PATRIOTISM IS BIBLICAL, But Is It Dying In AMERICA?

[KohenMatt]

Jesus never endorsed allegiance to particular countries, only that you obey those put in charge of you. Jesus' allegiance was not to Rome or Israel or anywhere else. His allegiance was to His Father and His Kingdom. That is where my allegiance lies as well.

And again, this is coming from a government employee.

 

[JaumeJ]

For the longest time I understood the law about our "leader" to pertain to government leaders, and it did when Israel was yet with us in the time of our Lord and Salvation, Jesus. After looking further into it, it dawned on me that this law is in referene to teh High Priest, and I would suppose to the King od Israel, but this law is not directed to Gentile leaders. This said, it is always right to obey our government leaders, as you have said in another post, as long as the obedience is not against what we know is the will of our Father in Heaven.

Jesus never endorsed allegiance to particular countries, only that you obey those put in charge of you. Jesus' allegiance was not to Rome or Israel or anywhere else. His allegiance was to His Father and His Kingdom. That is where my allegiance lies as well.

And again, this is coming from a government employee.

 

[VCO]

Jesus never endorsed allegiance to particular countries, only that you obey those put in charge of you. Jesus' allegiance was not to Rome or Israel or anywhere else. His allegiance was to His Father and His Kingdom. That is where my allegiance lies as well.

And again, this is coming from a government employee.

"Give unto Caesar" that Caesar is sybolism for the governing authories that over you.

In the same manor:


1 Peter 2:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king. That king is a symbolic title for any ruler over you.

 

[JaumeJ]

When we think on our loyalty to our Father we come to the realization that none of us who believe would ever want to disobey our King, with or without knowing all of His desires for us, His statures, ordinances, commandments and laws. No our desire is to obey our King, and to bring in leaders of this age, or nations of this age, our allegiance is so obvious.

We have no desire to disobey our King's wishes; He died for us. Praise Him always, amen.

 

[VCO]

For the longest time I understood the law about our "leader" to pertain to government leaders, and it did when Israel was yet with us in the time of our Lord and Salvation, Jesus. After looking further into it, it dawned on me that this law is in referene to teh High Priest, and I would suppose to the King od Israel, but this law is not directed to Gentile leaders. This said, it is always right to obey our government leaders, as you have said in another post, as long as the obedience is not against what we know is the will of our Father in Heaven.

GOOD LUCK EXPLAINING THAT ONE TO JESUS.

1 Peter 2:13-20 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.

Romans 13:1-8 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

 

[JaumeJ]

If you understand what I have posted, it is already quite well elaborated upon. God bless you with His wisdom and understanding. Do not destroy yourself with what is falsely called knowledge.

GOOD LUCK EXPLAINING THAT ONE TO JESUS.

1 Peter 2:13-20 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.

Romans 13:1-8 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

 

[JaumeJ]

When we read all of the Word, the Word is Jesus Christ, we learn that God teaches us in the Old Testament that He is our Savior and He is our King....... This knowledge alone for any believer should settle any question about worldly patriotism and the eternal loyalty.

I just love the understanding that none who believe our King have any desire to disobey Him knowing that even His slightest whim, if there is such a thing, is good and just.

Now for Whom do you suppose our loyalty will be for eternity? I know, and all the children know. I thank our Father that He has hidden these things for the wise and given them to His children, amen.

 

[VCO]

was Jesus really patriotic? if so wouldnt that mean he loved His fellow Jews more than the nations. are not all people equal to the Holy Father?

YOU ARE TRYING COMPARE APPLE TO ORANGES, and then saying they taste EQUAL. Love for COUNTRY and Love for ALL PEOPLE are comparing two different things.

Matthew 23:37-39 (ASV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Luke 1:13-17 (RSV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zechari'ah, for your prayer is heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] for he will be great before the Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And he will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Eli'jah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared."

Luke 1:68 (RSV)
[SUP]68 [/SUP] "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he has visited and redeemed his people,

Luke 1:80 (RSV)
[SUP]80 [/SUP] And the child grew and became strong in spirit, and he was in the wilderness till the day of his manifestation to Israel.

Luke 2:30-34 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
[SUP]32 [/SUP] A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Acts 2:36 (NRSV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Therefore let the entire house of Israel know with certainty that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified."

