Are you a Christian?

[Wall]

So your identity is tied up in what you do? Good luck down that road of condemnation and guilt. Instead you might want to look to Jesus as your rest and see the grace bestowed upon you. Your ability to keep His commands is not why you are assured in your salvation, that is found in Christ.

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I WILL LOVE HIM, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.

[FONT=&quot]In order to receive the Holy Spirit we must first be keeping Gods 10 commandments. The 4th included. Thats what John 14{15-16} says[/FONT]

 

[Johnlove]

Okay my little naïve friend, I'm going to share this with you one time only:

Our righteousness must exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees -- that righteousness is not based on good works and perfection, for our good works are merely filthy rags in God's sight. That righteousness is based on having faith in Jesus Christ.

On a side note, I was in the midst of a severe storm for three days and asked God to quell the winds for just 15 minutes. I knew God was going to stop the winds because Jesus teaches us that things will be done according to our faith provided its God's will. The winds ceased for 15 minutes around me and me only while everyone else around me continued to get smashed by those hurricane force winds.

Here's where things will get dicey for you; I've rejoiced in God's saving grace since I was four years old, and I've sinned every single day that I was strong enough to get out of bed. And yet be that as it may, God stopped those winds for 15 minutes just like I asked. I have salvation in Jesus Christ's great and glorious Name because I've asked. Go figure.

How do you know that it was God who stopped the storm around you? Scripture tells us one is of the devil if he or she sins. Scripture tells us that a sinner cannot be in Jesus Christ. Yet you want me to believe the God is in you and taking care of you even though you still sin? That sounds like Satan saying scripture is wrong.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

 

[Johnlove]

I am all in support of striving against sin and believe that the Christian can live victoriously - but that is different than trying to say a Christian cannot or does not sin.

These verses you keep quoting from I John do not mean a Christian cannot or does not commit a single act of sin. They are in the Greek present tense which means ongoing continual action. The one who has been born out of God will not continue in sin/ or live a life of sin/ or ongoing keep on committing sins.

I John 2:1 says that if we do commit an act of sin (aorist tense), we have an advocate with the father. The Christian may commit acts of sin, but ongoingly keeping on sinning is not congruent with being born out of God.

Garbage are all those quotes that say the Greek make our translations wrong. That is just another way to water down the written Word of God. Also how does your Greek change the following scripture in order to make it say a Christian sometimes sins?

(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

 

[Chester]

How do you know that it was God who stopped the storm around you? Scripture tells us one is of the devil if he or she sins. Scripture tells us that a sinner cannot be in Jesus Christ. Yet you want me to believe the God is in you and taking care of you even though you still sin? That sounds like Satan saying scripture is wrong.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

Pas ho gegennemenos ek tou theou harmartian ou poiei, hoti sperma autou en auto menei, kai ou dunatai hamartanein, hoti ek tou theou gegennetai. en touto fanera estin to tekna tou theou kai to tekna tou diabolou pas ho me poion dikaiosunen ouk estin ek tou theou kai ho me agapon ton adelfon autou I John 3: 9,10

Maybe the Greek will be clearer than the English?? !!

 

[Johnlove]

Pas ho gegennemenos ek tou theou harmartian ou poiei, hoti sperma autou en auto menei, kai ou dunatai hamartanein, hoti ek tou theou gegennetai. en touto fanera estin to tekna tou theou kai to tekna tou diabolou pas ho me poion dikaiosunen ouk estin ek tou theou kai ho me agapon ton adelfon autou I John 3: 9,10

Maybe the Greek will be clearer than the English?? !!

Do all those Greek Words have the same meaning now as they did with the first translation? Words change meanings? “Gay”
What makes you believe that you are a better translator than those who have translated the English translations of the written Word?

Also does your translation change the following scripture?
(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”
Now for once will you answer my question?

 

[Chester]

Garbage are all those quotes that say the Greek make our translations wrong. That is just another way to water down the written Word of God. Also how does your Greek change the following scripture in order to make it say a Christian sometimes sins?

(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

I John 2:4-6 - the one who says - I know God! - but does keep on keeping (Greek present tense) his commandments is a liar.
These verses very clearly go on to say that the one who claims to be a Christian will be living ongoingly as Christ did, and will be keeping his Word, etc. Amen and Amen! (But it doesn't say - the Christian will never commit a single act of sin!)

I John 3:5,6 - Verse 5 is a powerful verse that says that Christ was manifested (came to Earth, died, and rose again) so that the power of sin might be destroyed and so that we do not have to sin! There is now power available to live above sin!

