Have the New Testament Charismatic gifts ceased?

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It's still all about you isn't it? If tongues are a gift of the Holy Spirit and it is the Holy Spirit that gives them severally as He willeth then there is no possible way to resist the gifts.

You do not want to understand the scripture where it says we look through the glass darkly but then we will see face to face. This is talking of how the OT which they and was shadowy and the NT which was not yet fully given would make it so we could see as God wants us to see the mysteries of the faith and purpose of Gods will.

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
In 1 Corinthians 12, it is referred to as part of the body of Christ, and it also states that not all will speak with tongues.
vs. 27-31
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

In my opinion, this part of the scripture explains that not everyone is given the same gifts. I don't know what part of the body of Christ it may be, but let's just say it is the foot of the body. If you are the hand in the body, and it is the foot would you wish to cut it off just because you are not the foot. I would hope not because we need the body to be whole in order for it to accomplish what is needed.
 
show me a man today who has the gifts that the Apostle had, to heal ALL that came to them

Then perhaps they can heal my wife?

Hi brother in Christ,

We can offer are prayers, a condolence as a way of suffering with you. But only God can heal.

The apostles (sent ones) do not contain the gift to heal .God does not heal with human hands as if needed something from the clay he is forming Christ in.

Like all believers as prophets, apostles, (sent ones). In the end of the matter we have the treasure of His authority, as Christ in these earthen(clay) bodies of death. But the authority/power is not of us any more than when he put His word on Balaam’s’ donkey mouth and restrained the madness of that false prophet. .

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

It’s the error that Catholic make with their idea of apostolic succession of men. They in effect assign them as the authority that performs the miracle that rises above the true authority the word of God.... making it to no effect so that they can keep the oral tradition of their fathers. And puff up their fathers above the fathers of any other denomination. The parable below becomes useless in their hand.

1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men "above that which is written", that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

We can see that kind of upside down faith that comes be having the faith that comes from hearing God rather in respect to measuring their own kind according to the fathers that they call the faith of the fathers. it ends up as blasphemy ,attributing the works of God to men .Therefore making gods in the likeness of men that they do have before our living God.

In doing so violate the first commandment. We are not to have the unseen faith of Christ in respect to that seen .it was the cause of the fall in the beginning according to the father of of lies, Satan, as the same lie he is still trying to work in the hearts of men.

It gives rise to the word patron saints which is needed in their necromancy doctrines .


And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.And “when the people saw (the lust of the eye not wlking by faith the useen.) what Paul had done”, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the “likeness of men”.And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the "chief speaker".Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Act 14:8
 
Here is another of my opinions.

People may cut and paste the entire Word, but if they do not know all they wind up doing is expending lots of air on both sides of the question.

I have experienced many miracles in the name of Jesus Christ, and I have witnessed them, and no amount of quoting Scripture without the Holy Spirit is going to settle anything.

Either a person knows or he does not.
 
POST TO EVERYONE!

PLEASE READ my Post #689

This is going down the same destructive path that I have personally seen every discussion I have been involved in, on this subject over past 3.8 decades go. IT IS THE OPPOSITE OF DEMONSTRATING BROTHERLY LOVE.
 
Roger, I and many others have tried patiently and repeatedly to show you scripture. You are unwilling to listen and consider. So, would parading Gods word in front of you for the umpteenth time really make any difference? Methinks not. You're not going to listen and consider so why waste my time anymore?

But I will answer one thing... why would I want the so-called ceased gifts.

Because I want to speak in prayer over things I don't know about, but God does

Because we see thru the glass darkly at this time, and additional knowledge and wisdom are very helpful things


and of course

BECAUSE THE BIBLE TELLS US TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Question is, why do you want to exclude yourself from them?

Roger, I understand your skepticism, there's a LOT of falsehoods out there. And Paul does tell us that we should not do it rather than do it wrong. If you wish to abstain for those reasons, more power to you.

But time after time after time after time after time, done right they produce results that glorify God and edify others.

Why do you not want that?


