What Paul taught other than romans 8:1 lol

[John146]

He definitely was a believer, in 2 Corinthians paul says to forgive Him and show Him Love. what do you make of these scriptures since you didn't post the others

Ephesians 5 :3-7 " But among you there must not be even a HINT of sexual immorality, or of ANY KIND of impurity or of Greed because these are improper for Gods HOLY people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking wich are out of place. FOR THIS YOU CAN BE SURE : No immoral, impure or GREEDY person- such a man is an idolater, has ANY INHERITANCE in the Kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for BECAUSE OF SUCH THINGS THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. therefore do not be partners with them."

would you say that's pretty clear? being written to the Church at Ephesus? pretty strong language from the apostle paul who is known for only teaching grace wouldn't you admit? also very clear in His language I would personally observe there. but maybe those verses aren't meant for Christians? or maybe he isn't referring to what people do somehow? or maybe inheriting Gods Kingdom has nothing to do with salvation? I'm not sure, enlighten me here. tell me how this is unclear and I'm just misinterpreting these things and paul was really saying "don't worry about your actions, your all saved, spread that as the gospel" I must be just trying to cause trouble....funny I figured people might think it important but that's just my own view of it I guess

"Hath any inheritance" Does that really sound like salvation to you? It sounds like....inheritance to me, rewards. It says any inheritance IN the kingdom of God.

You go from one extreme to the other. NO ONE on this board is stating that obedience is not important or has any bearing on the Christian. It does. It has HUGE importance, in this life and in eternity. But my justification comes from the faith of Jesus Christ and not how I live out my individual faith. Not to be ugly, but you're Bible doesn't even have that in it. You spoke negatively about the KJV earlier and yet it's the only Bible that gets that right. That my friend is HUGE!

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

We can inherit now in this life things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness.

 

[followjesus]

People can read posts like this and say - "see they are saying it's ok to go and sin all you want". ( of course no one is saying that at all and never is Paul ) Paul himself said all these things in his letters and he always talked about the identity of the people in Christ before he corrected their behavior.

Paul had to defend himself in 4x times alone in the book of Romans because he was being accused by fellow believers of saying that it is ok to go and sin because of the radical grace he was teaching.

When you preach the gospel and no one says to you " What?..are you saying we can jus go and sin now all we want? " If we do not get that kind of a response then we have not preached the gospel of the grace of Christ as Paul did.

The book of Ephesians shows us the Christian life. First Paul talks about our identity in Christ and we are seated with Him...resting as He is. 2nd part is talking about how this life from Christ should look like when it is being manifested in our lives. It is our walking in Him.

The last part of Ephesians is talking about how we stand with the armor of God on us..praying..which shows complete dependence on Christ in us for our standing against the storms of life and all the fiery darts of the enemy.

How we stand is determined how well we walk and how well we walk is determined how well we understand our identity in Christ which is us sitting with Christ. It all starts with the sitting in Christ and resting in His completed work first.

We can try to "force" people to walk right before they know how to sit and rest in Christ first. This does not work. Resting in Christ comes first then we walk and then we stand in Him.

yeah encouragements good lol, it doesn't erase obedience or make it somehow evil to mention. there is a place for encouragement. listen carefully to this : who you are in Christ is Jesus. He is the example, to look at Jesus is to look at who you are supposed to be. that's why were known as the body of Christ. not the body of this guy or that Guy. that's why the gospels are all important. to learn Jesus ways is to see " who you are in Christ" to obey what He is saying is who you are in Christ. a follower of Gods Son. that's who every Christian is in Christ. there is no valid reason to omit the warnings God purposely caused to be written throughout His word. there is no justification for that. that is the issue with the doctrine you follow. you continually say your not saying to not obey, ill give you that, what you do is minimize anything that doesn't fall in line with grace as it is spreading currently. Bruce listen to the spirit in you , make a change to the gospel of joseph prince and include the gospel of Jesus Christ. you are a good encourager, the issue is trying to teach any doctrine that necessitates ommital of what is plainly written. or making grace more important its all about Jesus. He is Grace and obedience, truth, righteousness ect.

there is a good word in you I see it, always have. I also believe in my heart even as ardent of a supporter of the gog you are, you have seen the errors in it. change that part, take the truth you've seen from people on this site and add that into the grace message God has placed in you. never omit what is there, that's where fallacy begins man. I'm nothing and no one, no authority, want nothing from anyone. But I know in you there is something that sees the point of obedience, confession, repentance ect. rest on Jesus work, that's good and right. take that and add the rest of what is true and right. you could very well be a good leader in the church, but at some point you need to let go of what doesn't jive with the rest.

