my last argument for obedience

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slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
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Are you perfect? A simple yes or no shall suffice.
This is a question that corners a man isn't it? The answer is yes and no. My question for you is do you find jasonj being pompous? I do not see that! Righteousness means a right relationship with God, thus Jesus on a Cross has set this to be active once more and fruitful as well as secured in Christ Jesus in His Resurrection in our lives. For I have been Crucified thru Christ and I no longer live, but I do live, for Christ lives in me. Thus, is Christ perfect? Yes! Can I be perfect in Christ? Yes! Many of us part ways there....

Yet God says to pick up your cross daily and follow Me. This is not faith by works but faith that works, and is put to work. There is a cost for us that we pay in simply living to love as a verb, as Jesus loved. God has guaranteed this success, but we must event it by our obedience, and diligence and steadfastness; in essence, our success comes from intentionality coupled with God's enablement in the midst of daily living costs, along with being found hidden in Christ thru circumstances that only Christ in us will find joy in; no less survive in outside of our disposition in Christ.

The perfect relationship we have with Christ (or Righteousness), therefore has a continual forward motion based on Him as the premise; in our will being laid alongside His moving on-goingly and upwardly. In the practicality of such a life, "man plans his course, but the Lord establishes his steps." (Proverbs 16:9). Thus, as we event our faithful walk mistakes can, and most probably will happen. This is never to suggest an inevitability to sinning, as God finishes His work in us growing us up. For God will be our refuge every step of our growing up. Yet, in that event of growing, we can be weak and fall to temptation. This is where Gods grace is seen even on the regeneration side,

"If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The thing there to remember is what "confession" means. That we ourselves think of ourself as being wrong in not staying faithful. We then thru intentionality change our direction in faith set once more assail in Christ; To go a way that you believe will no longer falter again by any preemptive considerations. For you trust Christ is capable to do all things in you in relationship to Sin.

Anytime sin has a foothold by it showing it's fruit in sins, the Saint finds himself immediately stepping away from Christ, and the power of our righteousness becomes disengaged. We must confess to God our sins, and move to stand once again against the Being; that which is Sin, or the nature of Sin will, in time, devour all things of Christ left in you. We must choose which Spirit we serve but we must choose Jesus to be our first fruit or Satan has our number in our original contract vented by Adam. Only us hidden in Christ can we stay in the winning position the Cross has guaranteed us; yet guaranteed indeed it is.. We must understand the nature of both Spirits, neither of whom will allow the other to share in our soul. They will war against one another until one only exists, Satan can't beat God in that but can us if we do not act in placing Christ in our first fruit position. Whereas, God has Satan's number, thru Christ. Thus, Satan's Spirit will always have our number and by that fact we will rid God of our soul, by the power God has laid in our will for love's sake, that Satan sits God's face with in his over-ruling Spirit destroying God in us and destroying, therefore, us as well.. Our future has only one option - we must submit to Jesus Christ the Victor; Christ the giver of life and that more abundantly!

So, is this the answer that fits your doctrine? Rendering it nothing short of "all-in" in trust and obedience with God, and death to the right to yourself thru Christ Jesus? Praying expectantly, living righteously, and experiencing purity of mind and body becoming in your own disposition in Christ that which is victorious? By the practical steps of the Holy Spirit finishing Christ's work in you? If so, Amen brother!

 
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J

jasonj

Guest

Jesus words are now a man made religion Lol?? letting the word dwell richly in you includes doing the word. " you are really my disciples if you Hold to my teaching" there is no argument in obeying Jesus, He earned our devotion. its the only way. Him.
 
T

thepsalmist

Guest
If we do not feel compelled to be obedient to Christ ... then we surely must question whether we are reborn again in Him. Our new life IS Christ ... and Christ is not divided against Himself.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus words are now a man made religion Lol?? letting the word dwell richly in you includes doing the word. " you are really my disciples if you Hold to my teaching" there is no argument in obeying Jesus, He earned our devotion. its the only way. Him.

Jason...that sign was to show the Christian died with Christ. What in the world does this have to do with Jesus's words being a man-made religion? Why would you say such a crazy thing because the gospel says we have died with Christ on the cross and we are not our own anymore? Christ lives in us now.

I think you are not understanding things properly when they are being said.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God
.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,097
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So you are perfect? Is that what you're saying?

