my last argument for obedience

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I believe the parable of the unforgiving debtor, I believe BECAUSE I am forgiven, I forgive. if I am forgiven and refuse to forgive.....well check the parable. I do not believe I'm already forgiven no matter what I do, absolutely not. I believe Grace made me new, did not remove my responsibility to obey the Lord.

Hi Jasonj, I agree, and just to that right there I would to confirm.

The servant starts off forgiven (first) and goes around beating his fellow servant up (as he is supposed to forgive AS I ALSO FORGAVE YOU) thats past tense. But this forgiven servant does not do as his lord has done unto him is just plain unmerciful and his lord becomes wroth and he hands over that "formally forgiven" (but now wicked servant "revealed") over to the tormentors

And Jesus adds (and to his own disciples)

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you,
if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

James shows the same thing in the parable here basically as he writes,

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy;
and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Handing unmerciful souls over to the tormentors is as imparting fear in the previously forgiven who continues to be unmerciful (and is revealed to be the wicked servant) not doing as his lord.

And so just as fear hath torment, I see it as a good thing that the same is imparted to such a one unmerciful, as the Father knows what he is doing in delivering one to that.

Someone might say, God hath not given us a Spirit of fear but of love and sound mind (well) but that servant wasnt walking in that love (or extending any such forgiveness) to their fellowservants which owed them the smallest of things (nothing compared to what that servant was forgiven of).

Phil 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do:
and the God of peace shall be with you.

There is no peace to the wicked (its a picture of being the tormented) and since fear itself hath torment (and he that fears is not made perfect in love) and by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil (such as being unmerciful) its just. Its even a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you, and this is among brethren (where we are chastised of the Lord.

And that is a picture (IMO) a of judgment without mercy imparted into such a ones bosom (who shewed no mercy) with a TILL behind it. Jesus said that action towards any of them belongs to the Father (as he is the Father of our spirits) and a forgiven WE ARE but this disciple is applied to unforgiveness going around making others pay us back in like manner (as pictured) but from our hearts.

When we are judged of the LORD we are chastened of the LORD, and in this case this servant is being shown the door to the prison house (of tormentors) for such a ones unmerciful treatment of others (and rightly so) he will appreciate mercy (and extending it) after he has been dealt with (by the Father)

Tormentors (as with chastening) show a greivous experience, and yet its a righteous thing with God to repay trouble to those who might trouble you and in this case I believe they agree together in the action taken in the picture.

This is one of my favorites parables too, you can bring forth so much insight out of that one

And I had posted a little on it here before

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/133767-forgive-others-who-sin-against-you-4.html#post2557024

Not that any agreed with me ofcourse but that is how it goes, some agree and some do not.

I dont agree with how you pit the scriptures against that particular picture which shows us the importance of a forgiven servant to show mercy. And if not how the heaven Father would do likewise to such a one who is unmerciful.

Zach 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:

Did he?

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Nope.

The forgiven servant (as is noted first in the parable) who becomes the "wicked servant" did not do true judgment in "showing compassion".

Picture of chastisement

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, (( till )) he should pay all that was due unto him. (a little fear of the Lord)

And even as fear hath torment, even as it says,

Prov 21:7 The robbery of the wicked shall destroy them; because they refuse to do judgment.

For they borrow (as in mercy) but payeth not again (not show mercy) and here such a one is being judged

1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Which is chastisement, and David says, blessed is the man whom the Lord chastens, even as one is trained thereby

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

He desires mercy not sacrifice, it is true judgement

Zach 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:

It enhances the picture versus brushing it under the rug

I wont strive with you concerning it, we just see it differently, I maintain the Lord is speaking true words concerning the Father and the importance of showing mercy. And how Jesus said will He would treat our unforgiveness (as is shown through a picture of such a one being judged (which is chastisement). Which is also not joyous experience but greivous and in this picture is for the purpose of changing the heart of an unmerciful person (which was unaffected by the forgiveness first given him) shown in his unmerciful treatment of his fellowservant.

