Lordship Salvation is false teaching

[crossnote]

I think he was referring to faith period.

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24​

btw, I was kind of being tongue-in-cheek with my initial comment. I've been waiting to spring that on someone who used the faith alone thing. Kind of funny I think.

I'm still looking how you defend this...

"faith and a dedication to obedience"

rather than this...

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
(Eph 2:8-9)

or...

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
(Rom 3:28)

 

[Ariel82]

Are we saved by grace alone through faith alone? (Scripture)

OR

Are we saved by grace alone through faith and a dedication to obedience? (Lordship salvation)

We are saved by grace through faith and God adds to that faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, perseverance, brotherly kindness and love.

If we don't have deep roots or bear fruit are we still saved?

I guess it depends on if you believe all four seeds were saved in the parable or if only one was saved...the one the birds stole, the ro,cky ground, the weed infested one and the good soil.

It's not my job to judge another's salvation. However I know God is able to plant the seed again in the lives Satan stole from. He is able to tear down the stones and force the roots to grow deep during periods of drought. He can weed out thorns and whistles of this life so that all we have is Him. All this He does by His grace and mercy.

At what exact point are we saved?

1. At the beginning while we are still sinners lost and dead in this world, yet hear God calling out to us?

2.when we submit our lives to Christ, admit that we are dead and in need of a savior?

3. When we hear God's answering call of love and forgiveness?

4. When we learn to walk with the Holy Spirit and tear down the spiritual strongholds?

5. When we begin to do the good works God created us to do?

6. When we die and are raised again?

God's power works through each step. People want to say others are saved at step 1 or step 5. Does it really matter what we think?

Most people won't feel saved until step 3 or 4 but God was saving them from step 1. They just might not realize it until much later.

 

[Scriptureplz]

Are we saved by grace alone through faith alone? (Scripture)

OR

Are we saved by grace alone through faith and a dedication to obedience? (Lordship salvation)

By grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone!

Rom. 3:28-30, Rom. 4:5, Rom. 5:1, Rom. 9:30, Rom. 10:4, Rom. 11:6, Gal. 2:16, Gal. 2:21, Gal. 3:5-6, Gal. 3:24, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 3:9,

Can anyone find scripture for "and a dedication to obedience?"

 

[Grace777x70]

By grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone!

Rom. 3:28-30, Rom. 4:5, Rom. 5:1, Rom. 9:30, Rom. 10:4, Rom. 11:6, Gal. 2:16, Gal. 2:21, Gal. 3:5-6, Gal. 3:24, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 3:9,

Can anyone find scripture for "and a dedication to obedience?"

I agree...what some people do like work-based mindsets - is that they see the "description" of a Christian's life that is growing in grace and then they say - "You have to do these things to be a Christian" and to go to heaven to be with the Lord.

This is a works based false gospel built on self-righteousness and human effort.

This is the reason why they say we do righteousness deeds because in their minds "in order to maintain their righteousness." this needs to be done. This is the anti-the gospel part of their beliefs.

True Christian life is Christ's life flowing in and through us as He bears His fruit in our lives. Without Him we can do nothing.

 

[Scriptureplz]

We are saved by grace through faith and God adds to that faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, perseverance, brotherly kindness and love.

Some fruit of the Spirit may come automatically with being saved but 'visible fruit' would likely only be shown by those who "abide" (continue) with Him (John 15). To assume that every believer will bear visible fruit of the Spirit is man made doctrine and is not biblical.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'm still looking how you defend this...

"faith and a dedication to obedience"

rather than this...

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
(Eph 2:8-9)

or...

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
(Rom 3:28)

Salvation by means of grace does not preclude our obedience, but it does preclude justification by means of our obedience. I don't believe in progressive justification, but I do believe in progressing sanctification and perfection, which only happens through obedience.

 

[Grace777x70]

Salvation by means of grace does not preclude our obedience, but it does preclude justification by means of our obedience. I don't believe in progressive justification, but I do believe in progressing sanctification and perfection, which only happens through obedience.

The same way we were saved - is the exact same way we are to grow in Him - by grace through faith. His life in us as we trust and rely on Him alone will bring about His fruit in our lives.

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? ( the flesh is your own self-effort )

Colossians 2:6-10 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

 

[Ariel82]

Some fruit of the Spirit may come automatically with being saved but 'visible fruit' would likely only be shown by those who "abide" (continue) with Him (John 15). To assume that every believer will bear visible fruit of the Spirit is man made doctrine and is not biblical.

All fruit is visible to God. That all should strive to be good soil and bear fruit, is basic to a heart that has been born again.

