Whats the deal with Catholics?

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May 26, 2016
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Dear VDP
Im posting an article a friend of mine wrote on this subject. Its very good.

I give eight reasons for belief in the Immaculate Conception:1. Mary is revealed to be "full of grace" in Luke 1:28.
2. Mary is revealed to be the fulfillment of the prophetic "Daughter of Zion" of Zech. 2:10; Zeph. 3:14-16; Isaiah 12:1-6, etc.
3. Mary is revealed to be "the beginning of the new creation" in fufillment of the prophecy of Jer. 31:22.
4. Mary is revealed to possess a "blessed state" parallel with Christ's in Luke 1:42.
5. Mary is not just called "blessed" among women, but "more blessed than all women" (including Eve) in Luke 1:42.
6. Mary is revealed to be the spotless "Ark of the Covenant" in Luke 1.
7. Mary is revealed to be the "New Eve" in Luke 1:37-38; John 2:4; 19:26-27; Rev. 12, and elsewhere.
8. Mary is revealed to be free from the pangs of labor in fulfillment of Isaiah 66:7-8.
Here, I will present some snippets from three of these biblical reasons for faith. But first, I must say I am sympathetic to my Protestant friends, and others, who struggle with this teaching of the Catholic Faith. Romans 3:23 says, “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” I John 1:8 adds, “If any man says he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him.” These texts could not be clearer for millions of Protestants: “How could anyone believe Mary was free from all sin in light of these Scriptures? What’s more, Mary herself said, ‘My soul rejoices in God my savior’ in Luke 1:47. She clearly understood herself to be a sinner if she admits to needing a savior.”
The Catholic Answer
Not a few Protestants are surprised to discover the Catholic Church actually agrees that Mary was “saved.” Indeed, Mary needed a savior! However, Mary was “saved” from sin in a most sublime manner. She was given the grace to be “saved” completely from sin so that she never committed even the slightest transgression. The problem here is Protestants tend to emphasize God’s “salvation” almost exclusively to the forgiveness of sins actually committed. However, Sacred Scripture indicates that salvation can also refer to man being protected from sinning before the fact.
Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever (Jude 24-25).
The great Franciscan theologian, Duns Scotus, explained ca. 600 years ago that falling into sin could be likened to a man approaching unaware a massive 20-feet deep ditch. If he falls into the ditch, he would need someone to lower a rope and save him. But if someone were to warn him of the danger ahead resulting in the man not falling into the ditch at all, he would have been saved from falling in the first place. Analogously, Mary was saved from sin by receiving the grace to be preserved from it. But she was still saved.
The Exception to the Rule
But what about “all have sinned,” and “if any man says he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him?” Wouldn’t “all” and/or “any man” include Mary? On the surface, this sounds reasonable. But this way of thinking carried to its logical conclusion would list Jesus Christ in the company of sinners as well. No Christian would dare say that! Yet, no Christian can deny the plain texts of Scripture declaring Christ’s full humanity either. Thus, if one is going to take I John 1:8 in a strict, literal sense, then any man would apply to Jesus as well!
The truth is—and all Christians agree—Jesus Christ was an exception to Romans 3:23 and I John 1:8. And the Bible tells us he was in Hebrews 4:15: “Christ was tempted in all points even as we are and yet he was without sin.” The real question now is: are there any other exceptions to this rule? Yes, there are. In fact, there are millions of them.
First of all, we need to recall that both of these texts—Romans 3:23 and I John 1:8—are dealing with personal rather than original sin. Romans 5:12 will deal with original sin. And there are two exceptions to that general biblical norm as well. But for now, we will simply deal with Romans 3:23 and I John 1:8. I John 1:8 obviously refers to personal sin because in the very next verse, St. John tells us, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins…” We do not confess original sin; we confess personal sins.
The context of Romans 3:23 makes clear that it too refers to personal sin:
None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one. Their throat is an open grave. They use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness (Romans 3:10-14).
Original sin is not something we do; it is something we’ve inherited. Romans chapter three deals with personal sin because it speaks of sins committed by the sinner. With this in mind, consider this: Has a baby in the womb or a child of two ever committed a personal sin? No, they haven’t (see Romans 9:11)! Or, how about the mentally challenged who do not have the use of their intellects and wills? These cannot sin because in order to sin a person has to know the act he is about to perform is sinful while freely engaging his will in carrying it out. Without the proper faculties to enable them to sin, children before the age of accountability and anyone who does not have the use of his intellect and will cannot sin. Right there you have millions of exceptions to Romans 3:23 and I John 1:8.
The question remains: how do we know Mary is an exception to the norm of “all have sinned?” And more specifically, is there biblical support for this claim? Yes, there is. Indeed, there is much biblical support, but in this brief post I shall cite just three examples, among the eight, as I said before, that give us biblical support for this ancient doctrine of the Faith.
1. LUKE 1:28:
And [the angel Gabriel] came to [Mary] and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.”
Many Protestants will insist this text to be little more than a common greeting of the Archangel Gabriel to Mary. “What would this have to do with Mary being without sin?” Yet, the truth is, according to Mary herself, this was no common greeting. The text reveals Mary to have been “greatly troubled at the saying and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be” (Luke 1:29, emphasis added). What was it about this greeting that was so uncommon for Mary to react this way? There are at least two key reasons:
First, according to many biblical scholars as well as Pope St. John Paul II, the angel did more than simply greet Mary. The angel actually communicated a new name or title to her. In Greek, the greeting was kaire, kekaritomene, or “Hail, full of grace.” Generally speaking, when one greeted another with kaire, a name or title would almost be expected to be found in the immediate context. “Hail, king of the Jews” in John 19:3 and “Claudias Lysias, to his Excellency the governor Felix, greeting” (Acts 23:26) are two biblical examples of this. The fact that the angel replaces Mary’s name in the greeting with “full of grace” was anything but common. This would be analogous to me speaking to one of our tech guys at Catholics answers and saying, “Hello, he who fixes computers.” In our culture, I would just be considered weird. But in Hebrew culture, names, and name changes, tell us something that is permanent about the character and calling of the one named. Just recall the name changes of Abram to Abraham (changed from “father” to “father of the multitudes”) in Gen. 17:5, Saray to Sarah (“my princess” to “princess”) in Gen. 17:15, and Jacob to Israel (“supplanter” to “he who prevails with God”) in Gen. 32:28.
In each case, the names reveal something permanent about the one named. Abraham and Sarah transition from being a “father” and “princess” of one family to being “father” and “princess” or “mother” of the entire people of God (see Romans 4:1-18; Is. 51:1-2). They become Patriarch and Matriarch of God’s people forever. Jacob/Israel becomes the Patriarch whose name, “he who prevails with God,” continues forever in the Church, which is called “the Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16). The people of God will forever “prevail with God” in the image of the Patriarch Jacob who was not just named Israel, but he truly became “he who prevails with God.”
An entire tome could be written concerning the significance of God’s revelation of his name in Exodus 3:14-15 as I AM. God revealed to us volumes about his divine nature in and through the revelation of his name—God is pure being with no beginning and no end; he is all perfection, etc.
What’s in a name? A lot according to Scripture!
When you add to this the fact that St. Luke uses the perfect passive participle, kekaritomene, as his “name” for Mary, we get deeper insight into the meaning of Mary’s new name. This word literally means “she who has been graced” in a completed sense. This verbal adjective, “graced,” is not just describing a simple past action. Greek has the aorist tense for that. The perfect tense is used to indicate that an action has been completed in the past resulting in a present state of being. That’s Mary’s name! So what does it tell us about Mary? Well, the average Christian is not completed in grace and in a permanent sense (see Phil. 3:8-12). But according to the angel, Mary is. You and I sin, not because of grace, but because of a lack of grace, or a lack of our cooperation with grace, in our lives. This greeting of the angel is one clue into the unique character and calling of the Mother of God.
Objection!
One objection to the above is rooted in Eph. 2:8-9. Here, St. Paul uses the perfect tense and passive voice when he says, “For by grace you have been saved…” Why wouldn’t we then conclude all Christians are complete in salvation for all time? There seems to be an inconsistency in usage here.
Actually, the Catholic Church understands that Christians are completed in grace when they are baptized. In context, St. Paul is speaking about the initial grace of salvation in Ephesians two. The verses leading up to Eph. 2:8-9, make this clear:
… we all lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath…even when we were dead in trespasses and sins…(by grace you have been saved)” (vss. 3-5).
But there is no indication here, as there is with Mary, that the Christian is going to stay that way. In other words, Eph. 2:8-9 does not confer a name.
In fact, because of original sin, we can guarantee that though we are certainly perfected in grace through baptism, ordinarily speaking, we will not stay that way after we are baptized; that is, if we live for very long afterward (see I John 1:8)! There may be times in the lives of Christians when they are completed or perfected in grace temporarily. For example, after going to confession or receiving the Eucharist well-disposed. We let God, of course, be the judge of this, not us, as St. Paul tells us in I Cor. 4:3-4:
I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted (Gr.—justified). It is the Lord who judges me.
But only Mary is given the name “full of grace” and in the perfect tense indicating that this permanent state of Mary was completed.
2. An Ancient Prophecy—Genesis 3:15:
Genesis 3:15 is often referred to by biblical scholars as the Protoevangelium. It is a sort of “gospel” before “the gospel.” This little text contains in very few words God’s plan of salvation which would be both revealed and realized in the person of Jesus Christ. Yet, when one reads the text, one cannot help but note that this prophetic woman seems to have what could be termed almost a disturbing prominence and importance in God’s providential plan:
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.
Not only do we have the Virgin Birth here implied because the text says the Messiah would be born of “the seed of the woman” (the “seed” is normally of the man), but notice “the woman” is not included as “the seed” of the devil. It seems that both the woman and her seed are in opposition to and therefore not under the dominion of the devil and “his seed,” i.e., all who have original sin and are “by nature children of wrath” as St. Paul puts it in Eph. 2:3. Here, we have in seed form (pun intended), the fact that the woman—Mary—would be without sin, especially original sin, just as her Son—the Messiah—would be. The emphasis on Mary is truly remarkable in that the future Messiah was only mentioned in relation to her. There can be little doubt that a parallel is being drawn between Jesus and Mary and their absolute opposition to the devil.
3. Mary, Ark of the Covenant:
The Old Testament ark of the Covenant was a true icon of the sacred. It was a picture of the purity and holiness God fittingly demands of those objects and/or persons most closely associated with himself and the plan of salvation. Because it would contain the very presence of God symbolized by three types of the coming Messiah—the manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s staff—it had to be most pure and untouched by sinful man (see II Sam. 6:1-9; Exodus 25:10ff; Numbers 4:15; Heb. 9:4).
In the New Testament, the new and true Ark would not be an inanimate object, but a person—the Blessed Mother. How much more pure would the new and true Ark be when we consider the old ark was a mere “shadow” in relation to it (see Heb. 10:1)? This image of Mary as the Ark of the Covenant is an indicator that Mary would fittingly be free from all contagion of sin in order for her to be a worthy vessel to bear God in her womb. And most importantly, just as the Old Covenant ark was pristine from the moment it was constructed with explicit divine instructions in Exodus 25, so would Mary be most pure from the moment of her conception. God, in a sense, prepared his own dwelling place in both the Old and New Testaments.
In Behold Your Mother, there is much more that I say not only about these three above biblical reasons for the Immaculate Conception, but I give you five more reasons as well. There is only so much I can do in a brief blog post. But if you would like to dive deeper, click here.
[HR][/HR]

Tim Staples is Director of Apologetics and Evangelization here at Catholic Answers, but he was not always Catholic. Tim was raised a Southern Baptist. Although he fell away from the faith of his childhood, Tim came back to faith in Christ during his late teen years through the witness of Christian...




If you ever stop twisting the scriptures and if you knew the Bible, you would know that Jesus was the first man of the new creation,
(The first to be born again ).
And you would know that all the disciples that were in the room when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into them, we're the first humans of the new creation.
So what's all this nonsense about Mary being the beginning of the new creation? ??.

You are showing your Biblical ignorance AGAIN.
 
May 26, 2016
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The informal discussions of Jesus and the apostles are dynamically and organically related to Tradition and Scripture
In a single night of discussion, Jesus—or Paul, or other apostles passing along what they learned from our Lord—could easily have spoken more words than we have in the entire New Testament. It is implausible to think none of that had any effect on the subsequent teaching of these same apostles and disciples. One can remember encounters with extraordinary people for a lifetime—at least the main ideas, if not all particulars. Here are several examples of life-changing encounters with the apostle Paul, as a result of his vigorously sharing the gospel and apostolic Tradition with his hearers, at the greatest length (not merely citing Bible verses or passing out Old Testaments):
Acts 17:1–4: Now when they had passed through Amphip’olis and Apollo’nia, they came to Thessaloni’ca, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ." And some of them were persuaded, and joined Paul and Silas; as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.
Acts 17:17: So he argued in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the market place every day with those who chanced to be there (cf. 18:4, 19).
Acts 19:8–10: And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, arguing and pleading about the kingdom of God; but when some were stubborn and disbelieved, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them, taking the disciples with him, and argued daily in the hall of Tyran’nus. This continued for two years, so that all the residents of Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks.
15. The Bible never says that oral tradition would cease
Protestants will often acknowledge, when pressed, that authoritative oral teachings existed before Scripture was compiled, but then are quick to add that the written Bible obviated the need for them (and indeed, sola scriptura holds this by definition), so they ceased. Yet, the Bible says no such thing. It can’t be found anywhere. Thus, the Protestant notion of "no tradition after Scripture" is itself a false "tradition of men."
16. The New Testament frequently cites Deuterocanonical books
Since Protestants consider the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament (which they term the "Apocrypha") to be non-inspired and thus not part of the Bible, to cite them is, from their perspective, to cite an extra-biblical tradition. Yet, from Jesus and the New Testament writer we find a multitude of allusions to and citations of the deuterocanonical books. Here is a selection of examples from just the Gospel of Matthew:
Matthew 4:4 (cites Wisdom 16:26)
Matthew 4:15 (1 Maccabees 5:15)
Matthew 5:18 (Baruch 4:1)
Matthew 5:28 (Sirach 9:8)
Matthew 5:4 (Sirach 48:24)
Matthew 6:7 (Sirach 7:14)
Matthew 6:9 (Sirach 23:1, 4)
Matthew 6:10 (1 Maccabees 3:60)
Matthew 6:12 (Sirach 28:2)
Matthew 6:13 (Sirach 33:1)
Matthew 6:20 (Sirach 29:10–12)
Matthew 7:12 (Tobit 4:15; Sirach 31:15)
Matthew 7:16 (Sirach 27:6)
Matthew 8:11 (Baruch 4:37)
Matthew 9:36 (Judith 11:19)
Matthew 10:16 (Sirach 13:17)
Matthew 11:14 (Sirach 48:1–10)
Matthew 11:29 (Sirach 6:23–31; 51:26–27)
Matthew 12:4 (2 Maccabees 10:3)
Matthew 13:44 (Sirach 20:30–31)
Matthew 16:18 (Wisdom 16:13)
Matthew 16:27 (Sirach 35:18–19)
Matthew 17:11 (Sirach 48:10)
Matthew 18:10 (Tobit 12:15)
Matthew 23:38 (Tobit 14:4)
Matthew 27:24 (Susanna 1:46; Daniel 13:46 in Catholic bibles)
Matthew 27:43 (Wisdom 2:12–22)



The Biblical traditions, written or spoken, are now recorded in the Bible.
The catholics traditions contradict the Bible.
Where would the catholics get their traditions from???, Certainly not from the Apostles or the Bible.

The answer is, they come from the devil.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Dear Mail maiden,
My time is a bit limited but I will answer you the best I can. I guess if you say Scripture teaches we are saved through faith "apart from any additions, that would mean the Bible would state that. St Paul quite often "qualifies" the meaning of faith. Let me explain what I mean.
,5 Through him we have received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith, Rom 1:5
The "obedience of faith" does not mean that faith is defined as obedience/works or that we are saved by obedience/works which follows saving faith in Christ. Although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of coming to faith in Christ as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel” (Romans 10:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR or UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR or UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). In Romans 1:5, Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced "enough" obedience. We have access by FAITH into GRACE.. (Romans 5:2) not faith “and obedience.” We are saved through faith first, then "unto" obedience (good works). Don't get the cart before the horse.

First' Lets be clear, the Catholic Church teaches we are saved by faith. period.
The Catholic Church teaches we are saved by faith AND good works.

No good works can earn our salvation.
True, yet the Catholic Church still teaches that good works along with faith are the basis for receiving salvation.

To get a good explanation of what the Church teaches you can always check the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Its free and on line. That way you can get an accurate idea of what the Church actually teaches. So lets look at what The CCC says about faith.

1814 Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us, and that Holy Church proposes for our belief, because he is truth itself. By faith “man freely commits his entire self to God.” For this reason the believer seeks to know and do God’s will. “The righteous shall live by faith.” Living faith “work through charity.” (506)
1815 The gift of faith remains in one who has not sinned against it. But “faith apart from works is dead”: when it is deprived of hope and love, faith does not fully unite the believer to Christ and does not make him a living member of his Body.
Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 446). Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference.

Second, what does the CCC say about earning salvation through good works
MERIT: The reward which God promises and gives to those who love him and by his grace perform good works. One cannot “merit” justification or eternal life, which are the free gift of God; the source of any merit we have before God is due to the grace of Christ in us (2006).
Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 888). Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference.
Sugar coated double talk.

Ok so how does "good works fit into the salvation process?
Salvation process? Justification is not a process but ongoing Sanctification is. Good works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it.

First lets go back and look at Eph 2:8-11
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
New American Bible. (2011). (Revised Edition, Eph 2:8).
St Paul is speaking about our state of salvation prior to justification. Nothing we can do cane "earn our salvation i.e put God under obligation to "pay" us for our good works. Even our faith is given to us by God, ( lest we could boast)
For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus
New American Bible. (2011). (Revised Edition, Eph 2:10). Washington, DC: .
Here St Paul is talking about "justification Proper. " That is the moment we are "justified, made righteous, "saved". ( notice it does not say we are 'declared Justified but we are "created". (We become what God declares) this happens at baptism. created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.
New American Bible. (2011). (Revised Edition, Eph 2:10).
More sugar coated double talk and now you had "added" the work of baptism (among other works) to salvation through faith.

Eph 2:8-11 is the best example of the Catholic understanding of salvation.
I hear Catholics interpret Ephesians 2:8,9 more like this - For by grace, you have been saved through faith "infused with good works" just not works of the law. All of this sugar coated double talk still comes out to salvation by works.

Now , let's look at this thing called faith. As we have seen, the Catholic Church does not teach that we can "earn our salvation.
Yet Catholics still have a list of works they say must be accomplished before one is saved. That would be earning it (to one degree or the other).

We also know that the term "faith Alone" is only found in James 2
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? Jas 2:14
So obviously faith without works cannot save. Plain and simple There it is in black and white
James is talking about a dead faith that remains "alone" (barren of works) which is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith. Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation and not in works (Ephesians 2:8,9).

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

*In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *Please listen closely - James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

The term pistis is used in the Bible in a number of different senses, ranging from intellectual belief (Romans 14:22
, 23
, James 2:19
), to assurance (Acts 17:31
), and even to trustworthiness or reliability (Romans 3:3
, Titus 2:10
). Of key importance is Galatians 5:6
, which refers to “faith working by charity.” In Catholic theology, this is what is known as fides formata or “faith formed by charity.” The alternative to formed faith is fides informis or “faith unformed by charity.” This is the kind of faith described in James 2:19
, for example.
Whether a Catholic rejects the idea of justification by faith alone depends on what sense the term “faith” is being used in. If it is being used to refer to unformed faith then a Catholic rejects the idea of justification by faith alone (which is the point James is making in James 2:19
, as every non-antinomian Evangelical agrees; one is not justified by intellectual belief alone).
However, if the term “faith” is being used to refer to faith formed by charity then the Catholic does not have to condemn the idea of justification by faith alone. In fact, in traditional works of Catholic theology, one regularly encounters the statement that formed faith is justifying faith. If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period.
Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity. The word translated believe is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ)." The word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19 or also include trust and reliance in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31.

The fact “faith” is normally used by Catholics to refer to intellectual assent (as in Romans 14:22-23
, 1 Corinthians 13:13
, and James 2:14-26
) is one reason Catholics do not use the “faith alone” formula even though they agree with what (better) Protestants mean by it. The formula runs counter to the historic meaning of the term “faith.”
The other reason is that, frankly, the formula itself (though not what it is used to express) is flatly unbiblical. The phrase “faith alone” (Greek, pisteos monon), occurs exactly once in the Bible, and there it is rejected:
“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (Jas. 2:24
)”​
Yet James is describing an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" (barren of works) in James 2:14 which is not the same as a living faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation and results in producing good works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

First, the Romans 14 sense of the term pistis is frankly the more common in the New Testament. It is much harder to think of passages which demand that pistis mean “faith formed by charity” than it is to think of passages which demand that pistis mean “intellectual belief.” In fact, even in Galatians 5:6
itself, Paul has to specify that it is faith formed by charity that he is talking about, suggesting that this is not the normal use of the term in his day.
Faith works through love because God has poured out His love in the hearts of believers through the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5). Faith working through love does not mean we are saved by works of charity.

Thus the Catholic Church normally expresses the core essences of these virtues like this:
Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us . . . because he is truth itself. (CCC 1814)
Hope is the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ’s promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit. (CCC 1817)
Charity is the theological virtue by which we love God above all things for his own sake, and our neighbor as ourselves for the love of God. (CCC 1822)
In common Catholic usage, faith is thus unconditional belief in what God says, hope is unconditional trust in God, and charity is unconditional love for God. When we are justified, God places all three of these virtues in our hearts. These virtues are given to each of the justified, even though our outward actions do not always reflect them because of the fallen nature we still possess. Thus a person may still have the virtue of faith even if momentarily tempted by doubt, a person may still have the virtue of trust even if scared or tempted by despair, and a person may still have the virtue of charity even if he is often selfish. Only a direct, grave violation (mortal sin against) of one of the virtues destroys the virtue.
So what is this mortal sin? What did Jesus say about those who will not be condemned and those who will be condemned in John 3:18? What is the dividing line?

As our sanctification progresses, these virtues within us are strengthened by God and we are able to more easily exercise faith, more easily exercise trust, and more easily exercise love. Performing acts of faith, hope, and charity becomes easier as we grow in the Christian life (note the great difficulty new converts often experience in these areas compared to those who have attained a measure of spiritual maturity).
It's called ongoing sanctification.
 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
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The problem DeaconMike is we all are full of Grace. Grace is a standing with God. Grace is from God. Grace is not being sinless like the Corrupted Catholics teach.

This is the problem with the Catholics. They love to twist the Scriptures.

Where in the Scriptures does God say full of Grace means being sinless??? The reason is the Corrupted Catholics actually believe Grace is a physical object that fills up a person to the point there is no more room for sins.

So one has to ask, what god are the Catholics following? Not the God of the Scriptures. But the god of the World. This is why Corrupted Catholics see nothing wrong with deceiving others into believing Mary is a god.

The scriptures say God was without sin. The Corrupted Catholics say Mary was without sin.
The scriptures say God can hear our Prayers to Him. The Corrupted Catholics say Mary can hear Prayers to her.
The scriptures say God can answer our Prayers to Him. The Corrupted Catholics say Mary can answer our Prayers to her.
The scriptures say we go through Jesus to reach the Father. The Corrupted Catholics say we go through Mary to reach Jesus.

The Corrupted Catholics have walked away from God to serve and Worship Mary as their god. In their eyes Mary is equal to God.

May God have mercy on your soul DeaconMike.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Wow, great answers DeaconMike. i wont be returning to the RCC anytime soon but you gave some excellent answers. Well thought out and backed by scripture. again imho not the correct interpretation of scripture but impressive anyway. Thank you for taking the time and not allowing yourself to become mired in unseemly attacks. I am not sure why so many here have such unfettered hatred for the RCC but please accept my apologies for them. If we would spend more time in adult conversation and spend less time on juvenile mud slinging this would be a much better place. I too often fall victim to my emotions, I will strive to do better in the future. Shalom.
Dear FISnookman
Your very welcome
There is a website ministry for Protestant ministers who become Catholic. It's called :"the coming home network" Marcus Grodi a former Preyspterian pastor founded it. You should be able to find it on line if your interest gets the best of you
Gods blessings
 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
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I know personally many so called Christian ministers giving up God to enter into the Catholic Church. This is just another sign of us entering into the End Times when Catholics will out and out proclaim their worship of Satan.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Dear Mail Maiden
Sounds like your confused and in a panic. Relax. I'm not judging you. St Paul " qualifies faith" with the " obedience of Faith Rom 2 or "faith working through charity" or " love.
This means the " quality " of faith includes hope and charity. That is why St James says faith without works cannot save you. Because St Paul if refering to this definition of faith.
As I said before of key importance is Gal 5:6 which refers to faith working in charity. In Catholic theology this is what is known as fides formata The alternative is fides informis or " unformed faith"
Faith working in obedience means we must keep the commandments love our neighbor so forth. "works for Catholics mean the " obedience of faith
Or faith hope and charity.
The Catholic Church as I said before makes very clear we cannt earn eternal life buy putting God under obligation to pay us. Salvation is by grace through faith.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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The Biblical traditions, written or spoken, are now recorded in the Bible.
The catholics traditions contradict the Bible.
Where would the catholics get their traditions from???, Certainly not from the Apostles or the Bible.

The answer is, they come from the devil.
Dear God4me
The problem with thst argument which I pointed out is nowhere in Sacred Scripture does it State Oral Tradion would end. The idea that Sacred Tradtion ended when the bible was written is therefore a tradition of men.
Peace
 
Jul 8, 2016
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The problem DeaconMike is we all are full of Grace. Grace is a standing with God. Grace is from God. Grace is not being sinless like the Corrupted Catholics teach.

This is the problem with the Catholics. They love to twist the Scriptures.

Where in the Scriptures does God say full of Grace means being sinless??? The reason is the Corrupted Catholics actually believe Grace is a physical object that fills up a person to the point there is no more room for sins.

So one has to ask, what god are the Catholics following? Not the God of the Scriptures. But the god of the World. This is why Corrupted Catholics see nothing wrong with deceiving others into believing Mary is a god.

The scriptures say God was without sin. The Corrupted Catholics say Mary was without sin.
The scriptures say God can hear our Prayers to Him. The Corrupted Catholics say Mary can hear Prayers to her.
The scriptures say God can answer our Prayers to Him. The Corrupted Catholics say Mary can answer our Prayers to her.
The scriptures say we go through Jesus to reach the Father. The Corrupted Catholics say we go through Mary to reach Jesus.

The Corrupted Catholics have walked away from God to serve and Worship Mary as their god. In their eyes Mary is equal to God.

May God have mercy on your soul DeaconMike.
Dear VDP
You are certainly right we are all filled with God's grace. The difference with Mary is she was "preserved from the stain of original sin". In other words Mary needed a savior like all of us. We are saved , going from the old man to the new man through the waters of bsptism Rom 6. Mary at the time of conception was "preserved " from thst stain.
Mary just got " saved" a little early".
St Luke uses the perfect passive participle kekaritomene as his "name for Mary.
This word literally means " she who has been graced" in a completed sense. This verbal adjective " graced" is not just describing a simple past action. Gr has another tense for that. The perfect tense is used to intdicate thst an action has been completed in grace and in a present sense.
So thst tells us thst the average Christian is not completed in grace. In a permanent sense. But accordance to the angel Mary is. You and I sin not because of grace but the lack of grace. Or the lack of cooperation of that grace. This greeting of the angel is one clue into the unique character and calling. Of the Mother of God Theotokos and in the perfect tense indicating that this permanent state of Mary www completed
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God4me
The problem with thst argument which I pointed out is nowhere in Sacred Scripture does it State Oral Tradion would end. The idea that Sacred Tradtion ended when the bible was written is therefore a tradition of men.
Peace


The Bible doesn't say oral tradition will end, As we [Christians] have to keep teaching [Speaking] the BIBLICAL traditions, [Which are now recorded in the scriptures].
The Bible doesn't mention any of the Catholic traditions, So why do teach them??.
God has said, if you ADD to His word, Then you are arguing with Him, and are found to be a liar.
Doesn't it bother you to know you are arguing with God, and He calls you a liar?.

Why did you call your website, "Coming home", Instead of "Leaving home"??.
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear VDP
You are certainly right we are all filled with God's grace. The difference with Mary is she was "preserved from the stain of original sin". In other words Mary needed a savior like all of us. We are saved , going from the old man to the new man through the waters of bsptism Rom 6. Mary at the time of conception was "preserved " from thst stain.
Mary just got " saved" a little early".
St Luke uses the perfect passive participle kekaritomene as his "name for Mary.
This word literally means " she who has been graced" in a completed sense. This verbal adjective " graced" is not just describing a simple past action. Gr has another tense for that. The perfect tense is used to intdicate thst an action has been completed in grace and in a present sense.
So thst tells us thst the average Christian is not completed in grace. In a permanent sense. But accordance to the angel Mary is. You and I sin not because of grace but the lack of grace. Or the lack of cooperation of that grace. This greeting of the angel is one clue into the unique character and calling. Of the Mother of God Theotokos and in the perfect tense indicating that this permanent state of Mary www completed


The Bible doesn't say that Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin,
or she was preserved from he conception, DOES IT?

Either God is telling lies, or the Catholics are, Because God said, "ALL HAVE SINNED", Which includes Mary as a grown woman.

The Greek Bible text says Mary had to find favour, and be made acceptable, because she wasn't worthy being a sinner.

The Catholic Mary, Isn't the Biblical Mary.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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The Bible doesn't say that Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin,
or she was preserved from he conception, DOES IT?

Either God is telling lies, or the Catholics are, Because God said, "ALL HAVE SINNED", Which includes Mary as a grown woman.

The Greek Bible text says Mary had to find favour, and be made acceptable, because she wasn't worthy being a sinner.

The Catholic Mary, Isn't the Biblical Mary.
Dear God4me

You wanted the Gr. The Gr in Sacred Scripture is Gods word. You have a problem with that take it up with Jesus. Remember Jewish boys love their mother. I would be careful.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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The Bible doesn't say that Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin,
or she was preserved from he conception, DOES IT?

Either God is telling lies, or the Catholics are, Because God said, "ALL HAVE SINNED", Which includes Mary as a grown woman.

The Greek Bible text says Mary had to find favour, and be made acceptable, because she wasn't worthy being a sinner.

The Catholic Mary, Isn't the Biblical Mary.
Dear God4 Me

I broke down the Gr for you. The Gr literally says " you who have been graced". The perfect tense is used to indicate that an action has been completed
"Graced" verbal adjective. Not just describes a simple past action. Gr has the aorist tense for that .

St Luke uses a perfect passive participle.

I will give more on this later this evening when I get some time.
Gods blessings to you
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Dear God4 me
Good. In glad to see you are coming around. Oral Sacred Tradtion does not end because the NT came together. So much for Sola Scriptura
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God4me

You wanted the Gr. The Gr in Sacred Scripture is Gods word. You have a problem with that take it up with Jesus. Remember Jewish boys love their mother. I would be careful.

I have shown you what the Greek says about Mary.
Either God is mistaken, or the Catholics tell porkies.
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God4 Me

I broke down the Gr for you. The Gr literally says " you who have been graced". The perfect tense is used to indicate that an action has been completed
"Graced" verbal adjective. Not just describes a simple past action. Gr has the aorist tense for that .

St Luke uses a perfect passive participle.

I will give more on this later this evening when I get some time.
Gods blessings to you

I told you that Mary had to find favour with God because she was a sinner.
The tense has nothing to do with the fact that Mary was a sinner who needed God's grace.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Dear God4me
I don't believe you have. I just don't think you are prepared for these responses. There isn't a question or scriptural charge against the faith that tgd Church had not dealt with. Just need to know where to look.
We've been doing this along time.
Peace
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God4 me
Good. In glad to see you are coming around. Oral Sacred Tradtion does not end because the NT came together. So much for Sola Scriptura
I'm not coming round to the Catholics
" Sacres traditions ".
I mean the Biblical traditions, which are now recorded in the Bible.
We still speak, preach/teach the Bible.
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God4me
I don't believe you have. I just don't think you are prepared for these responses. There isn't a question or scriptural charge against the faith that tgd Church had not dealt with. Just need to know where to look.
We've been doing this along time.
Peace
You have to believe your nonsense, because you know the truth proves you wrong.