Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

[Grandpa]

What does faith say?

What does faith see?


Does faith waver back and forth wondering if it has done enough works to earn the gift? Or does faith already know what has been given?

All these silly questions of un-belief.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Its not looking too good to me. I see mostly faith in ones own abilities, which is no faith at all.

 

[PeterJens]

Meaningless? See how easily you negate biblical truth to carry on with what you want to believe? Until you figure out what that means you will never know just how deep your sin goes. And you will, no doubt, continue spitting into the wind.

The road of declaring anything outside of your faith as sin, is the road to insane cruelty and evil.
If you understood ISIS you would know what I am speaking of.

Love does not dwell in your ideas. You dishonour Christ and the cross to suggest as you do.

I know why we will never agree because this is a spiritual kingdom divide, though you see it not.
I do not know how you came to Christ, but you live is deception, sin dwells in your soul and directs
your paths.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The road of declaring anything outside of your faith as sin, is the road to insane cruelty and evil.

Well, it's biblical truth. So...............

 

[Josefnospam]

A long post. But a short answer.........If God gives you his spirit it is forever. In one word....... NO

Sing praises to God sing praises to the Lord. For he has done a wonderful work. "Oh that men would praise the lord for his goodness and wonderful works to the children of men".......Psalm 107

"He shall choose our inheritance for us" Psalm 47 and he is King of the whole earth. Even the heathen.....Praise God who is Jesus Christ the Lord and Saviour of his chosen blood bought people and if he has redeemed you from the enemy SAY so.

 

[LaurenTM]

The road of declaring anything outside of your faith as sin, is the road to insane cruelty and evil.
If you understood ISIS you would know what I am speaking of.

Love does not dwell in your ideas. You dishonour Christ and the cross to suggest as you do.

I know why we will never agree because this is a spiritual kingdom divide, though you see it not.
I do not know how you came to Christ, but you live is deception, sin dwells in your soul and directs
your paths.

why are you so accusatory?

I've been reading your posts and it seems you just get so angry or defensive or something

come on, I don't think we need to do that

you can't talk to people like you are currently doing and have any sort of agreement because you accuse rather than discuss

why is that? I do wish you would stop it and allow for some actual discussion

 

[LaurenTM]

A long post. But a short answer.........If God gives you his spirit it is forever. In one word....... NO

Sing praises to God sing praises to the Lord. For he has done a wonderful work. "Oh that men would praise the lord for his goodness and wonderful works to the children of men".......Psalm 107

"He shall choose our inheritance for us" Psalm 47 and he is King of the whole earth. Even the heathen.....Praise God who is Jesus Christ the Lord and Saviour of his chosen blood bought people and if he has redeemed you from the enemy SAY so.

praising brings about a heart change and a grateful attitude instead of all this picking apart

thanks for interjecting some truth! and yes!! Jesus has redeemed me from the hand of the enemy and I am saved, being saved and shall be saved

 

[Leonor]

praising brings about a heart change and a grateful attitude instead of all this picking apart

thanks for interjecting some truth! and yes!! Jesus has redeemed me from the hand of the enemy and I am saved, being saved and shall be saved

Amen!!! It is a done deal!!

 

[PeterJens]

Roman 14:23
Paul is talking about being condemned in your conscience because of your faith or ideas.
He said anything that does not come from faith is sin.

It is a wonder why Paul created this concept. He is probably meaning if you in your faith believe eating a particular food is sinful, and you do not have something that tells you otherwise that is sinful behaviour.

This is though opening morality up to people with weak consciences have now condemned themselves to hell.
And those whose faith says everything is ok, are now free to do anything.

Both these positions Paul would not agree with, so he was trying to show how your own personal conviction as regards to clean and unclean food is fine, but do not impose it on others.

But the people with no proper morality take this minor phrase and extend it as the total direction for christian life.

Another tendency is perfection in the sermon on the mount while ignoring perfection in following Christ.
If you want you can create extremes, because the Lord is happy to give you this choice.

