Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Bowman]

Chapter 14 opens with the 144,000 (not a symbolic number) ...

The 144,000 represents spiritual Israel, as dictated by the text.

Not a literal number, but a symbolic, spiritual number for the ones taking The Son as God, as thus...


Rev 7.4 - 9

And I heard the number of those having been sealed: one hundred forty four thousands, having been sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: Out of the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Gad, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Naphtali, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Manasseh, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Issachar, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Zebulun, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Joseph, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand having been sealed. After these things I saw, and behold, a great crowd which no one was able to number them, out of every nation, even tribes and peoples and tongues, standing in front of the throne, and before the Lamb, having been clothed with white robes, and in their hands palm branches.


Observe that John first 'hears' their number....then He 'sees' their number....and their number was innumerable...

Not a literal 144,000.

Not Jews.

But representing ALL believers in the Triune God.


‘Hearing’ & then ‘seeing’ refers to the same group.







This same formula of first ‘hearing the number’ and then ‘seeing the number’ is also seen in Rev 9, as thus…


And the number of the armies of the cavalry was two myriads of myriads; and I heard their number. And so I saw in the vision the horses, and those sitting on them, having fire-colored breastplates, even dusky red and brimstone-like; and the heads of the horses as heads of lions; and out of their mouths come fire and smoke and brimstone.(Rev 9.16 -17)

 

[tourist]

Just as a guess,

what part of the mill. do you think that we are in?

First part, middle, end?

Not mil but nil. The millennium has yet to take place.

 

[Bowman]

Satan is NOT bound now....

Scripture rebukes you...over and over...


2 Thes 2.6 - 7

και νυν το κατεχον οιδατε εις το αποκαλυφθηναι αυτον εν τω αυτου καιρω το γαρ μυστηριον ηδη ενεργειται της ανομιας μονον ο κατεχων αρτι εως εκ μεσου γενηται

kai nyn to katechon iodate eis to apokalyphthēnai auton en tō heautou kairō to gar mystērion ēdē energeitai tēs anomias monon ho katechōn arti heōs ek mesou genētai

And you know that which is binding him for now, to be revealed in his appointed time. For The Hidden, The Lawless is already working, only he is bound at present, taken out of the way, until he comes out of the midst.

 

[Bowman]

For the literalist, is this what the key to the abyss might look like....?

 

[Bowman]

For the literalist, is this what Satan's chain might look like...?

 

[Bowman]

(Revelation 20:1-3) Satan will be loosed "for a short season" (this is NOT symbolic)......it means a literal short period of time.

Doesn't sound like a literal number to me....nor anyone else reading the plain text...

 

[Bowman]

Again for the literalist, we have the following...

 

[abcdef]

in your view, what happened in 1929? is it related to the vatican?

The Vatican is Caesar worship,

Man is god, worship the creation rather than the creator, Caesar is god, the Bishop of Rome (BoR) is the Holy Father, the poop, I misspelled it on purpose. I won't call him father.

This has been the teaching of Rome since the Caesars of the Roman empire.

It started again after the flood, at the tower of Babel, (worship the creation, sun worship etc.)

Since the fall of the Roman Empire, Caesar Worship did not have a "home", a capital, a national identity.

There was an earth beast (image) but the sea beast was dead, at least for 1500 yrs.

But in 1929, guess what? Caesar worship became a "nation" again. A home with a capital.

And by a "strange" coincidence, it occupies the same exact spot where it was over 2000 yrs ago.

This is the sea beast (national gov.), reuniting with the earth beast (religious gov.).

Rome crawls out of the pit, Rev 20:7-9.

We know that this is Rome because the dragon of Rev 20:2, has 7 heads and 10 horns, identified in Rev 12:3.

The dragon deceives Magog to surround restored Israel to Jerusalem, Rev 20:9.

Israel is surrounded now.

Iran and it's allies will attack soon.

The BoR will speak the words of deception,

Then the nations of Islam will attack Israel, and conquer Jerusalem.

Then the "rapture" (resurrection) and the fire from heaven.

 

[Dan_473]

The Vatican is Caesar worship,

Man is god, worship the creation rather than the creator, Caesar is god, the Bishop of Rome (BoR) is the Holy Father, the poop, I misspelled it on purpose. I won't call him father.

This has been the teaching of Rome since the Caesars of the Roman empire.