What is it about Jesus' death and Resurrection that's not good enough for your salvation?
There can be two sides to this question: "What is it about Jesus' death and Resurrection is not good enough for narrow purity lived out as He instructs, and purposes? And as He demonstrated in Himself here on earth, whom now lives in you and me to succor such provincial ends of God's Kingdom.

Is not your faith: faith not by works but a faith that leads to good works? "For it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill His good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13). "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

It's, therefore, maybe not a question of Salvation accepted, but of Holiness realized in Salvation well-received.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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yeah...that is how I see it

a tree planted by water always has to have the water...right? ...and we all know that water is also a metaphor for the Holy Spirit...streams of 'living waters'

the Bible fits together really well...(understatement)...but all 66 books...not pulling out a phrase that we think backs up what we are trying to push...(generic we)
Amen...and we have this to look forward to through out all of eternity. I wonder what the incomparable riches of His grace is going to look like - I think it's the Father showing us more about what Jesus really is like.

There is no greater revelation then to know Jesus and the Father. ( I got your trees and water in the picture..:) )

We have a good, loving Father and a great salvation in our Lord!


 
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slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
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But one would be naive to think we die thru osmosis, and not practically, experientially, and in a revelation in ourselves God must take us to and one we must apply ourselves to from that experience that God must wrought out in us before that death is real. We are given instantly all of Gods resources the minute we ask God into our life, yet we only can use what we understand we have when we use it. We must also, understand the need of our death to our right to ourselves. But, unless we go thru the laying of it at the foot of Jesus, ourself it will not be our own. It will only be pretentious. And there is no power in it.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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But one would be naive to think we die thru osmosis, and not practically, experientially, and in a revelation in ourselves God must take us to and one we must apply ourselves to from that experience that God must wrought out in us before that death is real. We are given instantly all of Gods resources the minute we ask God into our life, yet we only can use what we understand we have when we use it. We must also, understand the need of our death to our right to ourselves. But, unless we go thru the laying of it at the foot of Jesus, ourself it will not be our own. It will only be pretentious. And there is no power in it.

I agree that as we grow in grace and knowledge of what Jesus did for us we will walk out in our lives who we already are in Christ.

It's all in the revelation of Jesus and what He has done for us that transforms us. 2 Cor 3:17-18

The more we understand what happened to Christ on the cross and in His resurrection ..that they happened to us as well - the more these truths will transforms us as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to us.

If we could get a revelation of the truth of the below scriptures - this would stop a lot of religious activity to "die to ourselves".

It's in the "knowing that we have already died" that enables us to "be alive unto God and live with Him".


Romans 6:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.


[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we
believe that we shall also live with Him,

This verse is my favorite: I trust that He will work in me as I participate with Him in it.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

 
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jasonj

Guest
I'm positive Jesus does not want us calling anyone a pharisee...BTW, wasn't Paul a pharisee?

the problem is Christians poking into the hearts of other Christians...I don't think you are trying to do that here, but I do think there is some misunderstanding going on..on both sides somewhat

actually I understand their points, I used to think that was everyuthing also. I get why they think what they think. Listen I am nothing, no one special or worthy at all, I do honestly consider myself less than all, Truthfully in the sight of Jesus who you all cant possibly think I don't believe in with all of my heart. I knew the book of romans., " the romans road" to salvation, at least 15 years ago, God gave me understanding. I do fully understand the doctirnes they hold to and I understand how we cling to that wonderful Hope, and I understand about Obedience offending a person in that doctrine thinking, I do understand perfectly the grace alone things I used to believe its all there was. I appreciate and depend on Christ every moment no matter where in the world I am, I carry His word in my pocket and my heart. Why??????? because the word of God is the truth, and He is my rock, not saying I love Him, but stepping into the spirit of His teachings, wich are the greatest Love. they teach us to lay down our lives for others. its Just the truth. Grace forgave us for the old, it does not allow us to go back to the old man and live for Him. " for we are convinced that one died for all, therefore all died. and he died for them that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died"

if I say to follow Jesus words, I am in agreement with the very Words of God. to obey Jesus is beyond reproach of any man, and will eternally be fully approved By God the Father. if the great commandment is to Love god with everything we are, and the word of God says clearly, Love for God is to follow His commands....wich are Love, the teachings of Jesus. where is the debate seriously friend? if a Christian doctrine makes obedience offensive to someone...there is something not right or complete. Grace is to make us obedient to the commands of Life, the commands of Sin are death. we are able by faith
 
