Reproving the world of sin

[followjesus]

Salvation is conditional in Jesus Christ? Saved by grace through faith in Christ doesn't jive with you? You don't judge? You're a hoot, and a very misguided one at that. Salvation conditional; give me a break.

" it is not those who call me Lord Lord who will be saved, but only those who do the will of God. I will show you what He is Like who hears my words and puts them into practice, He is Like a wise man who built His house on the rock, when the storms come, His house stood strong, BUT the one who comes to me and hears my word and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built on sand with no foundation, the waters rose and the winds came, and His house fell with a great crash and its destruction was complete."


these are you Lords words. do you see a difference in the one who heard it and did it, as opposed to the one who heard and refused to do? The condition is to give Jesus your whole heart, yeah that's the condition upon salvation. if you are not sincere with God, you have zero. when you read the word and see " if you forgive , then I will forgive, if you do not, I will not" do you see no condition upon that? these are Jesus words again, your Lord. do you believe what Jesus Christ says, or a doctrine that tells you He is wrong about salvation?

 

[followjesus]

And the will of the Father is to believe in Jesus.

the will of God is that you are sanctified and obey His commands
1 thessalonians 4:3-8"3It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control your own body[SUP]a[/SUP] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit."


that's Gods will to be sanctified, holy, rigthteous. that's the whole center of Gods will

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

In your first 2 posts of the OP you posted each use of the word elegchō. However, none of those verses state the Holy Spirit reproves believers of sin.


The verses show men/women reprove other men/women; the conscience reproves; light reproves; the Word of God reproves; the Father reproves His children; the law reproves.

Clearly you do not understand the ministry of the Holy Spirit in all those things I listed, as the Holy Spirit speaks through men to reprove other believers and non believers. By what Spirit do you believe the prophets, apostles, and all the anointed saints spoke by to teach and reprove the early Church? Also all those things I listed have the Spirit of God working in them. God is Spirit, God's words are Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit.

Reproving the darkness…

“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [SUP]G1651[/SUP] them.” (Eph 5:11)

“But all things that are reproved [SUP]G1651[/SUP] are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” (Eph 5:13)

“Them that sin rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] before all, that others also may fear.” (1 Tim. 5:20)

“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, [SUP]G1651[/SUP] rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2 Tim 4:2)

“Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince [SUP]G1651[/SUP] the gainsayers.” (Tit 1:9)

“This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;” (Tit 1:13)
“These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] with all authority. Let no man despise thee.” (Tit 2:15)

The law also reproves….
“But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced [SUP]G1651[/SUP] of the law as transgressors.” (Jas 2:9)

And the Lord also reproves believers ……

“And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked [SUP]G1651[/SUP] of him:” (Heb 12:5)
“As many as I love, I rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” (Rev. 3:9)

Now going back to this concept of how the Light reproves the darkness = sinful behavior

God is Light ….. 1 John 1:5 God’s Word is Light…. John 8:12

God’s laws and commandments are light….Proverbs 6:23

Jesus' disciples who have the Holy Spirit in them are light….Matthew 5:14

And the gospel message ministered by the Holy Spirit is also light….2 Corinthians 4:4

By the above things that are Light, and are of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, all these will reprove the world, either believers or unbelievers of its darkness.

 

[Utah]

I have never said anything like that. I'm telling you this : Go learn the 4 gospels ALL of them and ask yourself "what id the Lord saying to His people?" what you will find, is God the Father giving His commandments perfected in Grace through Jesus Christ our only sovereign and Lord. Our only foundation of doctrine is the commands of Jesus, which when learned and applied are Love for one another. we learn How to Love as He Loved us, by " taking His yoke upon ourselves and lerning from Him, for he is Gentle and huimble in heart"

this does not translate nor do pauls writings as there are no commandments that lead to eternal Life, and no choice for the person. it does not mean it will be easy or its just gonna happen, we give our full allegiance our full belief to Jesus the one taught in His own words and ways.