It started again after the flood, at the tower of Babel, (worship the creation, sun worship etc.)

Since the fall of the Roman Empire, Caesar Worship did not have a "home", a capital, a national identity.

There was an earth beast (image) but the sea beast was dead, at least for 1500 yrs.

But in 1929, guess what? Caesar worship became a "nation" again. A home with a capital.

And by a "strange" coincidence, it occupies the same exact spot where it was over 2000 yrs ago.

This is the sea beast (national gov.), reuniting with the earth beast (religious gov.).

Rome crawls out of the pit, Rev 20:7-9.

We know that this is Rome because the dragon of Rev 20:2, has 7 heads and 10 horns, identified in Rev 12:3.

The dragon deceives Magog to surround restored Israel to Jerusalem, Rev 20:9.

Israel is surrounded now.

Iran and it's allies will attack soon.

The BoR will speak the words of deception,

Then the nations of Islam will attack Israel, and conquer Jerusalem.

Then the "rapture" (resurrection) and the fire from heaven.

you certainly have a lot of interesting ideas. Definitely food for thought.

 

[Dan_473]

James says,
"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceful, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits."

I think the wise posts are written by those who follow that pattern.

 

[Ahwatukee]

you certainly have a lot of interesting ideas. Definitely food for thought.

Ideas being the key word here, not scripture.

 

[abcdef]

Ideas being the key word here, not scripture.

Brother Ahwatukee,

It all depends on the timeline and, sigh, the symbolism.

Brother John

 

[abcdef]

Ideas being the key word here, not scripture.

Brother Ahwatukee,

The beast that comes out of the abyss at the 5th trumpet in Rev 9:1-11,

kills the 2 witnesses in Rev 11:7.

But who is the angel of the abyss? Rev 9:11.

He gets the key and opens the abyss to release the beast, Rev 9:1-2 (Renewed Rome in case you didn't know, 1929)

In Rev 20:7, it shows the same event.

The abyss is opened and the dragon v 2, with 7 hills, oops, I meant 7 heads and 10 horns etc, comes out.

He deceives Magog, you know who they are right?

Just look at the middle east today, got any guesses?

It's not like they are surrounding Israel or anything.

I mean, they haven't said any thing bad about Israel,

Like they're going to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, or anything like that, have they?

I'm sure that the Iranians are just joking about destroying Israel.

You don't think that there are 200 million people in that region who want, and are working to destroy Israel?

You and I may live to see the Iranian army and their allies standing in Jerusalem.

You see Rev as 7 years sometime in the future, but you don't realize that these endtime events are unfolding before your eyes.

This is it.

Jesus will appear after Jerusalem falls.

I know that you don't believe me now,

but it's important that you know these things ahead of time.

So when they begin to happen,

you will understand.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello John,

But who is the angel of the abyss? Rev 9:11.

He gets the key and opens the abyss to release the beast, Rev 9:1-2 (Renewed Rome in case you didn't know, 1929)

There are two angels mentioned in the Rev.9:1-11:

1. The angel who falls from heaven having to the key to the Abyss, which he opens and .....

2. The angel in the Abyss, whose name is destroyer who is currently restricted in the Abyss. He is the king of those demonic beings that are let out to torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of a scorpion. And yes, he is that beast who once was, now is not and yet will come up out the Abyss. He is that eight king, the one who receives the mortal wound and survives.

The beast that comes up out of the Abyss is not renewed Rome, but a literal fallen angel who after he comes up out of the Abyss will kill the two witnesses and take control of the antichrist. He will be the one who will have the abomination set up in the temple and will proclaim himself to be God or anything that is called God. He is not symbolic representing "renewed Rome."

In Rev 20:7, it shows the same event.

The abyss is opened and the dragon v 2, with 7 hills, oops, I meant 7 heads and 10 horns etc, comes out.

Make sure not to confuse the beast with Satan, as they are two individual fallen angels. Also, when the Abyss is opened at the 5th trumpet, it remains open until Jesus returns to end the age. At that time the beast and the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire, while Satan will be thrown into the Abyss, where it will be locked back up for a thousand years.

He deceives Magog, you know who they are right?

Just look at the middle east today, got any guesses?

It's not like they are surrounding Israel or anything.

I mean, they haven't said any thing bad about Israel,

Like they're going to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, or anything like that, have they?

