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J
I'm okay with you being concerned with me, God isn't. ive tried to make clear that I answered this question 2 times earlier. even quoted a few of the scriptures you both presenred, but was told I was avoiding the question. the word actually has about 50 plus names for Jesus. the one I'm comfortable with calling Him agaoin "IF" its necessary to label whether He is God or Gods son. I will stay with His claims and teachings. the son has life, the son says only what the father tells Him, the world mist learn that I am in the father and the father is in me, the Father has entrusted all judgement to the son..ect...in the gospel of Jesus Christ, He claims to be Gods son. and also 2 times Gods voice says this is my son"
your concern for me, isn't necessary at all. I don't deny the scriptures you offered or pilgrim offered. I actually made reference earlier to a couple, also " the exact representation of the invisible God in bodily form" I amnswered these earlier. look back if you need to. the response was I was avoiding the question. why do you guys feel the need to trap me somehow? you all got the wrong impression of me. I don't think at all highly of myself, actually in the presence of Jesus, I consider myself Less than you, or pilgrim, or ben, or grace 777......in the gospel, I am nothing an empty broken, worthless vessel. but because I know that, God has made it plain to me.....I was empty and found water in the gospel. pure , fresh , clean water that I needed all my life. I am nothing, Bit Jesus is so much that i don't care what, or who i am. I really feel this way have for years now. i don't lead a normal life at all, pretty much insignifivcant oin the world. am nothing worthy or better, i am less. not wise, but i know where wisdom is.
so not to offend you or anything. my answer to the question presented. is Jesus is Gods son. God gave Jesus all authority as it is written in the gospel. but i am not an authority on any way, just a guy who Loves Jesus because He suffered and died to Love me. that's a label ill accept. but my answer and i am not ashamed or do i feel wrong or anything. Jesus is the son of God. there is scripture to support it. and also scripture to support someoine calling Him God.im not opposed to that, ill stay where my heart tells me to stay, I trust my heart in Christ. God bless you
Amazing and beautiful in it's simplicity and complexity. Thank you for showing more truth and courage in this one post than we've gotten from walls of text and scripture pasting and twisting over weeks. God bless you. 
Btw, many times Paul called it the gospel of Christ...
He also referred to it as the gospel of God. Hmmm.
Now I WONder...WHAT could he have MEANT by THAT?!
Btw, many times Paul called it the gospel of Christ...
He also referred to it as the gospel of God. Hmmm.
Now I WONder...WHAT could he have MEANT by THAT?!
I'm not denying the son or the father earlier I answered He was the word, gods exact reperesentation ect.....but was infoirmed I was being evasive lol. Jesus is My Lord, God is His father. God has guiven Him authority and equality. He was with and in God was part of God is how I read the 1 ch of John. The son is who He claimed to be, and also what Gods voice said 2 times. I think we misunderstand as a father and ason are in human existence. God is so immeasurable that His son is also immeasurable. I'm comfortable with Jesus the son, God the father, and the holy spirit of Jesus as the trinity. because in the gospel its established By the father and son. my own view of Jesus is more" He is all and in all and through all and by Him all things hold together." and He is creation and Life and the Like........
earlier I answered He was the word, gods exact reperesentation ect.....but was infoirmed I was being evasive lol. Jesus is My Lord, God is His father. God has guiven Him authority and equality. He was with and in God was part of God is how I read the 1 ch of John. The son is who He claimed to be, and also what Gods voice said 2 times. I think we misunderstand as a father and ason are in human existence. God is so immeasurable that His son is also immeasurable. I'm comfortable with Jesus the son, God the father, and the holy spirit of Jesus as the trinity. because in the gospel its established By the father and son. my own view of Jesus is more" He is all and in all and through all and by Him all things hold together." and He is creation and Life and the Like........
J
okay haha since your gonna push me lets see what the gospel reveals. what should the church believe about who Jesus is? Pretty clear popped into my head while u guys keopt this nonsense up trying to pin me in something but like usual, Jesus answers perfectly. ( before i even present this i allllready know, but some other person will get value from it that has eyes to see) sooooo
Matthew 16:16-17 "simon peter answered "You are the Christ, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD." ( okay what does JESUS say of this confession? v 17 " Jesus replied " Blessed are you simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, BUT BY MY FATHER IN HEAVEN."
So okay yeah jesus goes on to say on the rock of that confession " that He is the Christ the son of God" He will build His church.
so yeah i will go ahead and stick like glue to Jesus IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. and that is what the CORRECT view of Him is, that's who believers are told BY THE FATHER . the father reveal it, not man but God.
you two are here for the wrong reason with really childish attitudes. and what ive Just presented is clear to anyone.....
so heap the ignorance up, it is a BLESSING AND JOY TO RECEIVE INSULTS FOR THE GOSPELS SAKE !
