my last argument for obedience

[jasonj]

Jason, no one has said not to "obey" Christ. That is a thought that you constructed in your mind and then accuse others of not "obeying Christ".

A number of people have told you this yet you keep saying that people are not "obeying" Jesus despite how many times you are told the complete opposite.

Is it possible that what you are really saying is "If you do not interpret Jesus's words like I do - then you are not obeying Jesus"???

This is what is being seen in your posts by some. We know you love the Lord and that is beautiful and we encourage you to continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord. He will be faithful to you.

This discussion has been going on now for 25 pages and the same things are being said and no matter how many times people say believers are to obey Christ - you say believers in the grace of Christ for salvation only " do not want to obey Jesus' words".

This is obviously not going to be going anywhere productive as the conditions are not here for a healthy dialogue. I'm bowing out of this and I wish you well my brother! God bless you abundantly!...

do you not see anything that I have said, repeatedly Listen to this clear the dirt from your eyes : my message is go to YOUR own bible, Learn Jesus in the gospels for yourself, pray to God for understanding.

How is that my interpretation being forced on anyone? I would actually say that your a hypocrite with that statement, because YOU are the one who will not accept anything other than gog. and gog omits the teachings of Jesus. so yeah my interpretation so terrible : Go to the 4 gospels for yourself and learn what Jesus is saying. that's just a straight " herecy"and makes me a Christian bully n hard head huh? the things you are saying to me is actually what you and your friends are doing.

My message is clear. anyone who believes in Jesus should get their bible out and Learn His own words, ask of God who gives answers and then they will know the truth. that's pretty much me trying to make everyone agree with my views then????????????????????????????????? or has that been my repeated message ? I get you now completely, just finally figured you out man. I agree tho, theres no fruit between us, be well friend

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Why do you call the soul a she?

Soul is feminine in both Hebrew and Greek.

 

[KJV1611]

Soul is feminine in both Hebrew and Greek.

Ok thanks, but I want to know why eve said it.

 

[posthuman]

i've really been wanting to put this somewhere for a couple days now, and this thread seems like an appropriate place . .

there's no ' i ' in Chrstanty

​

​

now -- the true gospel is the finished work of Christ; don't take me wrong.
but if anyone thinks they have nothing on their own part to do, they lack understanding.
if anyone thinks differently, my God will also reveal this to them ♥

 

[PeterJens]

do you not see anything that I have said, repeatedly Listen to this clear the dirt from your eyes : my message is go to YOUR own bible, Learn Jesus in the gospels for yourself, pray to God for understanding.

How is that my interpretation being forced on anyone? I would actually say that your a hypocrite with that statement, because YOU are the one who will not accept anything other than gog. and gog omits the teachings of Jesus. so yeah my interpretation so terrible : Go to the 4 gospels for yourself and learn what Jesus is saying. that's just a straight " herecy"and makes me a Christian bully n hard head huh? the things you are saying to me is actually what you and your friends are doing.

My message is clear. anyone who believes in Jesus should get their bible out and Learn His own words, ask of God who gives answers and then they will know the truth. that's pretty much me trying to make everyone agree with my views then????????????????????????????????? or has that been my repeated message ? I get you now completely, just finally figured you out man. I agree tho, theres no fruit between us, be well friend

Grace7x77 refuses to go outside his own construct and reinterpretation of simple words. In his mind obeying Christ is letting go of control and desire and letting God. This construct relies on the idea you have a new heart and spirit from God, which takes over. This is obedience to him.

To take the command love your neighbour is seen as a command only to show self is incapable of loving, rather than Jesus love sets us free to be able to love from our hearts. In their construct it is impossible for the self to love, because that is the flesh. To a degree we have two different faiths but with the same language. It is why our language does not work as the spiritual assumptions that underpin them are different.

It is though important to point out these differences, and how they change the meaning of Jesus, salvation and life.
How far this effects their salvation I do not know, but it is not disimilar to conversations with catholics and others who take a different view of spiritual foundations. It never gets anywhere until they are prepared to accept and see the meaning others put into the same words, which is why the same dead end seems to continue. God bless

 

[Grace777x70]

i've really been wanting to put this somewhere for a couple days now, and this thread seems like an appropriate place . .

there's no ' i ' in Chrstanty

​

​

now -- the true gospel is the finished work of Christ; don't take me wrong.
but if anyone thinks they have nothing on their own part to do, they lack understanding.
if anyone thinks differently, my God will also reveal this to them ♥

Amen!....one of the aspects of grace is "empowering" to be who the Father sees us to be in Christ and to "do" His works in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren as well.