Verse 6 - the one who is ongoingly remaining (Greek present tense) in Him will not ongoingly, constantly be sinning (Greek present tense), the one who is ongoingly sinning (Greek present tense) has not seen or known God.

I don't see anything in these verses that say a Christian will never/ cannot commit a single act of sin.

A Christian will not ongoingly continually keep on sinning - that is very, very clear from John writes here.

I agree we need to be careful to say - "The Greek says . . ." -- much harm has been done to God's Word by using Greek as a wrong tool. On the other hand, it is a fact that the New Testament was written in Greek, and unless we are going to say that the English translation has precedence over the original words that God inspired throught the NT writers , we do need to be aware of what the Greek tenses and word meanings convey.

 

[Chester]

Johnlove wrote: "Do all those Greek Words have the same meaning now as they did with the first translation? Words change meanings? “Gay”
What makes you believe that you are a better translator than those who have translated the English translations of the written Word?"

Response: The point is not that I think I am a better translator than the KJV (or other) translators. When the KJV translators translated these verses in I John, they did the best they could with the English of their day. Today most of the modern translations are translating those same verses in a way that makes the most sense to the English of today. Most say something like "practice sin" or "keeps on sinning".



I am not wanting to make this into a debate of translations, because in many cases I feel the KJV does a better job than some of the modern translations.

 

[CS1]

A sinner is the demon, and that is scripture.

(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

I'm sorry but I had to laugh please forgive me but a sinner is not a "demon" a sinner is a person who has sinned. a Demon is not a sinner because a demon has NO possibility of Redemption unlike a " sinner no where in the bible have I ever saw that a demon is a sinner in the context of the following scriptures shows a sinner is a person not a demon :

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner

Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
there is no scripture that says a person who is a sinner is a demon.

 

[CS1]

Do all those Greek Words have the same meaning now as they did with the first translation? Words change meanings? “Gay”
What makes you believe that you are a better translator than those who have translated the English translations of the written Word?

Also does your translation change the following scripture?
(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”
Now for once will you answer my question?

you are for getting context a word has a systematic range in which they can mean more than one thing however the authorial intent and what application of the word best fits the verse, passage , chapter, book, and the whole bible.

 

[Willie-T]

A sinner is the demon, and that is scripture.

(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

Are you out of your mind?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Your post is very true however one thing I need to say is that I don't have cancer anymore but my I suffer and deal with the effects of it. I don't want anyone to be confused and think I have cancer right now

Yes, I should have clarified that. Still suffering the effects of it is what I meant..

 

[Chester]

I John 2:4-6 - the one who says - I know God! - but does keep on keeping (Greek present tense) his commandments is a liar.
These verses very clearly go on to say that the one who claims to be a Christian will be living ongoingly as Christ did, and will be keeping his Word, etc. Amen and Amen! (But it doesn't say - the Christian will never commit a single act of sin!)

I John 3:5,6 - Verse 5 is a powerful verse that says that Christ was manifested (came to Earth, died, and rose again) so that the power of sin might be destroyed and so that we do not have to sin! There is now power available to live above sin!

Verse 6 - the one who is ongoingly remaining (Greek present tense) in Him will not ongoingly, constantly be sinning (Greek present tense), the one who is ongoingly sinning (Greek present tense) has not seen or known God.

I don't see anything in these verses that say a Christian will never/ cannot commit a single act of sin.

A Christian will not ongoingly continually keep on sinning - that is very, very clear from John writes here.

I agree we need to be careful to say - "The Greek says . . ." -- much harm has been done to God's Word by using Greek as a wrong tool. On the other hand, it is a fact that the New Testament was written in Greek, and unless we are going to say that the English translation has precedence over the original words that God inspired throught the NT writers , we do need to be aware of what the Greek tenses and word meanings convey.

Where are you JohnLove? Questions about my post? Does it make sense to you?

 

[Sac49]

If when we become a Christian we no longer sin and we becomd sinless then why does the Bible talk about sanctification? Sanctification is a process which takes time. I guess we no longer need sactification. Throw those verses out as i guess we no longer need them.

 

[rdbseekingafterhim]

Attention OP. I have a logic bomb for you. If we are no longer able to sin as you claim then why does the whole new testament tell us how to walk in faith as a Christian. If we become unable to sin then the new testament would include the gospels acts and revelation. GAME SET MATCH CHECK MATE GAME OVER!!!

 

[Johnlove]

I John 2:4-6 - the one who says - I know God! - but does keep on keeping (Greek present tense) his commandments is a liar.
These verses very clearly go on to say that the one who claims to be a Christian will be living ongoingly as Christ did, and will be keeping his Word, etc. Amen and Amen! (But it doesn't say - the Christian will never commit a single act of sin!)

