Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?
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Oh..I believe people that do not receive Christ's sacrifice for their sins will definitely be blotted out of the book of life.
Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world to take away the sin of the world. If people don't accept His sacrifice for sin - they will remain in their sin and it is going to be a frightful thing to fall into the hands of the Lord without being in Christ.
No, ISIT, you're misunderstanding Grace777x70's intent.
The intent is to rightly divide the Scriptures, as we're exhorted to do.
What Christ did at the Cross, with the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His current and perpetual work as our Perfect High Priest MATTERS.
Everything in Scripture SHOULD be filtered through, if you will, or viewed through that lens, if you prefer.
For instance, in the Old Covenant (before the Cross, but during Jesus' ministry, for He was born under the Law, yes?), the process went like this: sin, repent, sacrifice, sin, repent, sacrifice, rinse and repeat. That was if you did a sin that did not earn you the death penalty. In that case there was no rinse and repeat
.
In the New Covenant, IF you are in Christ, when you sin, you have a Perfect High Priest Who ever lives to intercede for you. No further sacrifice required; He was the Perfect, once-for-all sacrifice for all time. Christ's sacrifice was superior to the Old Covenant way and the New Covenant is superior to the Old in EVERY way. That does not preclude earthly consequences from kicking in, however. Sinning is dumb and destructive. Some sins can earn you jail time, break up your family, ruin your life.
That's not God's heart for you, and He doesn't want you to harm others (love does no harm to its neighbor, Rom. 13), so the NT is stuffed full of exhortations on how to live Godly and upright lives - TAUGHT BY GRACE (Tit. 2).
In Christ, God no longer holds your sins against you; He chooses to remember them no more. Though there are earthly consequences for sinning, there is no punishment or judgement eternally for the believer's sin - Jesus took that punishment on the Cross, remember?
If you are living in this world after the Cross and are in Christ, according to Romans 5, 2 Cor. 5, and Hebrews 10 (and other places), you are righteous and you are holy with the righteousness and holiness of Christ!
And that's the appropriate lens through which to read all other Scripture - through the lens of the Work of Christ, what that actually accomplished, and who we as believers are IN HIM.
Grace777x70 has consistently brought Scripture to back up what he believes. He can not be responsible with how you're hearing or receiving what he writes.
Likewise, I could say the same of what you wrote above, that you constantly accuse those of us who proclaim the Good News of the Gospel of Grace preach lasciviousness. We don't, not by a long shot. You say that we preach against obedience - we do not. We love to obey, walking by the Holy Spirit and bearing His Fruit!
The difference in what you preach and what we preach is this:
That's all the time I have to write - must go for an eye appointment!
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
The intent is to rightly divide the Scriptures, as we're exhorted to do.
What Christ did at the Cross, with the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His current and perpetual work as our Perfect High Priest MATTERS.
Everything in Scripture SHOULD be filtered through, if you will, or viewed through that lens, if you prefer.
For instance, in the Old Covenant (before the Cross, but during Jesus' ministry, for He was born under the Law, yes?), the process went like this: sin, repent, sacrifice, sin, repent, sacrifice, rinse and repeat. That was if you did a sin that did not earn you the death penalty. In that case there was no rinse and repeat
.In the New Covenant, IF you are in Christ, when you sin, you have a Perfect High Priest Who ever lives to intercede for you. No further sacrifice required; He was the Perfect, once-for-all sacrifice for all time. Christ's sacrifice was superior to the Old Covenant way and the New Covenant is superior to the Old in EVERY way. That does not preclude earthly consequences from kicking in, however. Sinning is dumb and destructive. Some sins can earn you jail time, break up your family, ruin your life.
That's not God's heart for you, and He doesn't want you to harm others (love does no harm to its neighbor, Rom. 13), so the NT is stuffed full of exhortations on how to live Godly and upright lives - TAUGHT BY GRACE (Tit. 2).
In Christ, God no longer holds your sins against you; He chooses to remember them no more. Though there are earthly consequences for sinning, there is no punishment or judgement eternally for the believer's sin - Jesus took that punishment on the Cross, remember?
If you are living in this world after the Cross and are in Christ, according to Romans 5, 2 Cor. 5, and Hebrews 10 (and other places), you are righteous and you are holy with the righteousness and holiness of Christ!
And that's the appropriate lens through which to read all other Scripture - through the lens of the Work of Christ, what that actually accomplished, and who we as believers are IN HIM.
You talk about others trying to slander and bring false accusations against you and the Hyper grace movement, but you are one of the worst ones who constantly tries to suggest that those who believe in an obedient walk of faith are preaching either "legalism" or "works Salvationism" or DIY "self righteousness" which is nothing more than slander and false accusations directed toward us. You judge others of what you yourself practice on a regular basis, but now you have been warned.