1 Corinthians 15:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

 

[PeterJens]

i've really been wanting to put this somewhere for a couple days now, and this thread seems like an appropriate place . .

there's no ' i ' in Chrstanty

​

​

now -- the true gospel is the finished work of Christ; don't take me wrong.
but if anyone thinks they have nothing on their own part to do, they lack understanding.
if anyone thinks differently, my God will also reveal this to them ♥

I used to accept these kind of statements in the past, but now I would say they miss-understand what I is, and what Jesus is calling us to. It is our I that chooses to follow, to walk, to love, to forgive, to obey. Without I we do not exist.

 

[Grace777x70]

To keep the false accusations down to a minimum - I will post this again about what grace777x70 says about obedience and love as they are all from our new man that is in Christ. The flesh profits nothing says Jesus.

This will be the 3rd time on this thread alone. But I will give it another shot - perhaps it will help the new viewers...

Quote:

I have not seen anyone in the "grace crowd" say NOT to obey Christ. That is a total mis-representation of the truth and it stems from not understanding the gospel of grace that is in Christ alone or not listening to what is really being said. We are to serve in newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

There is obedience and love in the New Covenant but it's source and motivation is different from the Old Covenant mindset of "doing in order to get". The Old Covenant was sourced on obeying rules and regulations.

The source of obedience and love in the New Covenant is from an exchanged life because we are new creations now in Christ and as we renew our minds to the truth and life that is in Jesus only - we walk out that life outwardly that reflects who we really are in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness in our inner man that is in Christ.

The fruit of His life in us flows through and in us to walk in love and obedience to a hurt and dying world and also to our brethren. It is not a matter of obeying rules - it's a matter of His life being expressed from us.

We are saved by grace through faith only in Christ's completed work. We then have good works but they are sourced by His life and love in us. No one that is believing in the grace of God says not to do good works.

We should all be living godly by the grace of God in our lives.

 

[posthuman]

I used to accept these kind of statements in the past, but now I would say they miss-understand what I is, and what Jesus is calling us to. It is our I that chooses to follow, to walk, to love, to forgive, to obey. Without I we do not exist.

this i is also a git from Him -- the ears that hear His calling, the will to listen and follow, the strength and spirit to walk and love and forgive and obey -- without that He grants us these things, this i does not exist

the new life He has given us is one that is willing to do His will, and delights in it

 

[FreeNChrist]

I actually used to like Tony Campolo, back in the day, but he has done much harm with his "Red Letter Christianity". It succeeds only in empowering the liberal agenda that so many want to impose upon the body of Christ.

 

[Utah]

and for our protection against evil, it is our strength in every way...it is the sword of the spirit

I thought you were implying it is for our safety from God.

 

[Utah]

i've really been wanting to put this somewhere for a couple days now, and this thread seems like an appropriate place . .

there's no ' i ' in Chrstanty

​

​

now -- the true gospel is the finished work of Christ; don't take me wrong.
but if anyone thinks they have nothing on their own part to do, they lack understanding.
if anyone thinks differently, my God will also reveal this to them ♥

Nothing on our part regarding what . . . Salvation?

No, there's nothing to do on our part.

 

[B1Davanda]

oh lol, I guess I'm a self righteous guy lol obeying Jesus is what He taught, what he told his disciples to teach. sorry, I will just say the truth ,God knows my heart and no one elses judgements matter to me in any way. If a person cant accept His words, they should consider who it is they actually have faith in, obeying Jesus is absolutely the way

jj, you're more and more reminding me of the same type of ppl that INSIST on water-works-baptism for others in order for them to be saved. There's this air of superiority, as if you or they have some formula for salvation down pat, and your job is now to go around telling other ppl that they're not saved unless they follow your formula.
There just doesn't seem to be any good news coming from you or those of that type.
It's not good news of freedom in Christ, it's jj's warnings about disobedience.
The god of works-righteous-obedience is still the god of self-righteousness, no matter how you try to couch the language or act like you're fulfilling the Lord's commandments to behave.
My God is my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, it's Him who died to set me free and Him I worship.
The kind of radical love that He gives is almost scandalous by human standards and reasoning, because it goes so far against man's way of 'rewards for obedience' teaching, or only loving the 'lovable and righteous'.