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Again, Did he show mercy?

No, because his Lord reminds him of the compassion already shown him (first) saying

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

And that was AFTER the servant was forgiven his debt.

Being turned over for his lack of obedience in respects to showing mercy is a kindness since our obedience is fulfilled and not by some hands off approach.

And if you were the one being strangled by another brother and treated that way, your Lord coming in to aid you in the same way is a righteous thing there as it would be here.

1Thes 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you

And being those without chastisement are the bastards, that pictures shows hope even for those who have not learned (yet) to show mercy (which is a fruit of the Spirit) which after such chastisement yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

To me it confirms the scripture, the forgiveness, the fruit, the goal, the chastisement and the Fathers hand in the lives of believers even if after they are "sometimes" disobedient, it shows there that he can handle that situation and the being chastened (as spoken of elsewhere) can get results who are exercised by the same.

My last post on the matter, besides, I need to stop asking questions and I keep doing it from time to time, and I am so trying to break that bad habit of asking after anothers reasonings And I am trying to post what it is I do, and how I do so, and then drop it. Its a hard habit to break.

We must agree to disagree then, which I am fine by.

I agree though

 

[FreeNChrist]

A man caught in the dead zone on everest will die. When people save people from this area, there is nothing in one sense they do to save themselves, but they still have to walk, get up and follow.

I therefore find all this religious language from people who claim to not be religious odd. The problem has always been people need to understand how much they are loved, and how much love dwells already within them and to start forgiving and loving.

But the agenda is actually often do nothing, ignore sin, do not look at righteousness and purity, and just rejoice in your own personal fantasies of wealth and success which God will give you because you are now His child.

If you are like a child, you just follow, because you love, you trust your Father.
But the burden that is put on believers is now, beware of being motivated by self or the flesh, and seek out those who are self "motivated", because they are the evil works. So these believers condemn us a pharisees and hypocrites, unbelievers laying the burden of law on the faith, and they are setting people free to do as their nature desires which is now perfect, but actually not, because as they will testify, they continually fall into sin and self condemnation.

I call this unfortunately double speak, and nothing to do with just learning how to love from the heart, and knowing you can trust our Lord. It is not difficult.

Except that's not the way it is. The way it really is, is we are drowning with no hope at all, and Jesus has jumped in the water, grabbed hold of us, to lift us up to safety. The worst thing a drowning person can do is try to help the One saving them, they will only be working against Him. They are saved by simply resting in the arms of their Savior and letting Him save them.

 

[Utah]

My God is my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, it's Him who died to set me free and Him I worship. The kind of radical love that He gives is almost scandalous by human standards and reasoning, because it goes so far against man's way of 'rewards for obedience' teaching, or only loving the 'lovable and righteous'.

To God be the glory! I pray those who do not understand grace will one day do so.

Thank you for sharing this, Brother.

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus took the sin of the world away with His death on the cross. Everyone in the world has had sin forgiven but NOT everyone accepts this forgiveness that the blood of Jesus redeemed for us.

The parable in Matthew 18 is talking about a non-believer in Christ that has had his sin forgiven by God but he does not forgive others. Jesus spoke this parable to expose sin and to elevate the law so that people would realize their need for a Savior.

To say that God will NOT forgive unless we forgive is to deny the blood of Jesus. Every person that comes to Christ does not need to forgive others before they come to Christ.

We always need to interpret scripture through the lens of the finished work of Christ.

Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.

This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus. Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We have a new heart now - so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said .."If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin. So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive. We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Yes we are to obey God. But we are to do it by Faith not by works. Works of the Law cannot save us. Its a waste of time trying to keep the Law through your works.

Galatians 3:1-14

1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Its by FAITH we are Justified and its by FAITH we receive Salvation!

 

[Grace777x70]

For any believer that is dealing with how to forgive some one that has hurt them, this is a short 4 minute video that can help us...