Likewise, I could say the same of what you wrote above, that you constantly accuse those of us who proclaim the Good News of the Gospel of Grace preach lasciviousness. We don't, not by a long shot. You say that we preach against obedience - we do not. We love to obey, walking by the Holy Spirit and bearing His Fruit!
The difference in what you preach and what we preach is this:
- We preach that Salvation (forgiveness, righteousness, and New Life) is a free gift for all who will believe in Christ, maintained by Christ, our Perfect High Priest, and stewarded over by our Heavenly Father Who began a good work in us and is faithful and will bring it to completion until the Day of Christ. He will NOT give up on us.
- You preach that Salvation is only in effect only as long as you are obedient (what this means varies between you and others here, but the connotation is conditional security). That God will reject those who are not obedient (again, obedient to what varies, depending on the poster). You preach that the Good News is only Good News before you're saved, but after you're saved, it's up to you to maintain proper behavior or the news is very, very bad.
That's all the time I have to write - must go for an eye appointment!
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
You had brought up the book with ISIT and I responded showing Jesus speaking of the same and even to the churches themselves. That went unansered, however, its all for the best. I need to be done with back and forths, and just post to threads and leave off of answering back and thats best done with ignore, I just need to mark where I have said so, but we dont talk so much and things get a bit twisty so I have decided to put you (along with EG) and now this new person on ignore also, and just stating so, that when I dont respond back that this is the reason (and that I have stated it openly).
To be fair (and in the biased spirit you presented the opposing side), this needs to be added to what you believe:
We preach that Salvation (forgiveness, righteousness, and New Life) is a free gift for all who will believe in Christ, maintained by Christ, our Perfect High Priest, and stewarded over by our Heavenly Father Who began a good work in us and is faithful and will bring it to completion until the Day of Christ. He will NOT give up on us even if (contrary to scripture) we live like the devil walking in the flesh our entire lives. Now that's good news!
We preach that Salvation (forgiveness, righteousness, and New Life) is a free gift for all who will believe in Christ, maintained by Christ, our Perfect High Priest, and stewarded over by our Heavenly Father Who began a good work in us and is faithful and will bring it to completion until the Day of Christ. He will NOT give up on us even if (contrary to scripture) we live like the devil walking in the flesh our entire lives. Now that's good news!
Again I ask, "have you perfectly obeyed the law of Christ AND is that what you are trusting in to receive eternal life? Your best efforts? Your performance?
John 12:46 - "I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness." - descriptive of believers.
John 12:48 - "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." - descriptive of unbelievers.
Galatians 6:2 - Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. The law of Christ in a broad sense means the entire body of ethical teaching that Jesus gave and endorsed (see Matthew 22:37-39; 1 Corinthians 9:21), but in a specific sense here it refers to the command to love one's neighbor as oneself (Matthew 22:39; John 13:34), which, if followed fully, will result in obeying the rest of God's moral law (Romans 13:8-10).
John 12:46 - "I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness." - descriptive of believers.
John 12:48 - "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." - descriptive of unbelievers.
Galatians 6:2 - Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. The law of Christ in a broad sense means the entire body of ethical teaching that Jesus gave and endorsed (see Matthew 22:37-39; 1 Corinthians 9:21), but in a specific sense here it refers to the command to love one's neighbor as oneself (Matthew 22:39; John 13:34), which, if followed fully, will result in obeying the rest of God's moral law (Romans 13:8-10).
Oh..I believe people that do not receive Christ's sacrifice for their sins will definitely be blotted out of the book of life.
Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world to take away the sin of the world. If people don't accept His sacrifice for sin - they will remain in their sin and it is going to be a frightful thing to fall into the hands of the Lord without being in Christ.
The purpose of bringing up Exodus 32:33 ( where is says that the person who sins God will blot out of the book ) was to show that taking scriptures by themselves without factoring in the finished work of Christ alone for salvation can cause a mixed-up understanding of scriptures.
It's ok if you feel you need to put me on ignore..no harm done..All is well! God bless you...
These are simple questions. Either you are trusting in Christ for salvation or else you are trusting in your performance for salvation. Your arguments are a distraction from answering my questions. In 1 Peter 3:15, we are told - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
If no one says "What?..are you saying people can just go and sin all we want now because of grace?" ..if no one says that - then you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ.
No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached. He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord. But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.
Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.
No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached. He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord. But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.
Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.
No, ISIT, you're misunderstanding Grace777x70's intent.
The intent is to rightly divide the Scriptures, as we're exhorted to do.
What Christ did at the Cross, with the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His current and perpetual work as our Perfect High Priest MATTERS.
Everything in Scripture SHOULD be filtered through, if you will, or viewed through that lens, if you prefer.
For instance, in the Old Covenant (before the Cross, but during Jesus' ministry, for He was born under the Law, yes?), the process went like this: sin, repent, sacrifice, sin, repent, sacrifice, rinse and repeat. That was if you did a sin that did not earn you the death penalty. In that case there was no rinse and repeat.