J

jasonj

Guest
This is a question that corners a man isn't it? The answer is yes and no. My question for you is do you find jasonj being pompous? I do not see that! Righteousness means a right relationship with God, thus Jesus on a Cross has set this to be active once more and fruitful as well as secured in Christ Jesus in His Resurrection in our lives. For I have been Crucified thru Christ and I no longer live, but I do live, for Christ lives in me. Thus, is Christ perfect? Yes! Can I be perfect in Christ? Yes! Many of us part ways there....

Yet God says to pick up your cross daily and follow Me. This is not faith by works but faith that works, and is put to work. There is a cost for us that we pay in simply living to love as a verb, as Jesus loved. God has guaranteed this success, but we must event it by our obedience, and diligence and steadfastness; in essence, our success comes from intentionality coupled with God's enablement in the midst of daily living costs, along with being found hidden in Christ thru circumstances that only Christ in us will find joy in; no less survive in outside of our disposition in Christ.

The perfect relationship we have with Christ (or Righteousness), therefore has a continual forward motion based on Him as the premise; in our will being laid alongside His moving on-goingly and upwardly. In the practicality of such a life, "man plans his course, but the Lord establishes his steps." (Proverbs 16:9). Thus, as we event our faithful walk mistakes can, and most probably will happen. This is never to suggest an inevitability to sinning, as God finishes His work in us growing us up. For God will be our refuge every step of our growing up. Yet, in that event of growing, we can be weak and fall to temptation. This is where Gods grace is seen even on the regeneration side,

"If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The thing there to remember is what "confession" means. That we ourselves think of ourself as being wrong in not staying faithful. We then thru intentionality change our direction in faith set once more assail in Christ; To go a way that you believe will no longer falter again by any preemptive considerations. For you trust Christ is capable to do all things in you in relationship to Sin.

Anytime sin has a foothold by it showing it's fruit in sins, the Saint finds himself immediately stepping away from Christ, and the power of our righteousness becomes disengaged. We must confess to God our sins, and move to stand once again against the Being; that which is Sin, or the nature of Sin will, in time, devour all things of Christ left in you. We must choose which Spirit we serve but we must choose Jesus to be our first fruit or Satan has our number in our original contract vented by Adam. Only us hidden in Christ can we stay in the winning position the Cross has guaranteed us; yet guaranteed indeed it is.. We must understand the nature of both Spirits, neither of whom will allow the other to share in our soul. They will war against one another until one only exists, Satan can't beat God in that but can us if we do not act in placing Christ in our first fruit position. Whereas, God has Satan's number, thru Christ. Thus, Satan's Spirit will always have our number and by that fact we will rid God of our soul, by the power God has laid in our will for love's sake, that Satan sits God's face with in his over-ruling Spirit destroying God in us and destroying, therefore, us as well.. Our future has only one option - we must submit to Jesus Christ the Victor; Christ the giver of life and that more abundantly!

So, is this the answer that fits your doctrine? Rendering it nothing short of "all-in" in trust and obedience with God, and death to the right to yourself thru Christ Jesus? Praying expectantly, living righteously, and experiencing purity of mind and body becoming in your own disposition in Christ that which is victorious? By the practical steps of the Holy Spirit finishing Christ's work in you? If so, Amen brother!


My entire doctrine, is know, keep and do Jesus teachings to me. ive disappeared, never saw this coming 15 years ago when I found the atonement in romans 6,7,8. and the other places. it was complex, God has now simplified His word in me by His spirit. Follow Jesus with all of my heart, in truth. and spread the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, who is grace, and also TRUTH.

"Dear friends let us not Love with words or tongue, but with action and in truth" 1 john....umm eek I cant think atm but its there

the op scripture from 2 john is powerful, I cant argue folk any longer. was thinking of a small study group may be more profitable
 
Feb 9, 2010
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The truth is some people frustrate the truth,and go overboard with some scriptures,and lessen the impact of other scriptures,and do not rightly divide the word of truth,ignoring some scriptures that appear to go against their belief,and do not take the scriptures for what they are.