 

[Grandpa]

The road of declaring anything outside of your faith as sin, is the road to insane cruelty and evil.
If you understood ISIS you would know what I am speaking of.

Love does not dwell in your ideas. You dishonour Christ and the cross to suggest as you do.

I know why we will never agree because this is a spiritual kingdom divide, though you see it not.
I do not know how you came to Christ, but you live is deception, sin dwells in your soul and directs
your paths.

How is it that you don't understand?

How can you understand any of the bible and be a Christian and not understand that whatever is not of faith is sin?

How can you be the workmanship of God? How can you receive Salvation?


You don't seem to understand any of these things. But you understand how to accuse. That's odd for a Christian, isn't it?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Roman 14:23
Paul is talking about being condemned in your conscience because of your faith or ideas.
He said anything that does not come from faith is sin.

It is a wonder why Paul created this concept. He is probably meaning if you in your faith believe eating a particular food is sinful, and you do not have something that tells you otherwise that is sinful behaviour.

This is though opening morality up to people with weak consciences have now condemned themselves to hell.
And those whose faith says everything is ok, are now free to do anything.

Both these positions Paul would not agree with, so he was trying to show how your own personal conviction as regards to clean and unclean food is fine, but do not impose it on others.

But the people with no proper morality take this minor phrase and extend it as the total direction for christian life.

Another tendency is perfection in the sermon on the mount while ignoring perfection in following Christ.
If you want you can create extremes, because the Lord is happy to give you this choice.

Funny. You ask for the biblical definition of sin, but then work hard to try and explain why you reject the biblical definition.

 

[PeterJens]

Everything that does not come from faith is sin. Rom 14:23


Now the problem is the meaning of the word faith. Is this everything a person does without
having faith, then it is evil?


Or is it a believer who does not have the faith to believe that an action is ok, then it is sinful.


The context of the passage is exactly this. How can one believer do something while another
cannot. To take the passage to apply to non-believers fails the context 100%.


Does faith in and of itself define morality? No. It is the effect of the action on the people involved.


To interpret morality is defined by the faith of the person simply denies the rest of scripture.


So if you wish to choose this as your basis of what morality is, it shows how weak your
life understanding actually is.

The problem with peoples interpretation of a verse does not mean they understand what it means
It is fair to look at all the possible interpretations and eliminate those that conflict with the rest
of scripture.

In the middle of a discussion about eating defiled food, is not a place where the whole of morality
is defined from Adam to today. But this is what people want you to believe.

 

[PeterJens]

How is it that you don't understand?
How can you understand any of the bible and be a Christian and not understand that whatever is not of faith is sin?
How can you be the workmanship of God? How can you receive Salvation
You don't seem to understand any of these things. But you understand how to accuse. That's odd for a Christian, isn't it?

Now imagine this point. One partial verse about faith and sin, and I am no longer a christian. do not understand the bible, are not Gods workmanship.

Jesus said believe in to gain eternal life, but you must also believe everything else is sin unless you have faith.

But what faith? Faith in Christ, faith in God, faith in the bible, faith in love, faith in the law of God, faith in Gods grace to the world. When people build a whole theology on such open ended terms, it shows how desperate they are.

And I am accusing? No I am just following Jesus.
Now in my faith, I am expressing 100% what we as a group believe.

It is fine for people to have a different faith, but that is all it is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG if you bother to read my posts above, which I doubt, I have no idea about what you are calling sin.

Peter. I am at the point I do not care what you think anymore. Many people and myself have shown you over and over, You say we believe things we do not. Never have, and you continue to make excuses as to what it is not sin.

Your on your own buddy.. People have tried to help you. You can not help someone who does not think he needs help..

I do not accept your definitions or believe in your faith or salvation.

You don't know my defenitions or my faith, You prove it every time you try to tell me what I think, or tell others what I think..

How can you reject WHAT YOU DO NOT KBNOW?

Can you tell me that please?

You follow a mystic version of christianity. In the broadest sense it is still christian but its morality is
different. So please accept my apology. Using normal descriptive language is sin to you.
Describing what you believe and how it works emotionally is sin to you.
Not accepting you as a great spiritual teacher is sin to you.