At what point God decides to call His saints home, before or after bearing fruit is really in God's hands.

Just as the judging if the fruit is good or bad is ultimately in His hands as well.

Some may look good on the outside and be filled with worms within. Just as some may do good works but be filled with bitterness and envy within.

Then some may be lopsided but taste sweet.

 

[Scriptureplz]

All fruit is visible to God. That all should strive to be good soil and bear fruit, is basic to a heart that has been born again.

The point of the OP is, it is not the striving or the bearing of fruit that saves. This post is about the biblical fact that Lordship Salvation is false teaching. It is in fact 'another gospel" (Galatians 1:8-9). What you are bringing into the discussion is not to the point and is confusing to the issue of the post because it deals with what only can be in the life of a person after having already been saved.

Again, the point is "Lordship Salvation" is a false doctrine and should be identified as such.

 

[crossnote]

Salvation by means of grace does not preclude our obedience, but it does preclude justification by means of our obedience. I don't believe in progressive justification, but I do believe in progressing sanctification and perfection, which only happens through obedience.

All I am asking is when a person first believes the Gospel and receives of His Spirit, is it by grace alone through faith alone or by adding to faith a 'dedication to obedience'?

 

[oldethennew]

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for 'righteousness' - like-wise, if one
believes Jesus Christ, he is justified, he is made 'innocent' from his PAST sins...

but, the 'development of Faith comes through Faithfulness - Noah built the ARK through obedience ---
I myself can build an ARK through 'disobedience' and it means 'nothing'...

HEB. 11, the FAITH CHAPTER shows very plain that FAITH is always accompanied by FAITHFULNESS...

the only example in the scripture that we know of, where 'belief' is accompanied by 'un-faithfulness',
is when James states that the 'devils believe', and they tremble...

 

[Scriptureplz]

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for 'righteousness' - like-wise, if one
believes Jesus Christ, he is justified, he is made 'innocent' from his PAST sins...

but, the 'development of Faith comes through Faithfulness - Noah built the ARK through obedience ---
I myself can build an ARK through 'disobedience' and it means 'nothing'...

HEB. 11, the FAITH CHAPTER shows very plain that FAITH is always accompanied by FAITHFULNESS...

the only example in the scripture that we know of, where 'belief' is accompanied by 'un-faithfulness',
is when James states that the 'devils believe', and they tremble...

I agree with your first point, but to say an unbeliever has to "develop" faith to be saved is false according to scripture. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". Romans 10:17

Luke 18:17 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.



The OP is to show the false gospel of Lordship Salvation. I don't think there are many children that would even understand what is involved in "surrendering their life".

Faith development would come after salvation has been completed. That would be more about sanctification than justification. Faith is not ALWAYS accompanied by faithfulness. Plenty of biblical examples to choose from there.

Is it your understanding that in order to be saved we must "turn from sin"? Are we to surrender our life to His service? These are things we should do as believers, but this is after having been saved already. I made this post because it matters according to Gods word what we believe, and if someone is taught they have to do something in order to be saved other than simple belief (trust) in Christ, they have heard a false gospel that will not save them. There are several in this forum from what I have seen (as well as just about anywhere else) that are teaching and probably believing a false gospel, and are in danger of an eternity spent in hell.

 

[Ariel82]

The point of the OP is, it is not the striving or the bearing of fruit that saves. This post is about the biblical fact that Lordship Salvation is false teaching. It is in fact 'another gospel" (Galatians 1:8-9). What you are bringing into the discussion is not to the point and is confusing to the issue of the post because it deals with what only can be in the life of a person after having already been saved.

Again, the point is "Lordship Salvation" is a false doctrine and should be identified as such.

The op is confusing and what I have researched of Lordship salvation points that it's not another gospel and your title is false because you created a straw man to burn....what you claim is lordship salvation is false but that is not what lordship salvation is as defined by the people who claim to follow it.

"
There are several in this forum from what I have seen (as well as just about anywhere else) that are teaching and probably believing a false gospel, and are in danger of an eternity spent in hell"

How easy is it for you to condemn people because you don't understand what is being said?

 

[Ariel82]

So if someone gave their life to Christ, repented and asked God to save them...fully believed that Jesus died on the cross for their sins....somehow to you, they are believing in and teaching a different gospel?

And most likely in danger to be condemned to hell?

Just trying to see what it is you are really saying.

 

[Scriptureplz]

The op is confusing and what I have researched of Lordship salvation points that it's not another gospel and your title is false because you created a straw man to burn....what you claim is lordship salvation is false but that is not what lordship salvation is as defined by the people who claim to follow it.