In the New Covenant, IF you are in Christ, when you sin, you have a Perfect High Priest Who ever lives to intercede for you. No further sacrifice required; He was the Perfect, once-for-all sacrifice for all time. Christ's sacrifice was superior to the Old Covenant way and the New Covenant is superior to the Old in EVERY way. That does not preclude earthly consequences from kicking in, however. Sinning is dumb and destructive. Some sins can earn you jail time, break up your family, ruin your life.
That's not God's heart for you, and He doesn't want you to harm others (love does no harm to its neighbor, Rom. 13), so the NT is stuffed full of exhortations on how to live Godly and upright lives - TAUGHT BY GRACE (Tit. 2).
In Christ, God no longer holds your sins against you; He chooses to remember them no more. Though there are earthly consequences for sinning, there is no punishment or judgement eternally for the believer's sin - Jesus took that punishment on the Cross, remember?
If you are living in this world after the Cross and are in Christ, according to Romans 5, 2 Cor. 5, and Hebrews 10 (and other places), you are righteous and you are holy with the righteousness and holiness of Christ!
And that's the appropriate lens through which to read all other Scripture - through the lens of the Work of Christ, what that actually accomplished, and who we as believers are IN HIM.
Grace777x70 has consistently brought Scripture to back up what he believes. He can not be responsible with how you're hearing or receiving what he writes.
Likewise, I could say the same of what you wrote above, that you constantly accuse those of us who proclaim the Good News of the Gospel of Grace preach lasciviousness. We don't, not by a long shot. You say that we preach against obedience - we do not. We love to obey, walking by the Holy Spirit and bearing His Fruit!
The difference in what you preach and what we preach is this:
That's all the time I have to write - must go for an eye appointment!
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
The intent is to rightly divide the Scriptures, as we're exhorted to do.
What Christ did at the Cross, with the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His current and perpetual work as our Perfect High Priest MATTERS.
Everything in Scripture SHOULD be filtered through, if you will, or viewed through that lens, if you prefer.
For instance, in the Old Covenant (before the Cross, but during Jesus' ministry, for He was born under the Law, yes?), the process went like this: sin, repent, sacrifice, sin, repent, sacrifice, rinse and repeat. That was if you did a sin that did not earn you the death penalty. In that case there was no rinse and repeat
.In the New Covenant, IF you are in Christ, when you sin, you have a Perfect High Priest Who ever lives to intercede for you. No further sacrifice required; He was the Perfect, once-for-all sacrifice for all time. Christ's sacrifice was superior to the Old Covenant way and the New Covenant is superior to the Old in EVERY way. That does not preclude earthly consequences from kicking in, however. Sinning is dumb and destructive. Some sins can earn you jail time, break up your family, ruin your life.
That's not God's heart for you, and He doesn't want you to harm others (love does no harm to its neighbor, Rom. 13), so the NT is stuffed full of exhortations on how to live Godly and upright lives - TAUGHT BY GRACE (Tit. 2).
In Christ, God no longer holds your sins against you; He chooses to remember them no more. Though there are earthly consequences for sinning, there is no punishment or judgement eternally for the believer's sin - Jesus took that punishment on the Cross, remember?
If you are living in this world after the Cross and are in Christ, according to Romans 5, 2 Cor. 5, and Hebrews 10 (and other places), you are righteous and you are holy with the righteousness and holiness of Christ!
And that's the appropriate lens through which to read all other Scripture - through the lens of the Work of Christ, what that actually accomplished, and who we as believers are IN HIM.
Grace777x70 has consistently brought Scripture to back up what he believes. He can not be responsible with how you're hearing or receiving what he writes.
Likewise, I could say the same of what you wrote above, that you constantly accuse those of us who proclaim the Good News of the Gospel of Grace preach lasciviousness. We don't, not by a long shot. You say that we preach against obedience - we do not. We love to obey, walking by the Holy Spirit and bearing His Fruit!
The difference in what you preach and what we preach is this:
- We preach that Salvation (forgiveness, righteousness, and New Life) is a free gift for all who will believe in Christ, maintained by Christ, our Perfect High Priest, and stewarded over by our Heavenly Father Who began a good work in us and is faithful and will bring it to completion until the Day of Christ. He will NOT give up on us.
- You preach that Salvation is only in effect only as long as you are obedient (what this means varies between you and others here, but the connotation is conditional security). That God will reject those who are not obedient (again, obedient to what varies, depending on the poster). You preach that the Good News is only Good News before you're saved, but after you're saved, it's up to you to maintain proper behavior or the news is very, very bad.
That's all the time I have to write - must go for an eye appointment!
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
You guys believe Jesus' sacrifice covers ALL FUTURE ongoing wilful sin, but this is totally false....
Hebrews 10:26-29King James Version (KJV)[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The son does remain forever in the house.
John 8:35-36 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.
Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".
If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.
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