[video=youtube;PlX4OY6tgqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlX4OY6tgqg[/video]

 

[B1Davanda]

Except that's not the way it is. The way it really is, is we are drowning with no hope at all, and Jesus has jumped in the water, grabbed hold of us, to lift us up to safety. The worst thing a drowning person can do is try to help the One saving them, they will only be working against Him. They are saved by simply resting in the arms of their Savior and letting Him save them.

Great post, brother!
If I can take it even further...it's even worse than drowning...we've pretty much taken in lungfuls, and are doing a dead-man's float.

Jesus, like a lifeguard, comes to save.
But it's like for some ppl, as soon as He starts to bring them to shore, they catch a breath, and suddenly think the lifeguard needs help.
They start flapping and flailing, thinking they're paddling
and somehow helping the lifeguard.

The lifeguard will get them there, because he's good at what he does.
It's not BECAUSE the victim is helping, but IN SPITE of it.

As 'FreeinChrist' pointed out, A lifeguard will tell you, they'd rather have the person unconscious sometimes, it can be easier to rescue them, than to have the person 'helping'. But the good lifeguard will perform the rescue either way.

It seems some ppl not only want to try to help the lifeguard, but when they get to shore, they want to, (yes, thank the lifeguard, but then add), 'Boy, it's a good thing I was obedient and paddled properly, or we might not have made it'.

That's nice, but it's not a help.
Jesus is a perfectly capable lifeguard (Savior)
The best. And He doesn't need our help.
We were dead. Jesus saved us.
We get new life in Christ. He gets the glory.
What a Savior. What a God. Hallelujah!

 

[jasonj]

Grace7x77 refuses to go outside his own construct and reinterpretation of simple words. In his mind obeying Christ is letting go of control and desire and letting God. This construct relies on the idea you have a new heart and spirit from God, which takes over. This is obedience to him.

To take the command love your neighbour is seen as a command only to show self is incapable of loving, rather than Jesus love sets us free to be able to love from our hearts. In their construct it is impossible for the self to love, because that is the flesh. To a degree we have two different faiths but with the same language. It is why our language does not work as the spiritual assumptions that underpin them are different.

It is though important to point out these differences, and how they change the meaning of Jesus, salvation and life.
How far this effects their salvation I do not know, but it is not disimilar to conversations with catholics and others who take a different view of spiritual foundations. It never gets anywhere until they are prepared to accept and see the meaning others put into the same words, which is why the same dead end seems to continue. God bless

The gog only sees Grace as a gift we receive and then were in forever. it releases all responsibility for us to do anything. it simply denies the truth of Jesus Christ. I find it interesting that its Known worldwide as the "gospel of Grace" really Jesus Christ is the Gospel. If Jesus said something it is eternal, the gog will every time oppose Jesus in favor of Paul, thinking we do nothing but say I believe. Jesus is the truth, His words are those of God Himself He sais " I say only what The Father Gives me to say." there are so many deceptive ways people will avoid the truth of Jesus Christ. the only teacher a Christian Has.

The only Lord a Christian Has. Paul himself gave an example of the fight and struggle, the race, he said how he beat His body into submission, he endured all the hardships imprisonements ect. but a person reads Paul, and takes it like hes saying say He Lord and ur in forever no matter what you do. That's the gogs issue. to believe it, is to deny the truth of Jesus. who the scriptuire says came with Grace and truth. Grace forgives us through the atonement makes us new, the truth is Jesus Christ and all of His words. they are eternal. any doctrine that somehow figures out why Jesus words do not apply, or are Less than anyone elses is not a doctrine of Gods spirit in Us, who is the spirit of Christ, who Himself said " My words are spirit, and they are Life." the gog keeps people away from Jesus words because it totally disagrees with their beliefs. that we do nothing, we aren't REQUIRED to obey. they Hear required to obey and link it to Law obedience making it a work for salvation idea....its all just avoiding Jesus.