"
There are several in this forum from what I have seen (as well as just about anywhere else) that are teaching and probably believing a false gospel, and are in danger of an eternity spent in hell"

How easy is it for you to condemn people because you don't understand what is being said?

Maybe it's you that doesn't understand what is being said, or what the bible says.

This is what John MacArthur says Lordship Salvation is. If you disagree that this is a false gospel, I'm here to tell you you don't know what the true gospel is. Might help to read Romans chapters 3-5.


The Distinctives of Lordship Salvation
There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching. For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths: (1) Christ's death purchased eternal salvation; (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone; (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor; (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation; (5) eternal life is a gift of God; (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works; and (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly.
What, then, are the distinctives of lordship salvation? What does Scripture teach that is embraced by those who affirm lordship salvation but rejected by proponents of "easy-believism"? The following are nine distinctives of a biblical understanding of salvation and the gospel.

First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation.

Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Ephesians 2:1-5, 8). Real faith therefore cannot be defective or short-lived but endures forever (Philippians 1:6; cf. Hebrews 11). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that faith might not last and that a true Christian can completely cease believing.

Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16). Faith therefore involves personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). In other words, all true believers follow Jesus (John 10:27-28). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that saving faith is simply being convinced or giving credence to the truth of the gospel and does not include a personal commitment to the person of Christ.

Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Galatians 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Romans 6:6). The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10). Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God's commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God's Word (John 8:31), keep God's Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 3:14). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that although some spiritual fruit is inevitable, that fruit might not be visible to others and Christians can even lapse into a state of permanent spiritual barrenness.

Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven. In contrast, according to easy-believism, only the judicial aspects of salvation (e.g., justification, adoption, and positional sanctification) are guaranteed for believers in this life; practical sanctification and growth in grace require a post-conversion act of dedication.

Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ's supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction.

Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Peter 1:8-9; Romans 8:28-30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). They will therefore long to obey Him (John 14:15, 23). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that Christians may fall into a state of lifelong carnality.

Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3). On the other hand, the person who remains utterly unwilling to obey Christ does not evidence true faith (1 John 2:4). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that disobedience and prolonged sin are no reason to doubt the reality of one's faith.

Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). Those who later turn completely away from the Lord show that they were never truly born again (1 John 2:19). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing.

Most Christians recognize that these nine distinctives are not new or radical ideas. The preponderance of Bible-believing Christians over the centuries have held these to be basic tenets of orthodoxy. In fact, no major orthodox movement in the history of Christianity has ever taught that sinners can spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior.
This issue is not a trivial one. In fact, how could any issue be more important? The gospel that is presented to unbelievers has eternal ramifications. If it is the true gospel, it can direct men and women into the everlasting kingdom. If it is a corrupted message, it can give unsaved people false hope while consigning them to eternal damnation. This is not merely a matter for theologians to discuss and debate and speculate about. This is an issue that every single pastor and lay person must understand in order that the gospel may be rightly proclaimed to all the nations.
An Introduction to Lordship Salvation

 

[Ariel82]

Why do you object to his points?

Which ones don't you like?

Point
1.Do you advocate that people remain in sin?
2. Do you believe faith is short lived and people can reject God and lose their salvation?
3. Should people Not follow Jesus but just recite a creed?
4. Shouldn't all Christians strive to bear fruit?
5. What is wrong with practical santification?
6. Why not submit to God's authority?
7. Shouldn't born again believers long for God and want to obey Him and live more godly lives?
8. If you are trapped by sin, then you have issues that you need to take to God to help you deal with and be set free.
9. I don't really like this one because I can't comprehend anyone abandoning God .

So how is this a different Gospel? Why would people want to deny that Jesus is Lord and Savior?

 

[Ariel82]

The gospel that Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience, not just a plea to make a decision or pray a prayer. Jesus' message liberated people from the bondage of their sin while it confronted and condemned hypocrisy. It was an offer of eternal life and forgiveness for repentant sinners, but at the same time it was a rebuke to outwardly religious people whose lives were devoid of true righteousness. It put sinners on notice that they must turn from sin and embrace God's righteousness. Our Lord's words about eternal life were invariably accompanied by warnings to those who might be tempted to take salvation lightly. He taught that the cost of following Him is high, that the way is narrow and few find it. He said many who call him Lord will be forbidden from entering the kingdom of heaven (cf. Matthew 7:13-23).