We are not saved by works,for example,which would mean a person can sit on a couch all day,show no love towards people,like help the poor,and do not preach the Gospel of Christ,and only say Jesus you are my Savior,and they would be saved,and if they say,you cannot do that and be right with God,then works go towards our salvation.

But not saved by works is not talking about after we are saved,but Paul is telling the Gentiles,that all the works they do,in their religions,will not cause them to have favor with God,but only by accepting Christ,but after we are saved we have to do works of the Spirit,and if we do not then faith is not active in our life,and then no salvation,so works of the Spirit,that we do,count towards salvation,for if we do not do them,we are not saved.

And that is what some people do is they have a certain belief about a scripture,and sometimes do not even understand what it applies to,and then they have on spiritual blinders and only see it that way,and do not harmonize scriptures.

Oh,we are not saved by works ever,but that is people trying to get right with God,without Christ,but that is all they see,not saved by works.

Oh,we are saved by faith alone,but the Bible says faith alone cannot save us,but that is all they see,we are saved by faith alone.

Oh,God choose us in the beginning,but the Bible says God does the calling on earth,and the choosing on earth,and the Lamb as slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood was shed from the foundation of the world,and all works that were to happen in the future,were finished from the foundation of the world,and God is not willing that any perish,but all come to repentance,and be saved,and God is the Savior of all men,but all they see is God chose us in the beginning.

They do not harmonize scriptures,and rightly divide the word of truth,but once they have a belief,that is what they believe,and ignore scriptures that appear to go against them.

And I will stop with posting like this,because I have a hard time with it,and am not saying I am better,but learned to harmonize scriptures,and rightly divide the word of truth,but I suppose we were all like that at one point,until we learned more about the Bible,or were willing to accept all scriptures,and understand them,instead of having a belief that we will not shake,even if the Bible appears to go against it.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
If we do not feel compelled to be obedient to Christ ... then we surely must question whether we are reborn again in Him. Our new life IS Christ ... and Christ is not divided against Himself.

amen and amen !!! I think in our minds before we accept it, we hear obedience and link it back to the letters on stone. The old Laws obedience" don't do these things or you will be punished severely" you must be able to keep a perfect rule or there will be no mercy" that is the curse that obedience was impossible for a sinner to be righteous. the old obedience to the Law of stone, meant and only could result in the death of man. " you will surely die" fulfilled through the Law wich is the "knowledge of Good and evil" or "through the law we become conscious of sin, or right and wrong standards are revealed in Law. also revealed is that God is Holy, man is unholy corrupted by sin wich is death.

The only purpose man had to obey the Laws on stone is to expose us for dead, revealing to the world our need for Jesus Christ who came by the Grace and becaiuse of the Love of God. Now that we are no longer under Law, we who believe in Jesus.....obedience is spirit and truth. One step a day into the words of Christ as your absolute Life, will open the eyes of anyone who will believe Him, not me, I'm nothing, But Jesus is worth following, He is truth and Life eternal. and even more is the obedience of paul, who endured every hardship, was homeless, insulted, flogged, imprisoned, rejected , persecuted, shipwrecked. many of His letter written from prison all for obedience to Christ who He truly saw and heard and believed. eventually tradition holds that paul was crucified, or skinned alive because of His refusal to deny the Lord. The new covenant demands far more from us than the old. the blood of Jesus compared to the blood of Goats and bulls. we were purchased with the highest price of all. that is the blood of Christs power in us, the price He paid before god on our behalf. that is the power of the gospel. sorry I rambled
 
E

ember

Guest
Amen...and we have this to look forward to through out all of eternity. I wonder what the incomparable riches of His grace is going to look like - I think it's the Father showing us more about what Jesus really is like.

There is no greater revelation then to know Jesus and the Father. ( I got your trees and water in the picture..:) )

We have a good, loving Father and a great salvation in our Lord!



well thank you kind sir!

love the trees and water...looks like you can swim in it too? shall we compare that to Baptism?

( leaves quickly before someone can push her in the water)
 
J

jasonj

Guest
well thank you kind sir!

love the trees and water...looks like you can swim in it too? shall we compare that to Baptism?

