Losing Salvation
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Here is what is in the true Christian's inner man created in righteousness and holiness now that they are in Christ - the new creation. This new man in Christ cannot hate. ( the person not in Christ/darkness/unrighteousness/unbeliever and the flesh can hate )
Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
The new creation in Christ cannot sin because it is born of God - this is where Christ lives in the Person of the Holy Spirit.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Now we need to walk by the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh as the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect what we are in Christ in our new creation ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 )
Galatians 5:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
The new creation in Christ cannot sin because it is born of God - this is where Christ lives in the Person of the Holy Spirit.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Now we need to walk by the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh as the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect what we are in Christ in our new creation ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 )
Galatians 5:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
For one thing....if the "old man" is not dead....then Christ has not died because we ( ie..our old man ) died with Him on the cross. The old man died with Christ but his old ways and programing is left in our flesh
We become new creations in Christ with a "new man" created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:24
We still have the flesh which is the left over after the "old man" died. This is where I believe the confusion comes in with people. It is unfortunate that the NIV bible had translated "flesh" as the "sinful nature" which has for years thrown people off. I believe in their new edition of the bible they have fixed this mis-translation.
The term "flesh" is used 3 different ways in the NT.
1) the carnal ways of thinking and actions left over from the prior manner of living from the old man - this is where renewing our minds comes in
2) it is used when talking about self-effort
3) and sometimes it just means the "fleshly-meat - the body" itself
In this "flesh" there is the "power of sin".....these two are in cahoots together. Flesh and the power of sin in working together know what "works" with you in the past. The power of sin knows your history and what works with you. Whatever areas in the past that you have struggled with is what the "sin in your flesh" will be bringing to you in your mind.
The power of sin says you are guilty and worthless but the Holy Spirit in your new man says you are the righteousness of God in Christ, you are loved..etc. You are in Christ now.
The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we are and were used to left over from the old man. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )
Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.
Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man ) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( in the flesh).
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man),
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
italics = my words
Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13
We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the power of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."
As long as we are on this earth and in this body we will have to contend with the world, the flesh and the devil. The good news is that our Lord Jesus Christ has defeated all 3 of them!
As we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus....we manifest outwardly in our behavior who we already are in our new man in Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
This word "transformed" is the same word used for when Jesus was on the mount and was "transformed" in front of James, Peter and John. Jesus was manifesting His true self when speaking to Moses and Elijah. He already had within Him this glory that was revealed on the mount.
We become new creations in Christ with a "new man" created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:24
We still have the flesh which is the left over after the "old man" died. This is where I believe the confusion comes in with people. It is unfortunate that the NIV bible had translated "flesh" as the "sinful nature" which has for years thrown people off. I believe in their new edition of the bible they have fixed this mis-translation.
The term "flesh" is used 3 different ways in the NT.
1) the carnal ways of thinking and actions left over from the prior manner of living from the old man - this is where renewing our minds comes in
2) it is used when talking about self-effort
3) and sometimes it just means the "fleshly-meat - the body" itself
In this "flesh" there is the "power of sin".....these two are in cahoots together. Flesh and the power of sin in working together know what "works" with you in the past. The power of sin knows your history and what works with you. Whatever areas in the past that you have struggled with is what the "sin in your flesh" will be bringing to you in your mind.
The power of sin says you are guilty and worthless but the Holy Spirit in your new man says you are the righteousness of God in Christ, you are loved..etc. You are in Christ now.
The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we are and were used to left over from the old man. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )
Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.
Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man ) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( in the flesh).
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man),
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
italics = my words
Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13
We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the power of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."
As long as we are on this earth and in this body we will have to contend with the world, the flesh and the devil. The good news is that our Lord Jesus Christ has defeated all 3 of them!
As we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus....we manifest outwardly in our behavior who we already are in our new man in Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
This word "transformed" is the same word used for when Jesus was on the mount and was "transformed" in front of James, Peter and John. Jesus was manifesting His true self when speaking to Moses and Elijah. He already had within Him this glory that was revealed on the mount.
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For anyone that has an interest in this subject - here is a great teaching by Dr. Martyn Loyd-Jones. Dead to sin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTUv0zitbkw
Or here is another one in video format.
[video=youtube;vRwok6bfzrU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRwok6bfzrU[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTUv0zitbkw
Or here is another one in video format.