Present-day evangelicalism, by and large, ignores these warnings. The prevailing view of what constitutes saving faith continues to grow broader and more shallow, while the portrayal of Christ in preaching and witnessing becomes fuzzy. Anyone who claims to be a Christian can find evangelicals willing to accept a profession of faith, whether or not the person's behavior shows any evidence of commitment to Christ. In this way, faith has become merely an intellectual exercise. Instead of calling men and women to surrender to Christ, modern evangelism asks them only to accept some basic facts about Him.

This shallow understanding of salvation and the gospel, known as "easy-believism," stands in stark contrast to what the Bible teaches. To put it simply, the gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ's authority. This, in a nutshell, is what is commonly referred to as lordship salvation.

I strongly oppise "easy believism". Where someone leads people in the "sinners prayer" and have them confess Jesus then abandons them....no watering, no mentoring or discipleship...

It causes people to be callous to the true gospel because they think they are already saved since they muttered some magic words without any repentance in their hearts or submission to God or His will.

They think yelling "Jesus" is a magical spell that will chase away all the demons in their life and never truly learn to study or pray.

Yet eventually they wonder why their magic word doesn't work and they have troubles still in their lives and they don't get that new car they are naming and claiming...then they curse God and throw a temper tantrum.

That is what "easy believism" false gospel does to people.

Not sure if anyone claims to believe in that false gospel but that is what Lordship salvation is meant to answer...

So if you don't believe in Lordship salvation, how do you counter that kind of false gospel?

 

[crossnote]

Some of those points include the Gospel but some e.g. #6 should be in the sanctification arena.
Never do we read in Acts, for example, "Repent, and believe and fully surrender your life to Jesus and you will be saved".

Paul makes clear the Gospel he was given and we should not add to it...

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
(1Co 15:1-4)

That is the Gospel to be believed by which one is saved.

 

[oldethennew]

I agree with your first point, but to say an unbeliever has to "develop" faith to be saved is false according to scripture. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". Romans 10:17

Luke 18:17 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.



The OP is to show the false gospel of Lordship Salvation. I don't think there are many children that would even understand what is involved in "surrendering their life".

Faith development would come after salvation has been completed. That would be more about sanctification than justification. Faith is not ALWAYS accompanied by faithfulness. Plenty of biblical examples to choose from there.

Is it your understanding that in order to be saved we must "turn from sin"? Are we to surrender our life to His service? These are things we should do as believers, but this is after having been saved already. I made this post because it matters according to Gods word what we believe, and if someone is taught they have to do something in order to be saved other than simple belief (trust) in Christ, they have heard a false gospel that will not save them. There are several in this forum from what I have seen (as well as just about anywhere else) that are teaching and probably believing a false gospel, and are in danger of an eternity spent in hell.

========================================================

Scriptureplz,

how did you come to the conclusion that we were saying that 'unbelievers' develop Faith?
this is an 'impossibility according to scripture...we were speaking of the 'life of Abraham',
and fellow believers and how Abraham's life was a picture of the development of his FAITH...
JAMES 2:21. - Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

11TIM. 4:7. - I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

these two heroes of Faith are our examples of reaching the Mountaintop of Faith through Christ Jesus,
who dwelt in them...

as it is written, 'Not by power, not by might, but by My Spirit, saith The Lord.'







but to say an unbeliever has to "develop" faith to be saved is false according to scripture. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". Romans 10:17

 

[Scriptureplz]

Why do you object to his points?

Which ones don't you like?

Point
1.Do you advocate that people remain in sin?
2. Do you believe faith is short lived and people can reject God and lose their salvation?
3. Should people Not follow Jesus but just recite a creed?
4. Shouldn't all Christians strive to bear fruit?
5. What is wrong with practical santification?
6. Why not submit to God's authority?
7. Shouldn't born again believers long for God and want to obey Him and live more godly lives?
8. If you are trapped by sin, then you have issues that you need to take to God to help you deal with and be set free.
9. I don't really like this one because I can't comprehend anyone abandoning God .

So how is this a different Gospel? Why would people want to deny that Jesus is Lord and Savior?

Anything that puts a responsibility on man for salvation IS A FALSE GOSPEL. You only need to read Romans 3-5 and Galatians would be a plus as well.

God has offered a free gift that can only be received by faith in Christ alone. If a person believes they contribute by doing this or that, they have not believed in Christ alone have they? If the bible is understood correctly, the things that John M. and others teach for salvation, are actually for discipleship.

Grace can only be grace if it is received as grace! The minute you inject man in any part of it it is no longer grace. This is what the bible teaches, people only need to check this against Gods word to see that is true.

Galatians 2:21 (KJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.