Well actually Gog and Magog are going to try to wipe Jerusalem and its inhabitants off the earth. For the scripture states that they march across the earth and surround the camp of God's people, the city that he loves (Jerusalem) and God destroys them with fire out of heaven. So, it is Gog and Magog who are wiped off the face of the earth and this after a thousand years of peace with Christ ruling.

* You are here

* The church is still in the process of being built

* Once the church is completed, Jesus will appear and resurrect the dead and change the living and catch us up

* The first seal will be opened and the antichrist will make a seven year covenant with Israel

* Israel will build her long awaited temple and begin performing sacrifices and offerings

* 3 1/2 years after the antichrist makes his seven year covenant, he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings and will set up the abomination that causes the desolation of Jerusalem and Judea.

* The woman/Israel will flee out into the wilderness where God will care for her during that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns

* Christ returns at the end of the seven year period and has the beast and the false prophet thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20)

* He then has Satan thrown into the Abyss during Christ's thousand year reign (Rev.20:1-3)

* The great tribulation saints who were killed are resurrected (Rev.20:4-6)

* Christ's thousand year reign takes place ..................................................

* At the end of the thousand years Satan is released and gathers Gog and Magog whom God destroys with fire

* Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown a thousand years earlier (Rev.20:10)

* The unrighteous dead are resurrected and are judged at the great white throne judgment (Rev.20:11-15)

* This current heaven and earth depart from God's presence (Rev.20:11, 21:1)

* New heaven, new earth, New Jerusalem (Rev.21)

* Eternity ...............................................................


We now return you to your regularly scheduled program

 

[garee]

Hi Ahwatukeee, thanks for the reply

Dude, you make no sense whatsoever! You don't even pay attention to what I wrote. You can't even comprehend that the parables where spoken to that generation of Israel, which the scripture makes very clear.

With all due respect due brother, I have been paying attention to the best of my ability. Perhaps I am slower than you, but today I hold to what I did offer in regard to the use of parables.

I chose to use what I consider one of the interpretation prescriptions that I believe is applied to all parables.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

We simply have a different interpretation bias. You could say like fingerprints .Some patterns seem close but when looked at there are differences. Just as the scripture inform us there must be differences of opinion called heresies amongst us.

The scripture is made of God’s interpretation to us, and not our own private interpretations, as personal commentaries of what we believe God is trying to teach us. In the end as His interpretation teaches us we abide in Him . The idea that we do need an man to teach us simply offends God. It’s the motive of operation of the antichrist.( Satan)

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2Pe 1:20

I just might not agree with some of the things that come up with those who look to the literal words in parables, because as it seems they are not interested in the spiritual meaning of parables. But without parables Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God spoke not to the multitude. The multitude is everyone that hears the word of God, regardless of the time period.

There are parables in every book, (without parable Christ spoke not) .They are used to announce the gospel beforehand in respect to the suffering of Christ.

The first parable, I believe is found in the opening statements; “And God rested on the Sabbath”, as the Sabbath we rest in because of His finished work. It provided our salvation.

He makes that clear by using two different examples of the same Sabbath salvation rest we rest in. First using Creation in respect to the Lamb of God slain from that foundation when he was working and then using the different rendering, from Egypt to typify the same rest we do have in Christ. Again two rendering, as two witnesses that both speak of the same salvation as the eternal rest we do have in Christ.

If a person ignores the spiritual meaning they simply miss the good news .They do not miss salvation just the gospel that announces the good news beforehand.

Why fear even looking into it rather than as it seems throw out the baby with the bath water?

“Forth commandment” Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

“Forth commandment” Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

The word multitude as “them” already has a meaning assigned to it. Do you agree with the Strong Lexicon .Does it seem to reflect he was speaking to what you called the generation of Isreal ?

Strong's Lexicon...from a derivative of 2192 (meaning a vehicle); TDNT - 5:582,750; n m
AV - people 82, multitude 79, press 5, company 7, number of people 1, number 1; 1751) a crowd 1a) a casual collection of people 1a1) a multitude of men who have flocked together in some place 1a2) a throng 1b) a multitude 1b1) the common people, as opposed to the rulers and leading men 1b2) with contempt: the ignorant multitude, the populace 1c) a multitude 1c1) the multitudes, seems to denote troops of people gathered together without order

The "them" in the scripture that Jesus is speaking in parables to, is that generation of Israel ONLY!