( leaves quickly before someone can push her in the water)

haha that's funny, needed a giggle
 
E

ember

Guest
actually I understand their points, I used to think that was everyuthing also. I get why they think what they think. Listen I am nothing, no one special or worthy at all, I do honestly consider myself less than all, Truthfully in the sight of Jesus who you all cant possibly think I don't believe in with all of my heart. I knew the book of romans., " the romans road" to salvation, at least 15 years ago, God gave me understanding. I do fully understand the doctirnes they hold to and I understand how we cling to that wonderful Hope, and I understand about Obedience offending a person in that doctrine thinking, I do understand perfectly the grace alone things I used to believe its all there was. I appreciate and depend on Christ every moment no matter where in the world I am, I carry His word in my pocket and my heart. Why??????? because the word of God is the truth, and He is my rock, not saying I love Him, but stepping into the spirit of His teachings, wich are the greatest Love. they teach us to lay down our lives for others. its Just the truth. Grace forgave us for the old, it does not allow us to go back to the old man and live for Him. " for we are convinced that one died for all, therefore all died. and he died for them that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died"

if I say to follow Jesus words, I am in agreement with the very Words of God. to obey Jesus is beyond reproach of any man, and will eternally be fully approved By God the Father. if the great commandment is to Love god with everything we are, and the word of God says clearly, Love for God is to follow His commands....wich are Love, the teachings of Jesus. where is the debate seriously friend? if a Christian doctrine makes obedience offensive to someone...there is something not right or complete. Grace is to make us obedient to the commands of Life, the commands of Sin are death. we are able by faith

aww gee whiz Jason

I feel kind of caught in the middle and not sure you quite understand? please don't take that as offensive

it's both....some people find Romans so hard to understand...but you guys are kind of saying the same from...oh well another picture in my mind (that's how God often speaks to me by His Spirit) from ACROSS the water

It's the SAME water man!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
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It irks me that people are presenting obedience to Christ as being motivated by fear (lest you be cut off) instead of being motivated by love. I have read through this thread and I hate how people are treating obedience to Christ as a chore instead of a relationship where He is leading your life to walk in the good works He has prepared.

Obedience isn't found in seeing the commands, setting the righteous bar, and then going for it. As if striving in the flesh and morality meets His standard. Such efforts are worthless. It is God who sanctifies us and all that we do is rest in Jesus. Strive to enter that rest. Be holy as He is holy.

That isn't something that is even attainable, don't fool yourself. VVith such a command He gives provision. He has made you holy, and righteous. VVe must awake to righteousness and sin not, as it were. Come to the realization of who God has made us to be as new creations and walk it out. As some people say, "right believing leads to right living."
 
J

jasonj

Guest
Jason...that sign was to show the Christian died with Christ. What in the world does this have to do with Jesus's words being a man-made religion? Why would you say such a crazy thing because the gospel says we have died with Christ on the cross and we are not our own anymore? Christ lives in us now.

I think you are not understanding things properly when they are being said.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God
.

ok. god bless you guys :)
 
J

jasonj

Guest
It irks me that people are presenting obedience to Christ as being motivated by fear (lest you be cut off) instead of being motivated by love. I have read through this thread and I hate how people are treating obedience to Christ as a chore instead of a relationship where He is leading your life to walk in the good works He has prepared.

Obedience isn't found in seeing the commands, setting the righteous bar, and then going for it. As if striving in the flesh and morality meets His standard. Such efforts are worthless. It is God who sanctifies us and all that we do is rest in Jesus. Strive to enter that rest. Be holy as He is holy.

That isn't something that is even attainable, don't fool yourself. VVith such a command He gives provision. He has made you holy, and righteous. VVe must awake to righteousness and sin not, as it were. Come to the realization of who God has made us to be as new creations and walk it out. As some people say, "right believing leads to right living."

follow Jesus ben, the holy spirit is always saying it. God bless sorry ur erked, but follow Jesus that's what the holy spirit will always be saying. the spirit of God is always always saying obey Jesus. that is just that partner, you know it also. there is the spirit of Christ and the spirit of satan, the corrupted one.

2 john v9-10 " anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teachings of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD: whoever CONTINUES in the teaching has both the father and the son...furthermore Benjamin, v 10 if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome Him, anyone who welcomes Him shares in His wicked work."


Now ben what do the teachings of Christ mean to a believer? what does it mean to continuie in His teachings? the ones in the 4 gospels, that he says do these things...do these things wise builder ect....the teachings of Jesus Christ aren't important to salvation? they aren't the most important part of a Christians Life, to follow them? actually think it through and realize the scripture doesn't deceive or Lie