take the good and add the good and have your own encouraging Grace filled message that also encourages obedience to Jesus bro. I see it in you, I know even as much as you stick to it, I know in you you see the points that don't match. pray and consider friend, perfect the gospel of grace, and btw, you should definitely add the name of Jesus to that. that's the name Christ is the title, Jesus is the name. god bless you man. I'm really hoping this clash can end I think you have a lot of potential in Gods things, have a great heart. I just honestly also see the thing that's stifling you. trust the truth and take the good and make it your own, study paul for yourself focus on what he says about things other than just grace alone and God will give you more to add to the lacking gospel of grace, alrighty man good wishes to you, Gods design works, doesn't need adjustment.,

 

[followjesus]

"Hath any inheritance" Does that really sound like salvation to you? It sounds like....inheritance to me, rewards. It says any inheritance IN the kingdom of God.

You go from one extreme to the other. NO ONE on this board is stating that obedience is not important or has any bearing on the Christian. It does. It has HUGE importance, in this life and in eternity. But my justification comes from the faith of Jesus Christ and not how I live out my individual faith. Not to be ugly, but you're Bible doesn't even have that in it. You spoke negatively about the KJV earlier and yet it's the only Bible that gets that right. That my friend is HUGE!

lol yeah I did not expect anything less than that reponse, I see no advance between us so lets quit debating and move on to other posts. you to the grace alone threads, which I stay off of, and ill stick to the others in the hope of peace. Have a good remainder of your weekend

 

[Grace777x70]

Obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules, but a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.

 

[miknik5]

Shall I sell everything I have and give it to the poor?

Explain?
Even the "Rich young man" who was looking to justify himself went away still "poor"...
If we sold everything we had and still neglected the BETTER PART and did not come to HIM to be washed, we are still just that..very, very poor...

 

[followjesus]

Obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules, but a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.

I'm good on what I share with people, I knew who I was in Christ 15 years ago when I saw Jesus Christ. I guess we oughta part ways and keep peace huh? I think it best. peace to ya

 

[followjesus]

Explain?
Even the "Rich young man" who was looking to justify himself went away still "poor"...
If we sold everything we had and still neglected the BETTER PART and did not come to HIM to be washed, we are still just that..very, very poor...

The rich young mans money meant more to Him than Jesus is the lesson there. He wasn't willing to give up His god to serve and follow the Son of God. anything that we aren't willing to give up for Christ is what we need to rid ourselves of, money, lust, pride, technology, friends ect..... whatever rules a heart, is sitting in the seat of Christ and is worth losing because His presence is better by a billion times.

 

[peacenik]

The rich young mans money meant more to Him than Jesus is the lesson there. He wasn't willing to give up His god to serve and follow the Son of God. anything that we aren't willing to give up for Christ is what we need to rid ourselves of, money, lust, pride, technology, friends ect..... whatever rules a heart, is sitting in the seat of Christ and is worth losing because His presence is better by a billion times.

Actually 100 times per Matt 19:29. Still, the rich young man would have been financially enriched by 100 fold. Too bad he didn't stay to listen to Jesus's instructions.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have never heard anyone say "Go out and sin all you want" and do not "obey Jesus" and I have listened to over a thousand different messages from various teachers of the grace of Christ

People do get stuck in various things that are destructive but the real Christian does not want to be in that. They want to walk free from those things - not live in them happily.

IMO This is why we need to be preaching grace as only the grace of Christ has the power to change a person from the inside out. We can temporarily change ourselves outwardly by our own self-effort and human will but usually that does not last.

As we see Christ and keep our eyes on Him and in His finished work for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to manifest our true nature in our new creations in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness. We need to participate in this process and desire to live by the spirit within.

The true Christian that is living in continuous sin is the most miserable person on the planet. ( there are believers that go to church every week and read their bibles and pray all the time and they can be in this category as well as the person out shooting heroin in their arms )

He is living against his true nature on the inside and is constantly trying to cover up this miserableness. This describes those that deliberately refuse to even desire to walk in who they are in Christ and perhaps in some cases they are not really "in Christ" at all.