I John 3:5,6 - Verse 5 is a powerful verse that says that Christ was manifested (came to Earth, died, and rose again) so that the power of sin might be destroyed and so that we do not have to sin! There is now power available to live above sin!

Verse 6 - the one who is ongoingly remaining (Greek present tense) in Him will not ongoingly, constantly be sinning (Greek present tense), the one who is ongoingly sinning (Greek present tense) has not seen or known God.

I don't see anything in these verses that say a Christian will never/ cannot commit a single act of sin.

A Christian will not ongoingly continually keep on sinning - that is very, very clear from John writes here.

I agree we need to be careful to say - "The Greek says . . ." -- much harm has been done to God's Word by using Greek as a wrong tool. On the other hand, it is a fact that the New Testament was written in Greek, and unless we are going to say that the English translation has precedence over the original words that God inspired throught the NT writers , we do need to be aware of what the Greek tenses and word meanings convey.

What does your translation say about the following scripture?

(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.” Does your version say Jesus just sinned once in a while?

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.” Now tell me how a sinner can even say they know Jesus, even if one just does not have a life style of sin?

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

John said a Child of God cannot sin. He did not say a Child of God just did not have a lifestyle of sin. A sinner is of the devil, and it only takes one sin for one who has been given the knowledge of the truth to never ever enter the kingdom of God.


(Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira, Peter said they lied to the Holy Spirit, and they will never be forgiven.

 

[Johnlove]

Attention OP. I have a logic bomb for you. If we are no longer able to sin as you claim then why does the whole new testament tell us how to walk in faith as a Christian. If we become unable to sin then the new testament would include the gospels acts and revelation. GAME SET MATCH CHECK MATE GAME OVER!!!

So that is you understanding of the New Testament?

Paul told us how God made it possible for us not to sin, and what Paul said is in the New Testament Scripture. Why don’t you read what he said and try to understand what he said?

(Romans 8:1-4) “The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. God has done what the Law, because of our unspiritual nature, was unable to do. God dealt with sin by sending his own Son in a body as physical as any sinful body, and in that body God condemned sin he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”

 

[Wall]

Attention OP. I have a logic bomb for you. If we are no longer able to sin as you claim then why does the whole new testament tell us how to walk in faith as a Christian. If we become unable to sin then the new testament would include the gospels acts and revelation. GAME SET MATCH CHECK MATE GAME OVER!!!

Yeah

1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Johnlove]

Are you out of your mind?

How did you know? You must have read some scripture, and found out a Spiritual Christian has the mind of Christ. Yes I have the mind of Jesus Christ our Lord and God, and you noticed!

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him? But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

 

[Johnlove]

you are for getting context a word has a systematic range in which they can mean more than one thing however the authorial intent and what application of the word best fits the verse, passage , chapter, book, and the whole bible.

Is that so? Tell me just how all that goes. Like you know just what those scriptures quoted by me are saying, and I have it all wrong? My! My! Are you not the cleaver one? Yes you have found some words that are used to discount what scripture says, and you don’t even attempt to show any proof of what you say.

 

[Johnlove]

Yeah

1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Yes people quote that part of John’s letter, and how they can do so without feeling totally dishonest, I sure don’t understand.

Do you believe John was telling those Children of God who can’t sin, that they need not tell anyone? Do you believe that John was saying they were liars if they shared they no longer sinned?

I don’t believe people, when they quote 1 John 1:8-10 they expect any intelligent person to use that as to believe everyone still sins.

(1 Corinthians 4:4-5) “True, my conscience does not reproach me at all, but that does not prove that I am acquitted: the Lord alone is my judge. There must be no passing of premature judgement. Leave that until the Lord comes: he will light up all that is hidden in the dark and reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts. Then will be the time for each one to have whatever praise he deserves, from God.”

Also the way you are reading John’s Word, it only say if one tells someone they no longer sin they are lying. So you don’t know what John is truly saying at all.


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

(1 John 1: 8-10)[SUP] “[/SUP]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

If one reads the above scripture as you want to read it, then all it says is, if one says: he or she has no sin, then they are liars. Your understanding of the above scripture does not say one no longer sins.

Also rewriting scripture and adding habitually does not make any sense, because John said in the same letter the following scripture.

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”

Jesus did not just keep from habitually sinning. We can’t be in Jesus if we sin at all.

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”

Notice John said anyone who lives in God does not sin. No way can one put habitually sinning in the scripture.

Also Jesus said that he would show himself to those who proved they love him by keeping his Commandments. Just how many of the people that just don’t habitually sin do you think have seen Jesus?