone will show that to me.

The bom on page 82, footnote2A... can that be viewed on the internet?

if a book copies from the bible, that doesn't mean the writer is talking about the same Jesus. for example, the Jehovah's Witnesses quote the bible. I think they have "another Jesus".

I agree, let's see what the texts say. at the same time, some sense of what a text says can be gained from looking at its followers.

 

[Dan_473]

Here's a simple one...

فصل لربك وانحر

Fasalli lirabbika wainhar

108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.

as you translate it, then, the "Lord" refered to here is also called a "Sacrifice". is that the same quality as "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures"?



also, the two translations here give a very different sense of the passage.
https://carm.org/quran-108

 

[BrotherJustin]

I think they have "another Jesus".

Even more complicated: People within the same denominations (or divisions/sects) sometimes hold alternate personal views of Jesus.

It's a complex thought: To consider not only doctrine as it is on paper--but also as it's understood in the hearts of men.

 

[Bowman]

I'm confident the comparisons are valid, and if they're not, I'm hoping someone will show that to me.

Why do you keep wanting others to demonstrate your comparison?

If its your point; then the onus is upon you...

The bom on page 82, footnote2A... can that be viewed on the internet?

I have an actual book.

if a book copies from the bible, that doesn't mean the writer is talking about the same Jesus. for example, the Jehovah's Witnesses quote the bible. I think they have "another Jesus".

You don't copy from a book, if you are talking about another person, otherwise there would be no need to copy the original in the first place.

Dan....you are confusing the interpretation aspect here...

 

[Bowman]

as you translate it, then, the "Lord" refered to here is also called a "Sacrifice".

Correct.

is that the same quality as "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures"?

Yes.

also, the two translations here give a very different sense of the passage.
https://carm.org/quran-108

Neither of those that you linked to, provide ANY exegetical reasoning for their English rendering.

I can show my full exegetical reasoning.

A rendering is only as good as the verifiable exegesis behind it....

 

[Dan_473]

Dan...

We've seen the typical 'knee-jerk-denial' reaction from a few Christians, in this thread, regarding my replies to your OP, what about you..?

More of the same...or...are you going to research the matter for yourself, before you deny...?

well, an observation... it seems that your view of Jesus in the koran is based on a particular translation. is this your own personal translation, or someone else's? is it available on the web?

so... assuming it's your own personal work... take a step back for a minute... I think you can see why people would be wary.

I don't know arabic, so I'm dependent on english translators. if the koran resoundingly proclaims Jesus' deity, I think that should come through in some places in any reasonable translation.




but suppose, for the sake of discussion, that the koran refers to a Jesus who is God. imo, that still wouldn't mean he's the Jesus of the bible.

as an example, a quote from
What is Christ Consciousness? - Golden Age of Gaia [this is not a christian website]

"When Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one reaches the
Father but by me,” or when he gave the parable of the treasure
buried in a field, I think he was referring to the fact that no one can
know the Father without first knowing the Self, Son, Christ or Atman."

is the author talking about the biblical Christ? obviously, there's a quote from the biblical Jesus... yet, the quality of Christ being the Self or Atman points to a different Christ.
so, the Christ of this quote doesn't share the same essential characteristics as the biblical Christ.

 

[BrotherJustin]

Christ must be a deity.

Is this the only essential characteristic we've come up with so far?

 

[Dan_473]

Why do you keep wanting others to demonstrate your comparison?

If its your point; then the onus is upon you...

my comparison was not baseless. if someone else has access to more evidence, then that can be helpful.

I have an actual book.

well... since this is an internet forum, references that can be checked on the net are helpful.

You don't copy from a book, if you are talking about another person, otherwise there would be no need to copy the original in the first place.

Dan....you are confusing the interpretation aspect here...

I don't know what you mean here.

I thought you wrote that the book of mormon copied the kjv, and the kjv would be a book... ?

 

[roaringkitten]

I would encourage all Christians to study the Bible itself to glean the essential characteristics of Jesus. No one can win anyone over by our own words, or by going to a source outside the Bible(ie: Koran). Even the Apostle Paul spoke about his own speaking style:

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." 1 Cor 2:4-5

Are we trusting in the power of God to save souls? Whether they be athiests, Muslim, etc....the Word of God is sufficient ITSELF to reaching these people! The difference between the "words of man's wisdom" and the words of God, is the Word of God gives LIFE!

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Heb 4:12

I would discourage anyone from sticking their heads in the Koran, and keep their heads in the Word of God!

 

[BrotherJustin]

I would encourage all Christians to study the Bible itself to glean the essential characteristics of Jesus. No one can win anyone over by our own words, or by going to a source outside the Bible(ie: Koran).

...

I would discourage anyone from sticking their heads in the Koran, and keep their heads in the Word of God!

Christ must be a deity.

Is this the only essential characteristic we've come up with so far?

Glean anything else yet?

 

[Dan_473]

Correct.







Yes.




Neither of those that you linked to, provide ANY exegetical reasoning for their English rendering.

I can show my full exegetical reasoning.

A rendering is only as good as the verifiable exegesis behind it....

as you read it, does the koran say how Jesus died? imo, it needs to be "according to the scriptures"...

it's true that webpage doesn't give translation details. it doesn't follow that the translations are baseless.

if I am going to use this witnessing approach with muslims, I need a way to talk about it in english.