I don’t think there is any such thing as the generation of Israel .Scripture speaks of two generations. The generation of Adam as in all die that iare not found in the “generation of Christ”. the bride of Christ, the church .

I offered my explanation of the disciples, the “them” that you first said it was Christ was speaking to and now you are saying he was speaking to the national unconverted Israel that you call the generation of Israel ?

The scripture makes clear, that information was given to the disciples and all believers to understand some did not because they did not mix faith in what they did hear.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the “works were finished from the foundation of the world”. Heb 4:2

You're just speaking spiritual fluff and not comprehending the literal meaning of scripture!

Not all of the disciples "mixed faith" (2Co 4:18 ) in what they did hear. They misunderstood the spiritual meaning of the parable drink blood.

What does it mean to you, to drink blood since to drink the literal blood of a sacrifice is an abomination?

Did you read the following?

"He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

Yes the spiriutl understaning of the parables (all of them) was given to those who did mix the faith of Christ which comes from hearing God. Not those disciples who did not mix faith. They walked away in unbelief (no faith) to show they did not have the spiritual understanding.

Stop spiritualizing things, it only distorts the word of God. And please stop misapplying scripture to other scriptures that are unrelated.

I would appreciate if you would show me how scripture is not related to other scriptures?

Start looking to the spiritual meaning. It can I believe enrich like honey the faith of God that comes from hearing His interpretation to us. Just don’t eat too much .

 

[Bowman]

2. The angel in the Abyss, whose name is destroyer who is currently restricted in the Abyss. He is the king of those demonic beings that are let out to torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of a scorpion. And yes, he is that beast who once was, now is not and yet will come up out the Abyss. He is that eight king, the one who receives the mortal wound and survives.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....

Just come out and confess that this passage refers to Satan!

Your blindness is absolutely astounding!

 

[RobbyEarl]

Wrong Bowman it is the same fallen angel that helped Alexander the great and is bound and will be set free. I know go ahead and repute it have fun with it, but a biblical scholar would know better. Jesus loves you man and your knowledge will not change that, trust in Him and His work at the Cross.

 

[Ahwatukee]

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Hello garee,

The scripture above does not mean that we are to interpret the information of Revelation as spiritual, for Paul is speaking about the temporary troubles in the flesh and to keep our eyes on what is unseen, which is our eternal glory. You are simply misapplying scripture by taking it out of context. All of the prophesies regarding Christ were fulfilled in the literal sense and therefore the prophesies to come will also be fulfilled literally and should not be interpreted spiritually.

I just might not agree with some of the things that come up with those who look to the literal words in parables, because as it seems they are not interested in the spiritual meaning of parables. But without parables Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God spoke not to the multitude. The multitude is everyone that hears the word of God, regardless of the time period.

The multitude is not everyone. You are ignoring the scripture regarding why Jesus taught in parables and who he was speaking them to, as can be seen in the scripture below:

"Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given."

In the scripture above "To you" would be referring to the disciples and all believers and "to them" would be referring to that generation Israel that he was speaking to. What we read in the word of God is meant for us to believe. If the literal sense make good sense, then don't seek a symbolic or spiritual sense. By interpreting what is meant to be literal as spiritual or symbolic, you are just distorting the scripture.

The word multitude as “them” already has a meaning assigned to it. Do you agree with the Strong Lexicon .Does it seem to reflect he was speaking to what you called the generation of Isreal ?

You conveniently left out the part of the verse that states that the knowledge of the kingdom of God was given to the disciples and therefore all believers. Not only that, but the other words in the context support who "them" is, which was the crowds that he was speaking to of the generation and not to the church.

As long as you continue to ignore the plain text of scripture by forcing a spiritual meaning to it, you will just continue to distort the word of God.

 

[Bowman]

Wrong Bowman it is the same fallen angel that helped Alexander the great and is bound and will be set free. I know go ahead and repute it have fun with it, but a biblical scholar would know better. Jesus loves you man and your knowledge will not change that, trust in Him and His work at the Cross.

Thats pretty jacked.

How many fallen angels, with the same exact qualities as Satan, do you think are presently bound?!

 

[Bowman]

Just curious...

All of you literalists with a hyper-fixation of assigning hard numbers to the end-times.....are you also YEC's, by chance?

It would seem that you are....and are wasting your lives doing so...