RickyZ, please step back and look at what is happening in you as you make these posts. ANGER between brethren is the Devil's work. If you are not already ANGRY, you are standing on that borderline.

Sure you can show verses that you perceive to be support for the Charismatic tongues, and I can show you at least twice as many verses that I am convinced support a NON-Charismatic postition. In fact I once wrote by hand, YEARS before the computer age, a Bible Study explaining the Non-Charismatic Position. I have since saved it as a Word Doc on my PC, and it is 12 pages of Times New Roman #10 Font; plus a separate page, listing every single Resource that I used to prepare to write the Study. So where does that leave us without arguing? That is called a STALEMATE.
 
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In 1 Corinthians 12, it is referred to as part of the body of Christ, and it also states that not all will speak with tongues.
vs. 27-31
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

In my opinion, this part of the scripture explains that not everyone is given the same gifts. I don't know what part of the body of Christ it may be, but let's just say it is the foot of the body. If you are the hand in the body, and it is the foot would you wish to cut it off just because you are not the foot. I would hope not because we need the body to be whole in order for it to accomplish what is needed.
How does this relate to what is going on in the Pentecostal charismatic church of today? Only three sign gifts ended but they are the gifts most abused by the church

Ever stop and ask what would the church look like if there were no tongues or no contemporary music? What if the church service was preaching Gods word and singing hymns without signs and wonders and rock bands?

Where do we find and define real love?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
You commit the fallacy of taking me out context and injecting words I did not say. Let us be clear. Kenneth Copeland is a false prophet. He says Jesus took on the nature of satan on the Cross. Now that blaspemy.

I'm with you on that one!
 
you make a very good point .

this is what happens when two side of the same topic do not agree and try to force the point they believe to be right by interjecting they are blaspheming. But there are those who have studied and can see that there are those who abuse the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and those who do not believe the gifts are for today. The first I think is far more damaging because it provides fuel for the later. BUT The Bible is clear The Holy Spirit is with us today and IF the Same Holy Spirit can and does provide " the Gift of Discernment " then why would HE not provide all of them? and If the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased then how is it one can claim to have the " Gift " of Discernment if they are no longer for today ?

There is a reason why 1 cor chapter 12, 13, 14 Call the the Gifts of the Holy Spirit

You are right. Abuse of the gifts is indeed very damaging because it causes people to toss the baby with the bathwater... and to go even farther. It's one thing to say you don't believe in them, it's quite another to say ALL manifestations of them are demonic. Because in doing so you lump proper use with the abuse, and step out onto a very precipitous ledge.

Discernment is indeed the key. And how people discern things when they don't believe the gift of discernment exists... that's an excellent question. You can't receive something if you deny it exists.
 
I do not commit blasphemy. I condemn the false teachers that make a mockery of God's word. I am not calling you a false teacher so why do you condemn me. I have the gift of discernment. If God so chooses any gift it His perogative. I am just commenting on what I see and hear these so-called preachers teach. I do this with meekness and respect.

If I misread that I apologize. I'm with you in your assertion that there are a lot of false teachers out there. But I also take from your posts that you believe there are NO true tongues, and given that then all attempts at tongues are demonic. If I mistook that then I apologize.
 
It says all 10 were virgins. A virgin is clean,pure set apart and undefiled. That is just the simple truth.

They are by depiction in the spirit saved or righteous.

Oil is a totally separate issue.

Right. The story isn't about 5 saved and 5 unsaved, it is about 5 faithful and 5 unfaithful servants. Even the unfaithful ones are still servants.
 
So please show us what is genuine tongues? I have asked for you to show me from the scriptures what they are and no one has endeavored to tell me and to say that the tongues of Acts are the tongues they practice.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

People have endeavored, people have shown you. The problem is that you turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to them. It's not that people are refusing your request, it's that you are refusing to see and hear them.
 
You are right. Abuse of the gifts is indeed very damaging because it causes people to toss the baby with the bathwater... and to go even farther. It's one thing to say you don't believe in them, it's quite another to say ALL manifestations of them are demonic. Because in doing so you lump proper use with the abuse, and step out onto a very precipitous ledge.