Jesus, His words, His spirit, His truth is what Makes us free. " if you are really my dicsiples you will hold to my teaching and then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free" Jesus doesn't teach the gog, the gog is meant to make us understand the atonements power in us, and it directs us to the truth, The entire Bible only labels one person as the truth, the way, the Life, the Lord.....Jesus. you know this and many others also I'm positive.

I'm not upset I was for a moment, it offends me greatly when Jesus words are ignored in favor of any others, that's about the only thing that does upset my spirit. I wasn't sure about the gog, but I am now, as it is taught in the world today selling the millions of books, is a terrible harm to the church, hardening Hearts against the Lords Word of Truth and Life. The only gospel that exists is Jesus, anything other than Jesus is not the truth. all other scripture points ahead to His coming, or back to His appearing. even ot was pointing to Him, nt does also. the centerpiece Of Gods Kingdom is Jesus Christ and all of Him, not only the Lamb of sacrifice, but the Lord and teacher of every Christian who accepts Gods Kingdom. God bless you also peter, thank you for the insight

 

[jasonj]

Hi Jasonj, I agree, and just to that right there I would to confirm.

The servant starts off forgiven (first) and goes around beating his fellow servant up (as he is supposed to forgive AS I ALSO FORGAVE YOU) thats past tense. But this forgiven servant does not do as his lord has done unto him is just plain unmerciful and his lord becomes wroth and he hands over that "formally forgiven" (but now wicked servant "revealed") over to the tormentors

And Jesus adds (and to his own disciples)

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you,
if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

James shows the same thing in the parable here basically as he writes,

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy;
and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Handing unmerciful souls over to the tormentors is as imparting fear in the previously forgiven who continues to be unmerciful (and is revealed to be the wicked servant) not doing as his lord.

And so just as fear hath torment, I see it as a good thing that the same is imparted to such a one unmerciful, as the Father knows what he is doing in delivering one to that.

Someone might say, God hath not given us a Spirit of fear but of love and sound mind (well) but that servant wasnt walking in that love (or extending any such forgiveness) to their fellowservants which owed them the smallest of things (nothing compared to what that servant was forgiven of).

Phil 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do:
and the God of peace shall be with you.

There is no peace to the wicked (its a picture of being the tormented) and since fear itself hath torment (and he that fears is not made perfect in love) and by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil (such as being unmerciful) its just. Its even a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you, and this is among brethren (where we are chastised of the Lord.

And that is a picture (IMO) a of judgment without mercy imparted into such a ones bosom (who shewed no mercy) with a TILL behind it. Jesus said that action towards any of them belongs to the Father (as he is the Father of our spirits) and a forgiven WE ARE but this disciple is applied to unforgiveness going around making others pay us back in like manner (as pictured) but from our hearts.

When we are judged of the LORD we are chastened of the LORD, and in this case this servant is being shown the door to the prison house (of tormentors) for such a ones unmerciful treatment of others (and rightly so) he will appreciate mercy (and extending it) after he has been dealt with (by the Father)

Tormentors (as with chastening) show a greivous experience, and yet its a righteous thing with God to repay trouble to those who might trouble you and in this case I believe they agree together in the action taken in the picture.

This is one of my favorites parables too, you can bring forth so much insight out of that one

And I had posted a little on it here before

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/133767-forgive-others-who-sin-against-you-4.html#post2557024

Not that any agreed with me ofcourse but that is how it goes, some agree and some do not.




I agree though

definitely lots of great insight. concerning the fear of the Lord, it is something that comes WITH the holy spirit and is a great thing after one Believes in Jesus. that's why rejecting all of the responsabilities to obey Jesus will never help a Christian. God is to be feared, He is all powerful and we have all who read scripture, seen that He is Just, justice is not and never will apart from Gods character, I find Justice and the Law of mercy in the teachings of Christ. as im gathering you do also. we don't serve stone laws, we serve the Living Lord, His words are spirit and they are Life is what He says of them.