Yeah Yeah Whatever,, Another lie.

Yes my morality is different, My morality is Gods, Perfection. You water down Gods law. No wonder you excuse your sin.

For me to turn the other cheek and accept in your eyes am not saved is sin to you.

I never claimed you were not saved, I am not God.. Another lie..

You were right the issue is not OSAS. You follow a different morality and faith, but similar words.
Bens description how a believer can sin and be instantly forgiven while sinning describes how lost
your group is. It is pure projection, inventing an idea which scripture condemns. Sin is sin, not part
of the Kingdom of heaven. But ofcourse you know the Lord and I have sinned against you.

I think you are going to have to live in your hyper-legalism and realise it is nothing from my side,
I mean you no harm, I am just defining and understanding the heresy you follow.

This again will be a grevious insult and slander, but then I have come to expect nothing more.

Blah Blah.

I told you. Stop trying to tell everyone what they believe, and stick to your own doctrine so we can discuss that. You get yourself into trouble because you can not resist to tell everyone what they believe and get mad when they tell you you are wrong..

When are you going to realise, This is what the Pharisee did to Jesus?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are 3 tenses to salvation:

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (Justification).

2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing Sanctification).

3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (Glorification).

Justification is a one-time event. Ongoing Sanctification is a life-long event.

Amen bro.. I can't give a rep. so I owe you one!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God settled the "sin issue" 2000 years ago.

On calvary!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if we use the Biblical definition of sin, which is missing the mark, stumbling, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so, then ( peter) we ALL qualify.

To a legalist, this is not true.

They are like the Pharisee, Look good on outside, and hide inside. Then judge those who follow grace..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If we can loose it, begs the question, do we find it?

Scripture clearly defines the perimeters of salvation. People come along and mess it up by trying to put themselves in control of something they know very little about

Sure we can take scriptures and make them say whatever it is we think they are saying which is why, pause for breath, we need to have a solid understanding of Bible 101 meaning both testaments and have reconciled scriptures that seem to be saying the opposite of each other, which we do through study and prayer and accepting the fact that God states He has put His Spirit into each of us who are saved, in order to help us. The Holy Spirit is our teacher among other things, but never once does the Bible say anywhere we do not take council from others

and please do not try to say that this verse, As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him., I John 2:27 means we do not need anyone because God has clearly stated that He gives us teachers

a poor understanding of scripture leads to many grievous and very serious errors and affects people very negatively and causes all kinds of problems

God does not want people to suffer in this way, so be careful what you teach and what you say because you are responsible before God for causing havoc in people's lives

In the OT God had nothing good to say about the false prophets and He has the same message for those who spout out big pretentious words that sound knowledgeable but are really nothing but dried dung fit for starting fires

You will note I am not pointing any fingers here, but getting angry at what I just posted is a sure fire way to tell if you think I mean you. It is also good for me to say this, because you will hesitate to identify yourself

call it fire insurance LOL!

I need to start spreading reputation. Here is another one I owe. Amen sis

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you see peter, here is reality thinking: my goal each day is to not sin, not do anything to hurt or dishonor God. but many times I fall short of that goal. then, according to the Bible, that is sin. doing something I am not supposed to, not doing what I should.

see how easy that is defined?? I do not need to build a theological system around this concept, I just simply accept it.

Amen!! Amen!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Everything that does not come from faith is sin. Rom 14:23

Really all that verse is about is doing things that defile the conscience. If you believe doing something is wrong, and do it, then your conscience will rightfully condemn you. If you know to do something and don't do it, same result. It's all about the conscience.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Really all that verse is about is doing things that defile the conscience. If you believe doing something is wrong, and do it, then your conscience will rightfully condemn you. If you know to do something and don't do it, same result. It's all about the conscience.

I wonder what the Bible calls that which defiles the conscience? And how it explains why it is that?

Right. There's nothing there at all about whatever is not of faith being sin.