I'm thinking of another verse of rejoicing by Paul.....
Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT!!!
This from the man who referred to himself as
the chief among sinners, a wretched man,
who said he didn't do the things he wanted to,
but did do what he didn't want to.
And we don't see him boasting about how
he tries so hard to be obedient to Jesus' words,
but he said he boasts in the cross of Christ.
I wonder what you think of the woman singing
in this song. I and many ppl here would join in singing
with her I'm sure. Can you do the same?
[video=youtube;9DRSUoqh4fU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DRSUoqh4fU[/video]

 

[BenFTW]

It seems those emphasizing the red letters are not emphasizing the red blood. The cross changed things people, we need to rightly divide the word of God. Mixing law and grace nullifies both. There are many statements Jesus made that are addressing the self-righteous, in order for them to see their inadequacy to keep God's standard of perfection. I highly doubt any of you have gouged out your eyes or cut off your hands. Nor should you, as Jesus was emphasizing perfection. He wants you to see the necessity of Him as Savior.

 

[Grace777x70]

Nothing on our part regarding what . . . Salvation?

No, there's nothing to do on our part.

Amen...well in a strict sense there is something that we "do" for salvation. We do need to believe.

John 6:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Then there is the good works that stem from our "being in Christ" and having His life flow out of us to others. These are not for salvation but a by-product of His fruit manifesting in our lives as we walk by the Spirit within.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[PeterJens]

A man caught in the dead zone on everest will die. When people save people from this area, there is nothing in one sense they do to save themselves, but they still have to walk, get up and follow.

I therefore find all this religious language from people who claim to not be religious odd. The problem has always been people need to understand how much they are loved, and how much love dwells already within them and to start forgiving and loving.

But the agenda is actually often do nothing, ignore sin, do not look at righteousness and purity, and just rejoice in your own personal fantasies of wealth and success which God will give you because you are now His child.

If you are like a child, you just follow, because you love, you trust your Father.
But the burden that is put on believers is now, beware of being motivated by self or the flesh, and seek out those who are self "motivated", because they are the evil works. So these believers condemn us a pharisees and hypocrites, unbelievers laying the burden of law on the faith, and they are setting people free to do as their nature desires which is now perfect, but actually not, because as they will testify, they continually fall into sin and self condemnation.

I call this unfortunately double speak, and nothing to do with just learning how to love from the heart, and knowing you can trust our Lord. It is not difficult.

 

[PeterJens]

It's not good news of freedom in Christ, it's jj's warnings about disobedience.
The god of works-righteous-obedience is still the god of self-righteousness, no matter how you try to couch the language or act like you're fulfilling the Lord's commandments to behave.

If Gods love dwells within you richly it will be your hearts desire to follow and obey.

But so many testify this language is not something they understand or respond to.
That is why it is a walk of experience, relationship and obedience. In obeying you will be changed, transformed, become a new person.

Fundamentally some believers deny this by saying they are already changed and transformed, they just need to walk in it.
The fact they find this impossible suggests the first belief is not actually Gods way, and they are something different than they believe.

 

[Budman]

to be clear, I accept the true grace of God

If that were so, you would immediately stop attempting to earn justification.

 

[PeterJens]

If that were so, you would immediately stop attempting to earn justification.

You made me think of these words "Are 'you' saved or just your new spirit?"

This idea is the flesh, literally you body, sense of self, nature and position are eternally lost, and only your new spirit given in new birth is actually saved.

I believe in a real sense we are totally saved, our bodies to be changed and transformed eventually, but it is the whole that is redeemed and found acceptable. Many find this idea hard, because they condemn and hate themselves so much, why would God find them acceptable in Christ, unless ofcourse God is only actually looking at Christ and not His child in faith.

 

[gb9]

You made me think of these words "Are 'you' saved or just your new spirit?"

This idea is the flesh, literally you body, sense of self, nature and position are eternally lost, and only your new spirit given in new birth is actually saved.

I believe in a real sense we are totally saved, our bodies to be changed and transformed eventually, but it is the whole that is redeemed and found acceptable. Many find this idea hard, because they condemn and hate themselves so much, why would God find them acceptable in Christ, unless ofcourse God is only actually looking at Christ and not His child in faith.

well it really does not matter what you believe, it matters what the Bible says. not by works of righteousness we have done, but according to his mercy, HE SAVED US. Titus 3 look it sometimes, then come back and say how we have to work for our salvation.