"by the measure you use, it will be measured to you" this principle I find throughout His teachings, and to me is the perfcet form of Justice and also mercy as found in this parable. Gods Mercy and goodness His compassion and Love shown and freely Given. we are full of Joy we are forgiven, what about when my friend tells a huge lie about me? or steals money from me? How will I treat Him? we are far from perfect indeed. But the infallibility of Following Jesus teachings and Gospel, is that it provides forgiveness, and also purifies our minds and hearts. His teachings aren't like Law, Law was hard and dead, no mercy " purge the sin from among you" " surely you must stone the child who curses his parent...ect. This view, is the dead man seeing Gods Law, wich the Law is good and right...we weren't, we were evil hated Gods Law by nature objects of His wrath, not because of His wrong, but because of our corrupt heart. Jesus is far more and better and worthy of serving and trusting in.

His Law is Mercy and Justice, forgiveness and righteousness all the righteous requoirements of the Law are found in Jesus words. noit only that, Buit also His words are the bread of Life, His words are spirit and truth, they are the daily bread we need to live, they are the way, truth and Life. simply......They are above all things to man, they are Law and grace, they are everything, and they are the only thing that will never pass away, the only thing with all authority in heaven and on earth. The very Words of God, they cannot ever be undervalued or disregarded to meet a man made doctrine, that is the true test of any Christian doctrine = Does what this doctrine teaches me, line up with the teachings of Jesus.........thank you I am gonna re read your comment, got sum the first time I read it, but it was rich, God bless

 

[jasonj]

Except that's not the way it is. The way it really is, is we are drowning with no hope at all, and Jesus has jumped in the water, grabbed hold of us, to lift us up to safety. The worst thing a drowning person can do is try to help the One saving them, they will only be working against Him. They are saved by simply resting in the arms of their Savior and letting Him save them.

That's not at all what you guys have been saying though is the issue. your contention is that you are already SAVED. that's the doctrine you all hold to its all finished already. What did peter spend His life doing when He was saved????? its okayyou can say it you guys are all saying ur saved and have been imparted the righteousness of Jesus Christ, all by Grace your all new creations, you say you are standing in faith and your saved. so....how are you now saying your currently sinking and not supposed to do anything ? I cant wait to hear this one......avoidance of the truth number 88....and .....go

 

[jasonj]

To God be the glory! I pray those who do not understand grace will one day do so.

Thank you for sharing this, Brother.

you love Jesus???? tell me one of the many descriptions He says is Love to Him ? if you don't Know check john 14-15, and any of the op scriptures. you Love Jesus, love Him like HE makes plain. His words, the one you just praised as Lord and savior...id ask in His words " why do you call me lord lord and do not do what I say?.....

Listen you guys can cling to the doctrine of Grace, I will spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, whoever Belongs to Him will hear His words and see the truth of what He says, and what God the Father says of Him. what do you all make of Grace and truth coming through Jesus? what is it to walk in the truth ? again check the books of 123 john and answer that one. Grace and truth is what Chjrist brought, Grace is not God, Grace and truth were offered By God in the form of Jesus Christ the Lamb......But also the King od Kings and Lord of Lords. in what Kingdom is a subject free of the Kings commands? you guys never ever even dealt with the op scriptures or the many others, your purpose is to preach a Jesus less gospel....definitely Not Christian doctrine. My true message once again is this : Go to your own Bibles, pray each time for understanding and truth, study the Lord Jesus in matthew, mark, Luke and John, but don't go into it believing its not Gods word lol. or that His words don't apply to CHRISTIANS. do that with an open Heart in prayer for say, 1 month, a chapter or 2 everyday.....after that, tell me how Jesus taught a gospel other than what He taught. and youll all save my soul.......the only catch is, I will never accept anything that disregards Jesus teachings...........this is like the 8th challenge btw Jesus should be where yall want to Go, all I'm sayin is God to Jesus words n learn if what you think is in accordance with His words. I do not feel the least bit sorry, but fully approved because My backup is so infallible. Jesus words, look into them and find the truth

 

[jasonj]

you cant understand because you wont accept the Light. the only Light is Jesus, His words are spirit and truth. the enemy is good at quoting scripture, but you know what he would NEVER EVVVVER SAY ?????? Hed never speak this message : Go to the 4 gospels and learn Jesus and do whatever Jesus says for His followers to do...