Perhaps they are in fact "in Christ" but have never really heard the gospel of the grace of Christ and thus live defeated by various things? I'll let the angels at the end of the ages separate the tares from the wheat.

 

[followjesus]

"Hath any inheritance" Does that really sound like salvation to you? It sounds like....inheritance to me, rewards. It says any inheritance IN the kingdom of God.

You go from one extreme to the other. NO ONE on this board is stating that obedience is not important or has any bearing on the Christian. It does. It has HUGE importance, in this life and in eternity. But my justification comes from the faith of Jesus Christ and not how I live out my individual faith. Not to be ugly, but you're Bible doesn't even have that in it. You spoke negatively about the KJV earlier and yet it's the only Bible that gets that right. That my friend is HUGE!

so ive given ephesians, galatians, romans...how bout 1 thessalonians 4:3-8 ?

" it is Gods WILL that you be sanctified ; that you avoid sexual immorality, that EACH of you should learn how to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen who do not know God. and in this matter no one should wrong His brother or take advantage of him. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS AS WE HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU AND WARNED YOU. for God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, whoever rejects this INSTRUCTION does not reject men, but God, who gives you His HOLY SPIRIT."

all these writings are pauls writings. warnings clear warnings. along with the greatest commandment Love God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength " that's a pretty full commitment to God id say. last one ill post for you.

 

[followjesus]

I have never heard anyone say "Go out and sin all you want" and do not "obey Jesus" and I have listened to over a thousand different messages from various teachers of the grace of Christ

People do get stuck in various things that are destructive but the real Christian does not want to be in that. They want to walk free from those things - not live in them happily.

IMO This is why we need to be preaching grace as only the grace of Christ has the power to change a person from the inside out. We can temporarily change ourselves outwardly by our own self-effort and human will but usually that does not last.

As we see Christ and keep our eyes on Him and in His finished work for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to manifest our true nature in our new creations in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness. We need to participate in this process and desire to live by the spirit within.

The true Christian that is living in continuous sin is the most miserable person on the planet. ( there are believers that go to church every week and read their bibles and pray all the time and they can be in this category as well as the person out shooting heroin in their arms )

He is living against his true nature on the inside and is constantly trying to cover up this miserableness. This describes those that deliberately refuse to even desire to walk in who they are in Christ and perhaps in some cases they are not really "in Christ" at all.

Perhaps they are in fact "in Christ" but have never really heard the gospel of the grace of Christ and thus live defeated by various things? I'll let the angels at the end of the ages separate the tares from the wheat.

sure, have a good one bruce, peace to you

 

[miknik5]

The rich young mans money meant more to Him than Jesus is the lesson there. He wasn't willing to give up His god to serve and follow the Son of God. anything that we aren't willing to give up for Christ is what we need to rid ourselves of, money, lust, pride, technology, friends ect..... whatever rules a heart, is sitting in the seat of Christ and is worth losing because His presence is better by a billion times.

Why did he call HIM "GOOD" then given that he had done everything according to the Law, why did he need this "GOOD TEACHER" to tell him anything "more" that he should do?

He was willing to call HIM 'GOOD TEACHER" but when that "GOOD TEACHER" told him what he should do and then come and follow HIM...it really wasn't what he wanted to hear.

 

[Grace777x70]

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

 

[followjesus]

Why did he call HIM "GOOD" then given that he had done everything according to the Law, why did he need this "GOOD TEACHER" to tell him anything "more" that he should do?

He was willing to call HIM 'GOOD TEACHER" but when that "GOOD TEACHER" told him what he should do and then come and follow HIM...it really wasn't what he wanted to hear.

I suppose He saw the goodness in Jesus shining above all the others. I think if I were him I would have seen the same thing in Jesus. He was goodness, I think all He did for the people the miracles ect. kind of didn't allow people to not see Him as good, the rich young man had a good heart, it was simply devoted to money. that's why jesus said later " how hard is it for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven..." the more money we make many of us let it fill our minds and hearts, the more good things we have, fills our longings for Gods things. just my opinion tho.

yeah he definitely didn't want to hear he had to give away his money. Just my opinion tho, I think if the guys heart had been full of lust, He would have said repent of the lust and follow me. with Jesus, its about His place in our heart, His place in our life. His place on the throne within us, Hes the Lord, that's His place in our lives, King Jesus, commander of Gods army, ruler of the Kingdom. so if I have my heart full of money and spend my time and effort looking to serve that, its an idol. greed is idolatry. says it several times in scripture.

idols are anything that are more to us than Jesus. I used to examine myself for what I would hesitate to forsake for Him, found idols in many forms, cleaned them out n smashed them, and ive never been happier or more fulfilled. Jesus is worth whatever demand He makes in my humble opinion

 

[followjesus]

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

okay buddy have a good sunday evening

 

[followjesus]

if a person is doing their best to be obedient do they need to keep reading both or continue to try and be obedient and if they astray is that the time to review the repentance parts.