[video=youtube;vRwok6bfzrU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRwok6bfzrU[/video]
There's a difference between saying the old man is dead (which is true) and the old man doesn't exist anymore (which is entirely false). You use the language of the former clause to mean the language of the latter clause. So when you say the old man is dead, what you really mean is that the old man doesn't exist anymore, which is ridiculous.
This is just the mind game that you play with yourself to convince yourself that you are only the new man, and this process becomes the way of salvation, i.e., focusing on who you are, which is nothing more than the gnostic tradition that right knowledge is what saves.
This is just the mind game that you play with yourself to convince yourself that you are only the new man, and this process becomes the way of salvation, i.e., focusing on who you are, which is nothing more than the gnostic tradition that right knowledge is what saves.
There was an "old man" in Adam but there is now a "new man" in Christ. Knowing these truths will help us grow up in Christ and to renew our minds to who we really are in Him now. We are exhorted to put on the new man in Christ and not the old manner of life that was associated with the old man that was in Adam.
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Romans 6:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Romans 6:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
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Again peoples, if we have received Salvation by Grace from God and Faith from God then how can we lose our Salvation?
Did we receive it by not sinning? Did we receive it by flying to the moon? Did we receive it by walking on broken glass?
No.
We received Salvation by believing Jesus is God.
Now if we had received Salvation by works then yes we can lose our Salvation by not doing works.
Its not that we can lose our Salvation, its that we have peoples among us who claim they have received Salvation and follow God but yet God calls these persons False Prophets.
The Holy Spirit has warned us about those who seek out to destroy our walk with God with their lies and deceptions.
Matthew 7:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
We can know these people by their fruits. Fruits like teaching we need Baptism before we can receive Salvation. Fruits like we can lose our Salvation by sinning.
We have them here in this chat room. Posing as Christians but following Satan instead.
Did we receive it by not sinning? Did we receive it by flying to the moon? Did we receive it by walking on broken glass?
No.
We received Salvation by believing Jesus is God.
Now if we had received Salvation by works then yes we can lose our Salvation by not doing works.
Its not that we can lose our Salvation, its that we have peoples among us who claim they have received Salvation and follow God but yet God calls these persons False Prophets.
The Holy Spirit has warned us about those who seek out to destroy our walk with God with their lies and deceptions.
Matthew 7:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
We can know these people by their fruits. Fruits like teaching we need Baptism before we can receive Salvation. Fruits like we can lose our Salvation by sinning.
We have them here in this chat room. Posing as Christians but following Satan instead.
You are reading into the scriptures what you want them to say not reading out of them what they actually say. Water baptism cannot save only God can save by His marvelous grace.
Acts 16:25 ¶ And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one’s bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Paul told the jailer all he needed to do in response to the question what must I do to be saved was believe. Water baptism always follows and never precedes salvation.
John acknowledge early that his baptism was not a baptism unto salvation but unto repentance and that the baptism that Jesus would baptize with was one of the Holy Spirit demonstrating that it could only be administered by God. This is the baptism that quickens or makes alive that which was dead.
John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
If you are going to rely upon your water baptism for salvation then you depending upon something other than the grace of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Acts 16:25 ¶ And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one’s bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Paul told the jailer all he needed to do in response to the question what must I do to be saved was believe. Water baptism always follows and never precedes salvation.
John acknowledge early that his baptism was not a baptism unto salvation but unto repentance and that the baptism that Jesus would baptize with was one of the Holy Spirit demonstrating that it could only be administered by God. This is the baptism that quickens or makes alive that which was dead.
John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
If you are going to rely upon your water baptism for salvation then you depending upon something other than the grace of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Again HeRoseFromTheDead you totally misquote from the Scriptures to deceive the very Elect into following you and not God. The Works in James is works OF Faith. We will do Works because we have our Salvation. James is not talking about works for Salvation.
James 2:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
James is talking about Faith, not about Salvation.
You really need to receive Salvation before its too late.
Will you ever accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? Or will you continue fight against the Holy Spirit?
James 2:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
James is talking about Faith, not about Salvation.
You really need to receive Salvation before its too late.
Will you ever accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? Or will you continue fight against the Holy Spirit?
There's a bit more to it than that. John's baptism was of repentance into forgiveness of sins (not into repentance), just as Jesus' baptism was (is). So those who were baptized under John had their sins forgiven, just as with Jesus' baptism. They both proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom of heaven, and both baptized into the forgiveness of sins, which was the first step into that kingdom.
John was there baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance into the forgiveness of sins. Mark 1:4
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-11
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-11
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