Discernment is indeed the key. And how people discern things when they don't believe the gift of discernment exists... that's an excellent question. You can't receive something if you deny it exists.
Discernment must come through the word of God. Discernment is not formulating your own opinion and forcing it into Gods word.

So can a born again blood bought Christian be seduced by a spirit to believe the doctrines of devils?

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
It's still all about you isn't it?
Roger

It's all about the glory of God, Roger. Every. Single. Thing. I have related to you concludes with God's glory being shown. YOU are the one obsessed with self, that's why you think you see so much of it in others.
 
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People have endeavored, people have shown you. The problem is that you turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to them. It's not that people are refusing your request, it's that you are refusing to see and hear them.
You have never shown them from the scriptures. The truth remains that none of the Pentecostals or charismatic can even agree what constitutes these NT new church age tongues. I have yet to see any who claim that they are like the tongues of Acts where the speaker is heard by all in their own language. The interpreter must be the Holy Spirit in the ears of the hearer if the Holy Spirit is in fact in the lips of the speaker.

Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?


None who claim the ended gift of tongues will admit that they cannot define or support their actions by the scriptures. Oh they want to go with broad undefined generalizations and leave it up to others to wonder but that is now how God works.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
RickyZ, please step back and look at what is happening in you as you make these posts. ANGER between brethren is the Devil's work. If you are not already ANGRY, you are standing on that borderline.

Sure you can show verses that you perceive to be support for the Charismatic tongues, and I can show you at least twice as many verses that I am convinced support a NON-Charismatic postition. In fact I once wrote by hand, YEARS before the computer age, a Bible Study explaining the Non-Charismatic Position. I have since saved it as a Word Doc on my PC, and it is 12 pages of Times New Roman #10 Font; plus a separate page, listing every single Resource that I used to prepare to write the Study. So where does that leave us without arguing? That is called a STALEMATE.

I am very passionate about this. And I am indeed angry. I am angry at satan for muddying these waters. If it weren't for satan's monkey-wrenching NONE of this would even be up for discussion. I apologize if I appear to lashing out at people (except for Roger, he kinda brings it upon himself). In reality I am lashing out at satan, for spreading such disunity and falsehoods among the brethren.

I know this is going to sound more caustic than I intend it to, but you seem to be overly impressed with your written treatise. You can write a jillion pages against them, it doesn't matter. All I know is that amid all the falsehoods, there are true bonafide cases of tongues being used to bring forth the glory of God. In no way, shape, or form could anything falsified by satan bring forth the glory of God. Just ONE instance of tongues bringing glory to God blows all the words and pages you may write against it right out of the water.

You know, there are pages and pages of scientific 'proofs' saying that bumblebees cannot fly. Yet it only takes one of them buzzing past you to prove all that wrong.

Damn thee satan! The lake of fire you are headed to for creating these confusions is still far too good for you!
 
it's zokay. They are gifts not requirements, if one chooses not to accept...then don't.

Won't lose your salvation....just blessings
 
You have never shown them from the scriptures. The truth remains that none of the Pentecostals or charismatic can even agree what constitutes these NT new church age tongues. I have yet to see any who claim that they are like the tongues of Acts where the speaker is heard by all in their own language. The interpreter must be the Holy Spirit in the ears of the hearer if the Holy Spirit is in fact in the lips of the speaker.

Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?


None who claim the ended gift of tongues will admit that they cannot define or support their actions by the scriptures. Oh they want to go with broad undefined generalizations and leave it up to others to wonder but that is now how God works.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The blind will not see, no matter how much light is shown upon the truth. You have been provided scripture repeatedly. You repeatedly choose to ignore it. Not much I can do about that at this point.
 
The blind will not see, no matter how much light is shown upon the truth. You have been provided scripture repeatedly. You repeatedly choose to ignore it. Not much I can do about that at this point.
Now who is ignoring scripture?

You certainly cannot argue against God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger