Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Your belief in your own "ability" is what undermines and subverts Christ in you as your only hope of glory. Our relationship with Christ is not that of one and done, now you go get 'r done. He has come to live in us so that He can live through us. You will never be more than a branch, so, be a branch, and stop trying to be the Vine.

"I have been crucified with Christ and 'I' no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

The ability is not my own. I receive it from him via the holy spirit through faith. It is a relationship in which I draw on his understanding, knowledge, wisdom, strength, forgiveness, love, etc in order to do his righteousness.

The difference between what I follow and what you follow is that I believe I can do his righteousness through his spirit, and you believe that you cannot do anything righteous, so yo must believe his spirit does everything through you, while you do nothing. The latter is the delusional world of mystics and gnostics.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A sinner is a sinner because he sins. But once saved the same behaviour is now good.

Actually this is no laughing matter.

When you write something like this it tells me very clearly that you do not most assuredly understand what Jesus has done.

WHo did you quote here? the same thing that was sin pre salvation is now not sin?? What?? I MISSED THIS!

 

[FreeNChrist]

The ability is not my own. I receive it from him via the holy spirit through faith. It is a relationship in which I draw on his understanding, knowledge, wisdom, strength, forgiveness, love, etc in order to do his righteousness.

The difference between what I follow and what you follow is that I believe I can do his righteousness through his spirit, and you believe that you cannot do anything righteous, so yo must believe his spirit does everything through you, while you do nothing. The latter is the delusional world of mystics and gnostics.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13​

It's not your ability at all, that's right. It's His ability and your availability to Him. Apart from Him you can do nothing.

 

[PeterJens]

Agreement of understanding

People claim to have a common understanding, yet deal with someone as if they
are an enemy. That is not a common understanding.

My faith is simple. Sin is a sign of my lack of communion with God.
Righteousness is a sign of my communion with God.

Self condemnation is about lack of self acceptance, which often comes for not
understanding how much God loves you, and how much you hate yourself.

The fact that so many confuse these simple boundaries, give up and just say
Jesus does everything they need to do nothing, is sad.

It is also obvious some are seriously wolves in sheeps clothing whose only intention
is harm. What seems to distinguish His people from the rest is the desire to walk
in His ways. Through all this confusion, if you follow Him, put into practise His love,
reach out with a sincere heart He will guide you.

I do not have an argument to win. Either you follow and are saved, or you do not
and you are lost.

It does not matter if you agree with me or not, I am just testifying to the work
Jesus has done in my heart, and I hope and pray it encourages you.

What is sad is when people condemn effort, when so much of scripture is about
aspiring desiring and doing. None of this is achieved without effort.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for
they will be filled.
Matt 5:6

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2


The inverse or opposite of the above is if you do not carry out Gods commands you do not know Him.
If this is your place, Christ is here to welcome you in and move in your heart, humble yourself,
reach out to Him and He will reach out to you. Amen

 

[FreeNChrist]

What is sad is when people condemn effort, when so much of scripture is about
aspiring desiring and doing. None of this is achieved without effort.

“How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?” Gal 3:3​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not have an argument to win. Either you follow and are saved, or you do not
and you are lost.

No boasting here.. SMH!!

It does not matter if you agree with me or not, I am just testifying to the work
Jesus has done in my heart, and I hope and pray it encourages you.

if this is all it was, There would not be so much heated debate.. It is much more than this, It is you try to tell everyone else what they believe.. Then get mad when they tell you your wrong..

 

[Th0mas]

Ah.... knowing you are a sinner and then responding out of conviction for God to have mercy on you..

is NOT salvation?

I didn't say that a person who judges they are a sinner and them wanting God's mercy is not a part of salvation.

Added to this.. check out Romans 10:9-10, John 3:16 among a ton of other verses!

None of that shows that my judgement has been wrong. If a person has the opportunity to pray how Jesus wants them to pray, Matthew 6, but they choose not to say that prayer as part of their salvation, they would be foolish to say Jesus is Lord, and I believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead, I will be saved.

Luke 6:46

"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

You may look below at part of a Bible and judge that saying the prayer as Jesus commanded, Matthew 6, is part of "is like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

Matthew 7:24

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

You may compare that above with what you may look at below.

Luke 6:

46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like.
48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

Look... I do agree that words in Matthew 6 could be receiving eternal life.. if it is out of conviction on the heart from the Holy Spirit on an unsaved person.

Romans 8:30

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

John 6:44

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

But the example in Matthew 6.. looks to me like a continues daily walk prayer.

John 12:50

I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

 

[PeterJens]

It is you try to tell everyone else what they believe

I tell "everyone", lol.

I am not this stupid to claim everyone believes anything. You do not lie very well EG.

I get "mad". It is you who get mad and dedicate yourself to the impossible.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I tell "everyone", lol.

I am not this stupid to claim everyone believes anything. You do not lie very well EG.

I get "mad". It is you who get mad and dedicate yourself to the impossible.

They get mad at us and accuse us of misrepresenting what they believe when we take what they say at face value and refuse to accept their redefinitions of words that they use to describe what they believe.

 

[PeterJens]

Fruit of contention

When "nothing" is contended over, as if there is an issue, you know someone wants a fight.

How do you know Christ has touched your heart? You warm to His words.

I want to encourage those who just love Jesus. That is where my heart is. Did he want harm
to come to people or was it good news? Was sin the problem and forgiveness the offer?

Was the hope to walk as Jesus walked, with a clean heart, the same inside as outside?

It strikes me my enemies hate this picture, and believe it is a lie.
What interests me is where is the lie? And if there is no lie, why are they not walking
in this? Maybe because they do not accept God is right and they really are sinners,
it is all Gods fault and He will sort it out? I am open and listening.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I tell "everyone", lol.

I am not this stupid to claim everyone believes anything. You do not lie very well EG.

I get "mad". It is you who get mad and dedicate yourself to the impossible.

lol.. This is a man who denys everything,, even though he has been shown over and over how he tries to tell everyone what they believe..

Peter. Give it up..

Its not about me.. its not about you. If a person can not admit things they do.. Then they have lost all respectability

 

[Grandpa]

Agreement of understanding

People claim to have a common understanding, yet deal with someone as if they
are an enemy. That is not a common understanding.

My faith is simple. Sin is a sign of my lack of communion with God.
Righteousness is a sign of my communion with God.

Self condemnation is about lack of self acceptance, which often comes for not
understanding how much God loves you, and how much you hate yourself.

The fact that so many confuse these simple boundaries, give up and just say
Jesus does everything they need to do nothing, is sad.

It is also obvious some are seriously wolves in sheeps clothing whose only intention
is harm. What seems to distinguish His people from the rest is the desire to walk
in His ways. Through all this confusion, if you follow Him, put into practise His love,
reach out with a sincere heart He will guide you.

I do not have an argument to win. Either you follow and are saved, or you do not
and you are lost.

It does not matter if you agree with me or not, I am just testifying to the work
Jesus has done in my heart, and I hope and pray it encourages you.

What is sad is when people condemn effort, when so much of scripture is about
aspiring desiring and doing. None of this is achieved without effort.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for
they will be filled.
Matt 5:6

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2


The inverse or opposite of the above is if you do not carry out Gods commands you do not know Him.
If this is your place, Christ is here to welcome you in and move in your heart, humble yourself,
reach out to Him and He will reach out to you. Amen

Some people have no problem with being truthful to themselves or to others.

The truth is, when I try to be righteous out of my own strength and understanding, I fall short. I always need the Lord Jesus and His Strength in order to be righteous.

So, instead of attempting to condemn others, all I can do is agree that we all need the Lord Jesus Christ.


The big problem with telling people that you walk righteously is what is your definition of righteous? It must not be the definition that the Lord Jesus Christ uses because if it was you would never say that. What we can say is that we walk in the Grace and Protection of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's by faith. None of us can say we are more righteous than another because our righteousness comes from the same place. Not from us, but from God.

So if you want to bring down righteousness to a level where you can attain it by your efforts you have to ask yourself if it is the same righteousness that is required by God. Or do you think all is required is that you just "try your best"? Lots of people think that. But I'm not sure if they read the bible or not.

 

[PeterJens]

Some people have no problem with being truthful to themselves or to others.

The truth is, when I try to be righteous out of my own strength and understanding, I fall short. I always need the Lord Jesus and His Strength in order to be righteous.

So, instead of attempting to condemn others, all I can do is agree that we all need the Lord Jesus Christ.


The big problem with telling people that you walk righteously is what is your definition of righteous? It must not be the definition that the Lord Jesus Christ uses because if it was you would never say that. What we can say is that we walk in the Grace and Protection of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's by faith. None of us can say we are more righteous than another because our righteousness comes from the same place. Not from us, but from God.

So if you want to bring down righteousness to a level where you can attain it by your efforts you have to ask yourself if it is the same righteousness that is required by God. Or do you think all is required is that you just "try your best"? Lots of people think that. But I'm not sure if they read the bible or not.

Grandpa. It is true, as soon as you start to take seriously what is righteousness, being holy,
undefiled, you have to start to ask the question what does this actually mean.

You used the words "your efforts" but you have already gone to far. Jesus used the words
follow, obey, strive, do. These are active commands which require a response, do what,
obey what, strive in what?

Now if I say I will love "...." you find whatever you feel towards that person remains. But
if you start to think about the good things they do, list what you appreciate about them, note
who and what they are, things begin to change. If you match how you would like to be regarded
and start to regard others likewise, love begins to appear.

Too many just approach things is a on off switch when it is so much more.

 

[PeterJens]

lol.. This is a man who denys everything,, even though he has been shown over and over how he tries to tell everyone what they believe..

Peter. Give it up..

Its not about me.. its not about you. If a person can not admit things they do.. Then they have lost all respectability

deny "everything." A lie
tell "everyone", A lie
Give it up - a command but do not know how to comply my master
And this is about you and your feelings towards me - not a good place to be "darling"

Now it is odd on a public forum posting notes, it is not hidden behaviour or the intentions.
I admit to posting the notes and their contents, how is this a sin or a problem, it is the point
of a discussion forum. In your mind this is a crime... weird

 

[PeterJens]

lost all respectability

Oh no, I have lost all respectability, woe is me, how will I regain the respect from
those who are my enemies, who wish I disappear and they can spread their point
view without opposition to everyone and anyone without a counter narrative.

If I have not lost respectibility of my enemies, I am not doing Gods will or preaching
His gospel.

Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
Matt 24:9

Funny thing when being put to death, being worried about respectability.
Just shows you what is truly in someone heart and where their loyalties lie.

 

[Grace777x70]

Don't fall for all the "baiting" and mocking...remember it has a purpose and it is not for Christ. Let's just walk away when this happens. Report things you think are inappropriate and leave it in the mods hands. The Lord will give them the wisdom they need in these affairs. We can trust the Holy Spirit in them to guide them.

All is well!...the Lord is faithful to all of us!

 

[Grandpa]

Grandpa. It is true, as soon as you start to take seriously what is righteousness, being holy,
undefiled, you have to start to ask the question what does this actually mean.

You used the words "your efforts" but you have already gone to far. Jesus used the words
follow, obey, strive, do. These are active commands which require a response, do what,
obey what, strive in what?

Now if I say I will love "...." you find whatever you feel towards that person remains. But
if you start to think about the good things they do, list what you appreciate about them, note
who and what they are, things begin to change. If you match how you would like to be regarded
and start to regard others likewise, love begins to appear.

Too many just approach things is a on off switch when it is so much more.

Did the Lord say just do your best?

No, He didn't. He places Righteousness as a very High Standard.

So High that He says you can't achieve it. He says you need Him to achieve it.

And then you find it is not something you even attain. It is a Gift.


Isn't it weird how people try to work for what is freely given? Trying to deserve the gift. It's ok. No one deserves it.


But no one knows any of this until they strive for their own Righteousness. And then ask for help. But you never will ask for help if you don't try to attain the Righteousness that the Lord defines. And not some watered down righteousness of "doing your best".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol.. This is a man who denys everything,, even though he has been shown over and over how he tries to tell everyone what they believe..

Peter. Give it up..

Its not about me.. its not about you. If a person can not admit things they do.. Then they have lost all respectability

deny "everything." A lie
tell "everyone", A lie
Give it up - a command but do not know how to comply my master
And this is about you and your feelings towards me - not a good place to be "darling"

Now it is odd on a public forum posting notes, it is not hidden behaviour or the intentions.
I admit to posting the notes and their contents, how is this a sin or a problem, it is the point
of a discussion forum. In your mind this is a crime... weird

Here is peter telling HG people what they believe. a few quotes. and this is just today.

The HG group is odd. They claim to be righteous, right living yet continually sin.
They are full of greed and self-indulgence, they do not believe in following justice, mercy(forgiveness) and faithfulness while also condemning those who do.

So they are almost honest pharisees, dirty and lost, yet claiming this is the gospel of truth.
Weird.

HG followers like EG would have you believe Jesus condemns righteous living rather
than as Paul tells Timothy,

So their whole teaching is inbuilt with condemnation and hypocracy, excusing sin as something
they cannot but give in to, because it is their flesh and not them.

So these hypocrites want you to follow in their failure and sin, because they claim that is the
only honest way to follow Christ, because Christ cannot purify and cleanse the heart, so we
can know what holiness is, even though that is exactly what scripture says.

But then lying has never been difficult for them, because they wallow in their sin as a badge
of honour, saying we are just like the world and Jesus saved us, to stay put and wallow some
more.

and I have just begun, I can show much much more.

Peter. Give it up.. here we have 4 posts. all within a matter of about an hour of you telling people what they believe, ..


Don;t be sitting here preaching how righteous you are. when you refuse to acknowledge what you have been doing..

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If it were even possible to lose your salvation (which it is not) and say you were to twist that Hebrews scripture to suggest it supports losing your salvation, then that would suggest there there is another unforgivable sin, meaning there would be two unforgivable sins, which then goes against what the scriptures say.

Because if you truly believe that a believer can lose salvation - that they're doomed - then you're claiming it's unforgivable. The wrong interpretation of the Hebrews scriptures would suggest that believers lose salvation and can no longer be redeemed (unforgivable) but this is wrong.

The doctrine of OSAS denies the faith by denying the words of God, which is denying Jesus Christ the very Word of God. Let me explain.

It is written by Grace you are saved through faith, and also in Romans 5:2 “By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. As it is also written, the children of faith are counted for the seed. And we see in Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

Just as it is written the just shall live by faith, and we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ, which is also faith in the very Word of God. Just as Jesus said Matthew 4:4 “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Just as we are to abide in Christ, and in His words by faith.

And this is where the lies of OSAS doctrine begins to be exposed for what it is, which is not of faith in what Gods words say are true concerning the prophecy of the falling away from the faith.

Not many Christians will argue against salvation not being based on Grace through faith and belief in Jesus Christ. But some believe that faith is not connected or expressed in our own actions or any works on our part. And some even believe one cannot lose that salvation by faith no matter what, leaving the notion wide open that one can sin without any consequence of losing salvation.

This is what Jude warned of in Jude 1:4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

But if you do not abide in the obedience of the faith, but in unbelief, then how can you please God? After all were not the branches of Israel broken off because of unbelief?

Romans 11:20-22 “Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.”

That sure sounds like a warning to abide in faith doesn’t it? For we stand by faith, but some say you cannot fall.

Abiding in that faith means abiding in the faith of Jesus, but also abiding in His words by faith, meaning every God breathed word spoken by the Holy Spirit. But again, the error of OSAS denies the words of God by saying you cannot fall from salvation, which is based on faith. But some will say, well if they fall they were never really saved in the first place. But go back to the definition of what saved means in scripture, which is by grace through faith.

But then they might say, well they were never really born again of the Holy Spirit. But the words of God covers that as well in Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

But many will deny these words are true. They will try to twist it’s meaning by saying it is out of context, or a poor translation, or it’s not directed to us, or it’s not in the original text, or your interpreting the scriptures wrong, blah, blah, blah.

But folks, these verses are a warning for those who turn back, and fall away from the faith.
And those who deny those Holy Spirit inspired words, also deny there is to even be a falling away from the faith. And to deny the words of God as true, which is to deny Jesus Christ. Be not deceived by the doctrines of devils.

1 Timothy 4:1 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

 

[PeterJens]

Don't fall for all the "baiting"...remember it has a purpose and it is not for Christ. Let's just walk away.

The interesting point here Grace7 who is baiting who. Baiting is about not discussing a point
but just stirring up division. I just love the way you slip in "witch-craft" or "anti-christ" or "greed"

It makes me laugh, especially as I have zero belief you know what something is of Christ or not,
based on the dross you happily bring here as if it is a blessing.

I wonder how you will face Christ, because it amazes me the authority you think you have and the
complete lack of wisdom you deliver. Your two lenses have destroyed your soul.