Pushed into? You couldn't answer a simple question??? You call it pushed into? It was a simple yes or no that you chickened out of. You still haven't answered. We weren't asking Paul or Peter or what you think scripture says or what Jesus said about Himself, we were asking you---> Is Jesus God?
From 'the other two'?
More pompous arrogance
from another obedient worker.
From 'the other two'?
More pompous arrogance
from another obedient worker.
I have nothing to add to what Jesus affirmed was given Peter of the Father to confess of Jesus
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Jesus told him he was blessed in his confession and that that confession was given him of the Father so to deny Jesus in that would be to deny the Father and Son in rejecting that same confession.
Shows that is antichrist.
By passing the Christ, or being against professing him as the Christ, even denying him as the Son of God
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also
God that made Jesus both Lord and Christ and that is how we acknowledge His Son.
Thats all I really have to say on that.
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Jesus told him he was blessed in his confession and that that confession was given him of the Father so to deny Jesus in that would be to deny the Father and Son in rejecting that same confession.
Shows that is antichrist.
By passing the Christ, or being against professing him as the Christ, even denying him as the Son of God
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also
God that made Jesus both Lord and Christ and that is how we acknowledge His Son.
Thats all I really have to say on that.
J
its funny that you guys pushed and pushed and the answer came directly from the Gospel lol funny How I'm told I wont acknowledge clear scripture......i already Knew how ud respond, your here for the wrong reason. But Jesus is Gods son. that's what the father will reveal to a believer and that is the confession of the church. plain answer, but not sufficient to your motive.
Matthew 16:16-17 " simon eter answered you are the Christ, the SON of the living GOD. Jesus replied " blessed are you simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man But by MY FATHER IN HEAVEN."
you guys pushed and pushed. insults all the nonsense and ignorance. the whole time I'm discussing things with other people , and out of nowhere you try to make me say yes or no. you wanted your answer there it is.
The view of a believer is to see Him as Gods son, that is the foundation of the Church. i was actually trying to Just avoid the 2 of you and not engage in the childishness of you both. but insults are definitely a blessing so thank both of you for those and also now i have the correct scriptures to answer someone who actually wants to know that Question. you are both welcome back anytime, kinda good exercise really , bless you friend
Heres the doctrine, Jesus doctrine wasnt his but the Father's
John 7:16
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine,
but his that sent me.
John 7:17
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine,
whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
It was God who gave Jesus the words to speak (Duet 18:18 & John 12:49, John 17:8 )
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
John 7:16
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine,
but his that sent me.
John 7:17
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine,
whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
It was God who gave Jesus the words to speak (Duet 18:18 & John 12:49, John 17:8 )
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
B
I have has to give this answer some wore thought, I answered it before (I hope I was clear), but I didn't go far enough. sometimes on here we try and hold a conversation while the thread grows instantly, and by the time we press 'post quick reply' more answers have been given and a scan read of the posts to try and catch up does not do the conversation justice.
What I read was not what was written and I misunderstood, by scan reading, the sentiment behind them.
HeRoseFromTheDead I apologise for implying a 'separation of the ways' although these were my words, I took your words out of sync, and with my ability to rush forward and put foot in mouth I messed up, Forgive me please. It is definitely the phony grace I part ways with, not you.
There has been a lot of talk about OSAS, and I agree that God will never let the enemy come between us, the "depth and hight" quotation is known to all, and we can never earn our way to the Kingdom, but we do have to hold fast and not let go, this is the behaviour that guarantees the salvation we have already received, we can not earn it we have it already! And as such we must be faithful servants and wise virgins so when Our Lord returns we will be found faithful, keeping in the pure love shown to us by Jesus the Christ, and this is the behaviour; that we, in our inmost being love our Lord above and beyond ourselves as is His command.
What I read was not what was written and I misunderstood, by scan reading, the sentiment behind them.
HeRoseFromTheDead I apologise for implying a 'separation of the ways' although these were my words, I took your words out of sync, and with my ability to rush forward and put foot in mouth I messed up, Forgive me please. It is definitely the phony grace I part ways with, not you.
There has been a lot of talk about OSAS, and I agree that God will never let the enemy come between us, the "depth and hight" quotation is known to all, and we can never earn our way to the Kingdom, but we do have to hold fast and not let go, this is the behaviour that guarantees the salvation we have already received, we can not earn it we have it already! And as such we must be faithful servants and wise virgins so when Our Lord returns we will be found faithful, keeping in the pure love shown to us by Jesus the Christ, and this is the behaviour; that we, in our inmost being love our Lord above and beyond ourselves as is His command.