How many tears did HE shed over Israel? I do not think we will know until we actually get to heaven.

 

[VCO]

Jesus never endorsed allegiance to particular countries, only that you obey those put in charge of you. Jesus' allegiance was not to Rome or Israel or anywhere else. His allegiance was to His Father and His Kingdom. That is where my allegiance lies as well.

And again, this is coming from a government employee.

It is kinda like your Avatar. It is good to support and root for your Home Team; but He never said "Thou shalt support and root for the ROYALS."

 

[Eternallife]

My opinion is that people put way too much hope into governments when our only hope is to live in God's kingdom.

 

[peacenik]

TO FURTHER UNDER SCORE MY POINT, THIS KIND OF STUFF NEVER HAPPENED IN THE PAST:

[video]http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/american-flag-at-center-of-controversy-at-college-area-apartment-complex-09192014[/video]

You do Know that they make flag pole holders for flying off apartment balconies or fence posts without dmaging the owner's property, don't you?

This one requires NO drilling holes in the owners property:

FlagBracketPA - Website of flagbracketpa!

A piece of intertube the same width as the plate, would protect the owner's paint on the post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUEWXVtmQRY

There are flags everywhere in my neighborhood and all over the state. If anything it proves patriotism is alive and well.

 

[VCO]

There are flags everywhere in my neighborhood and all over the state. If anything it proves patriotism is alive and well.

AT A FRACTION OF WHAT IT USED TO BE.

 

[VCO]

My opinion is that people put way too much hope into governments when our only hope is to live in God's kingdom.

In my opinion, Patriotism is NOT about hope in the government, but rather thankfulness, appreciation, and respect for the Veterans that paid the price for our Freedoms. THAT IS WHAT FLAG WAVING IS ALL ABOUT.

 

[JaumeJ]

Our patriotism is only with God and the people referred to in the quote below from Revelation. This is not comparing apples with oranges, no, not at all.

Friendship with this world is enmity with God. The children all know this. Keep in mind this understanding is from the Wörd only, and not from the nations.

REVELATION 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,
REVELATION 5:10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Daniel 11:38
But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

World's Top Military Spenders: U.S. Spends More than Next Top 14 Countries Combined | Mercatus

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Daniel 11:38
But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

World's Top Military Spenders: U.S. Spends More than Next Top 14 Countries Combined | Mercatus

2 Chronicles 26:14-16 "And Uzziah prepared for them throughout all the host shields, and spears, and helmets, and habergeons, and bows, and slings to cast stones.[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he made in Jerusalem engines, invented by cunning men, to be on the towers and upon the bulwarks, to shoot arrows and great stones withal. And his name spread far abroad; for he was marvellously helped, till he was strong.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But when he was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the Lord his God, and went into the temple of the Lord to burn incense upon the altar of incense.

 

[VCO]

Our patriotism is only with God and the people referred to in the quote below from Revelation. This is not comparing apples with oranges, no, not at all.

Friendship with this world is enmity with God. The children all know this. Keep in mind this understanding is from the Wörd only, and not from the nations.

So does that mean you cut these verses out of your BIBLE, and threw them away?

Matthew 22:21 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] They said to Him, "Caesar's." And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Romans 13:1-8 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Daniel 3:2-7 "Then Nebuchadnezzar the king sent to gather together the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, to come to the dedication of the image which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up; and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of music, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up."

Oh say can you see!!!!

 

[peacenik]

AT A FRACTION OF WHAT IT USED TO BE.

Absolute NONSENSE.

I went past the monument to Civil War veterans in down town St Paul today and there were numerous flags put there by volunteers. Numerous others flags were put on Summit Avenue nearby.


You should be ashamed of yourself for putting down patriotic fervor in the USA.

 

[JaumeJ]

Good morning all, I pray your day in Christ is productive and in love..

As for teh above reference to Peter and his teaching advice on obeying our leaders. I have already addressed this question much earlier, however for the sake of those who are not following this thread,

this teaching is from the law regarding the leaders of the believers. It was a theocracy, and the leaders were the priests, teh High Priest first of all. We do indeed render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, but we never take fro teh authority of our Master in order to obey this from Christ.

Children understand this. Love in Jesus Christ.......keep our allegiance in perspective, amen.