That's what the enemy of God would never utter, never ACCEPT as the truth. why ? because Jesus is the truth and He knows that what I'm telling you will set someone free if they do it. that's the gospel. listen lets have an agreement. you study the gospels as if they are your Lords words, ill study a paul awhile ( which I can already pretty much quote His letters because of Gods Grace) but lets do that ????? wanna give each other our word? and well both ask God to help the other understand...each day for a month, then well talk again???? honestly a friendly offer to try to bring us near something fruoitful? if you deny this one, I'm gonna have to Just let it Go

 

[JennaLeanne]

There is no fruit in any of this.... It's really quite upsetting to read.. I'm coming off here because it's just constant disagreement... its the same thing you are all saying over and over again.. and getting where ? Because you all just believe what your saying is true... I'm out. Love you all

 

[jasonj]

Great post, brother!
If I can take it even further...it's even worse than drowning...we've pretty much taken in lungfuls, and are doing a dead-man's float.

Jesus, like a lifeguard, comes to save.
But it's like for some ppl, as soon as He starts to bring them to shore, they catch a breath, and suddenly think the lifeguard needs help.
They start flapping and flailing, thinking they're paddling
and somehow helping the lifeguard.

The lifeguard will get them there, because he's good at what he does.
It's not BECAUSE the victim is helping, but IN SPITE of it.

As 'FreeinChrist' pointed out, A lifeguard will tell you, they'd rather have the person unconscious sometimes, it can be easier to rescue them, than to have the person 'helping'. But the good lifeguard will perform the rescue either way.

It seems some ppl not only want to try to help the lifeguard, but when they get to shore, they want to, (yes, thank the lifeguard, but then add), 'Boy, it's a good thing I was obedient and paddled properly, or we might not have made it'.

That's nice, but it's not a help.
Jesus is a perfectly capable lifeguard (Savior)
The best. And He doesn't need our help.
We were dead. Jesus saved us.
We get new life in Christ. He gets the glory.
What a Savior. What a God. Hallelujah!

isn't your guys grace doctrine the one that says your already saved and already righteous? you don't understand Faith. read James version faith is not a lip service or even a feeling of gratitude, it is when you believe so much that you move. you guys and this works stuff lol the works of the Law have nothing to do with obeying Jesus. all of your doctrines have to disregard what He the Lord says to His followers. or you have to create man made ideas like " everything pre cross doesn't apply now" your faith is in letters and an empty belief, your faith is in doing nothing in response to the death and suffering of Jesus Christ, to ignore Jesus words is an insult to what He did for you, its actually offensive to me bout the only thing that is, but I sure will never ever take anything that disregards the one who died for mes words. yall are preaching nonsense to a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. the only Gospel, only one to follow. if you guys Love Him, go and learn what He says Loving Him is. then you have to deal with your own eyes looking in your own bible, after that, if he doesn't make sense, might want to consider who it is you are actually following in Life

 

[jasonj]

There is no fruit in any of this.... It's really quite upsetting to read.. I'm coming off here because it's just constant disagreement... its the same thing you are all saying over and over again.. and getting where ? Because you all just believe what your saying is true... I'm out. Love you all

take care Jenna, and no, my stance is that Jesus words are true, there stance is......honestly all I know is their stance is to avoid what Jesus teaches. But God bless you tho

 

[keepitsimple]

Give this beautiful song a listen and rest your weary soul Jason. You are in my prayers this evening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_rkjImav_8

 