Hello Jason,
The verse is not referring to salvation as what is worked for, but What you have Worked for as in rewards for good works done in Christ. Since all other scriptures are clear in that we cannot earn salvation by good works, it should lead you in another direction to understand what is being spoken of. If we could earn our way into eternal life by our good works, then Jesus died for nothing. Salvation is obtained by recognizing and trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation. Trusting in anything else for salvation will leave a person standing before the Lord saying, "But Lord, Lord, didn't we ..."
And His commands are these: To believe in the One whom he sent, Jesus Christ and to love one another.
"Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”Jesus replied, “This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent.
The reason that you are getting so much flack is because scripture makes it very clear that we are saved by grace apart from works:
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."
The NLT version gives it a little bit more detail:
"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."
Below is an example give by Jesus of what will happen regarding those who trust in their own works for salvation:
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’ "
In the scripture above, once they find out that they are unable to enter into the kingdom of heaven, their very response demonstrates why they won't be able to enter in:
"did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?
In the example above and by their own admission, they will have been trusting in their own works instead of Christ's finished work on the cross.
Don't be one of the "Many."
The verse is not referring to salvation as what is worked for, but What you have Worked for as in rewards for good works done in Christ. Since all other scriptures are clear in that we cannot earn salvation by good works, it should lead you in another direction to understand what is being spoken of. If we could earn our way into eternal life by our good works, then Jesus died for nothing. Salvation is obtained by recognizing and trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation. Trusting in anything else for salvation will leave a person standing before the Lord saying, "But Lord, Lord, didn't we ..."
And His commands are these: To believe in the One whom he sent, Jesus Christ and to love one another.
"Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”Jesus replied, “This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent.
The reason that you are getting so much flack is because scripture makes it very clear that we are saved by grace apart from works:
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."
The NLT version gives it a little bit more detail:
"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."
Below is an example give by Jesus of what will happen regarding those who trust in their own works for salvation:
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’ "
In the scripture above, once they find out that they are unable to enter into the kingdom of heaven, their very response demonstrates why they won't be able to enter in:
"did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?
In the example above and by their own admission, they will have been trusting in their own works instead of Christ's finished work on the cross.
Don't be one of the "Many."
Good morning Jason....I already do read a chapter in the gospels as part of my daily reading. I love to watch our Lord reach out in grace to those that are down-trodden. I love to watch Him give the law to those that think they can relate to God by human achievement instead of relating to God on what Christ has already accomplished.
I love watching Him extend grace to the woman caught in adultery. How He reaches out and touched the leper before He heals him. Imagine how long the leper went without having anyone touch him?
Here is what I say about the words of our Lord.
Jesus was the greatest preacher of the law and the greatest preacher of grace.
For those people that are relying on what "they" do to establish their own righteousness - He gave them Moses 2.0
He elevated the law to a place where no one could do it. Like cut your hand off and pluck out your eye. Be perfect like the Father. If you even call someone a fool you have murdered them. If you lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Good luck with "obeying" these commands. Their whole purpose was to reveal our need for a Savior.
One of the purposes of the law was to increase sin ( Rom. 5:20 ) in us so that we will know we need a Savior. The law's purpose too lead us to Christ as Paul says in Galatians.
To those people who know they cannot "do" anything to create their own righteousness and needed a Savior - Jesus preached grace them to them. This is why crack addicts and prostitutes , thieves, etc understand grace and the self-righteous religious have a hard time with it. Especially "acceptance grace"
Jesus spoke wonderful words of life to all groups of people.
Jesus is brilliant at giving people exactly what they need. Consider the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11–32).
Some people love this story, others hate it. I’ve had people tell me, “I feel bad for the older brother. He worked so hard.” They say this because they are working hard. They are good and decent and can’t understand why Jesus would throw a party for prodigals and not for them. It troubles them that we are inside whooping it up while they’re outside working on their résumés.
The story is real. Every one of us is in it and everyone is invited to the party. Grace is for all. But you’re going to have trouble receiving it if you think of your heavenly Father as an employer. And that’s the whole point. You’re going to have to change your mind about God or you will never enjoy his love.
Words mean different things to different people. If you identify with the tax collector or the prodigal, the words of Jesus are packed with radical grace. You’ll read them with praise and thanksgiving and whoops of joy.
But if you identify with the Pharisee or the older brother, his words are extremely unsettling. They are serious words, not fun at all. Don't take someone else's medicine.
Yet if you allow them, the words of Jesus will change you. They will strip you of your religion and reveal your need for grace