If I'm not mistaking on that shore when many people told Paul not to detour from the path that it wouldn't be wise but what did Paul wanted to try and do but to once more try and talk to the Pharisees and what happened.

not sure I follow you man. I think once a person accepts that God is saying obey me, the person is set on a path that will lead to eternal life. when someone says obey. they aren't necessarily saying be perfect in every detail of obedience. obedience is the heart, it comes as all things do by hearing and accepting the word that says to obey. we hear of Jesus, we accept the word and believe, hear of repentance accept and believe, hear of obedience accept and believe. the word we accept or reject is life, or death. maybe avoiding any scripture that doesn't appeal is the way for others, to me its accept what is there, believe it and set my heart to do what God is saying. that's just me though. I know that each person will stand before Jesus one day and it will be between Jesus and that person.

I honestly don't feel as if I'm doing someone harm by sharing the fact that paul also taught repentance and obedience. Fact is paul is misrepresented today in the masses as if He didn't also teach these things. I'm nothing, no one of account, there is nothing worthy or valuable of me, yet if I see something clearly in Gods word, I'm compelled to share that not only on forums like this but in church, in life. that's me though, no one else needs to follow me, infact following me wouldn't be wise, Jesus is the one to follow. I'm just a guy sharing something of worth to someone else somewhere.....

God bless and peace to you. sorry just saw this.

 

[followjesus]

I actually read most of these comments who is "judging anyone else? I sure saw not a single comment accusing, or judging anyone else. I think often scriptures make people feel judged and whoever presents the scripture then is the bad guy because no one wants to see or hear about repentance, changing our behavior ect. because man doesn't like it, does that justify omission of Gods word? there is a movement for a new bible that takes all the negative stuff out, a lot of folks may want to look into that one when it happens. anything saying man is sinful and needs to change, wont be in there. homosexual activity omitted, not a sin anymore when this new "bible" makes its way to the presses. things like obedience, repentance will be presented as an option.


But to your point, you are right Judgement belongs to Jesus, cant really see anyone saying different.

 

[followjesus]

ooh! ooh! i'll inform you!

you can multi-quote several posts at the same time. i don't know what the limit is. for simplicity, this is how you would do two of them.

first, on the first post you want to quote, hit this button

View attachment 152019

((do this same thing for as many additional posts))

then, on the last post you want to quote, hit this button

View attachment 152020

notice that there's a check mark on the first button -- that's what the additional posts should have, because you clicked 'multi-quote' on them. it won't make any difference on the last post you quote whether it's checked or not.

lastly, you'll probably want to use the "go advanced" button instead of using "quick reply"

View attachment 152023

this lets you preview what your post will look like, so you can make sure you got the right quotes, and can edit out whichever parts of them you didn't nec. want to reference, etc. from the advanced posting screen, you can use the preview button as many times as you want before submitting the post.

View attachment 152025

plus, the advanced menu lets you do other things like
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[TR]
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[TD]edit[/TD]
[TD]tables . .[/TD]
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insert lines . .
[HR][/HR]

indent text ..

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and [SUB]other [/SUB]cool [SUP]stuff.[/SUP]

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cheers!



((post likes to make helpful posts))

hahaha nice, funny AND informative lol ( though I would never use a previous quote against another person myself) I see it happen a lot ant actually end up looking at the place it came from and about 85 percent of the time it is very out of context and always escalates things.... very instructive and gave a giggle haha good stuff

 

[followjesus]

Your comment has nothing to do with mine which was pointing out that the spirit of a saved man cannot sin because he is made one with the Spirit of God.

so can I ask you a simple question ? if the man who confesses Jesus and receives the spirit, if that person is cheating on His wife, lying on a daily basis, and stealing from His work. is he commiting sin? or is His behavior blotted out and He is one with God even though hes in the act of adultery, lying, and stealing? is God one with a person In those kind of activities? just because they believe Jesus died for them?