[jasonj]

Give this beautiful song a listen and rest your weary soul Jason. You are in my prayers this evening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_rkjImav_8

Thank you for the prayer, Buit my soul is refreshed constantly, please do pray for Gods will in my life more and more tho, God bless

 

[keepitsimple]

Thank you for the prayer, Buit my soul is refreshed constantly, please do pray for Gods will in my life more and more tho, God bless

A soul refreshed trusts in God's Holy Spirit to do the work that only He can do. Not one of the Lord's precious beloved will be removed from His hand. Those are Jesus' words.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's not at all what you guys have been saying though is the issue. your contention is that you are already SAVED. that's the doctrine you all hold to its all finished already. What did peter spend His life doing when He was saved????? its okayyou can say it you guys are all saying ur saved and have been imparted the righteousness of Jesus Christ, all by Grace your all new creations, you say you are standing in faith and your saved. so....how are you now saying your currently sinking and not supposed to do anything ? I cant wait to hear this one......avoidance of the truth number 88....and .....go

Thats right "we" are already saved, because Jesus has saved us.

 

[jasonj]

A soul refreshed trusts in God's Holy Spirit to do the work that only He can do. Not one of the Lord's precious beloved will be removed from His hand. Those are Jesus' words.

yeah he also says "it is not those who call me lord lord who will enter into the Kingdom of God, ONLY those who DO the will of God" fyi, Jesus taught Gods will for man. the spirit comes through the words of Jesus Christ, the doctrine you guys are holding to agrees with MAYBE 5 percent of His words, which according to the doctrine u keep, makes the rest irrelevant. again........any Christian should be more than Happy to derve their King. since ur all saved n righteous by faith, time to step out of the boat and spend your self with the Lord in His service. The thing is, the holy spirit will NEVER make you do anything, God doesn't force anyone to accept. The spirits voice is found in Jesus Christ. How many words of His will support Grace alone? and How many make obedience very clearly a DUTY of a Christian???? for every one you find to support grace alone. ill give you 3 to support following Jesus. but that wont matter because you guys don't trust Him, if you did youd have faith to do ehat He says and not be so opposed to putting effort into following Him. again......study the true Gospels matt, mark, luke and John...


Luke 9:23 " if anyone would come after me, he MUST deny Himself daily, pick up His cross and FOLLOW me....is there any work or effort on our part?...hmm v26 " if anyone is ashamed of ME AND MY WORDS the son of man will be ashamed of Him when He comes in His glory and the glory of the father and of the holy angels...hmmm HIS WORDS.

Luke 19:11-27 have a look there at that parable and let me Know what u get from it or how about the ENTIRE CHAPTER 25 OF MATTHEW? how do these fit grace alone? How about the several statements of the apostles about how well reap what we sow? good =righteousness, evil= destruction? these are letters written to the already believing Church, warnings all throughout, the gog doesn't allow for you guys to see it tho. the word is clear, your glasses are foggy because of the "afraid to step into the Light that your deeds will be exposed"

you all understand if you study Jesus daily, it will demand your Life in His service. that's a lack of Faith, not the person who will follow, His faith is alive. there is action in faith, very clear, but the gog has corrupted the word in you, it teaches say I believe and God will make me do everything right.....and even if I don't do anything, I'm saved eternally and wil share in the Kingdom of God....that's just not what Jesus teaches His followers. if a person believes, they will act. that's faith, putting all effort and commitment into Jesus, because He really has given you His spirit...His spirit will always agree with His words, His words ARE spirit and truth..........there is no gospel from God that negates the words of Jesus, not only a few words to support a strange "gospel" but the words of Jesus the things he taught his followers to actually practice in their lives, those who will not? He has a true word for them also. I keep inviting any of you to study Jesus as the Lord for a bit,........in your own bible with prayer.....no one answered at all after 5 or so invitations....why is that I wonder? Christians ???? Jesus words are the words, pauls writings are pointing you to His words.