like you folks always do, you take truth and accept it as judgement on you or how you are living. again I have noi clue Utah, how you live, how you treat others in your life, all I know of YOU is what I have read in these forums. and never one time Have I pretended to know if you live in disobedience. you are reacting to the teaching of the gospel. if Jesus says this

and when you stand praying, forgive any greivances you have SO THAT your father may orgive you your sins. and he says " for if you forgive others when they sin against you, your Father in heaven will forgive you your sins. if you do not forgive others, your heavely Father will not forgive you your sins."

and yes Jesus clearly said and taught this, then what idea or thought will ever take His authority away? there is a clear condition taught. be merciful and you will receive mercy, if you do not, you will not receive mercy ( parable of the unforgiving debtor) you will receive wrath. Jesus died and rose, with all authority on earth and also in heaven, He says clearly " go to all people and teach everything I taught you, teach them to obey my commands" so why or how is someone who is saying to others " obey Jesus" learn Jesus" follow Jesus" He is the only way" Jesus is full of Grace ans truth" Hes trhe Lord" look Jesus says you must do these things he is teaching ect.....how is this person somehow a "heretic"? it Jesus and what Jesus taught His followers to do, and to teach others to do. there is no argument against this. why ? because I said it in no way does it matter if I say it, isat says it, pilgrim, you, grace 777 it doesn't matter who is saying something, it matters if it is the Truth that is written in Gods word. clearly, Jesus knew the truth, taught the truth, was the truth. I am not against Grace it is found in the gospel to save souls from sin and death. you were saved by Grace to learn Jesus and follow Him as one follows their Lord.

More arrogance from you, telling me to learn the Gospels, of which I've been reading and living out for more than four decades. I both down and sleep in peace, for the Lord my God is with me.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

The grace that comes to us by Jesus Christ is for obedience of the faith so one coming to him (as he says) and doing what he says would be (together) as building on a rock (me and my words). The one hearing and not doing is building upon the earth or sand.

 

[Utah]

You will have to quote what you are talking about, Jesus even says to his accusers

John 18:23 Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?

I will stay with Jesus on this also

I will quote Jesus all you want. Which verses regarding salvation would you like? The Beatitudes? The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus? The Thief on the Cross? Oh wait, I know, how about, "forgive them Father for they know not what they do." Silly me, there's no love in any of those stories, just the Law and the consequences for not being perfect. Oops, forgot.

 

[followjesus]

Read:

Twisting words again, are we?

The point IS, you can't separate Christ from the Word for they are one & the same. We are saved by Christ & we can be condemned to destruction by Christ. Jesus says you can lose your salvation, so then you can.

amen Jesus is the One who Knows all this stuff we constantly debate. I cant imagine How he feels looking upon His Church who cant even agree that He is the one we are suppose to Hold up and follow with all our heart. this debate rally doesn't even exist to a Christian, of Coarse Jesus id the Lord, of coarse His words are the ones we seek after and cling to, Hes Jesus the Christ. His words are spirit and Life, they are eternal they will never pass away, he is the only one who is given alol authority, the only one God spoke from heaven and said " This is my Son, Listen to Him" the entire Bible says go to Jesus He is the Lord and savior. He is the Word of the Living God.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

the will of God is that you are sanctified and obey His commands
1 thessalonians 4:3-8"3It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control your own body[SUP]a[/SUP] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit."


that's Gods will to be sanctified, holy, rigthteous. that's the whole center of Gods will

Definately, they all agree together in that same thing also

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators,nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Jesus said,

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And the will of the Father is to abstain from the same

1 Thes 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification,that ye should abstain from fornication:

Start it with this one even seeing this shows what we were

1 Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

1 Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; withsuch an one no not to eat.

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without?
do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

You could quote only the words of God and it would never matter, the word of God is often despised its just redirected at the messengers of the same. Paul speaks of not shunning to decalre the full counsel of God.

 

[Utah]

" it is not those who call me Lord Lord who will be saved, but only those who do the will of God. I will show you what He is Like who hears my words and puts them into practice, He is Like a wise man who built His house on the rock, when the storms come, His house stood strong, BUT the one who comes to me and hears my word and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built on sand with no foundation, the waters rose and the winds came, and His house fell with a great crash and its destruction was complete."


these are you Lords words. do you see a difference in the one who heard it and did it, as opposed to the one who heard and refused to do? The condition is to give Jesus your whole heart, yeah that's the condition upon salvation. if you are not sincere with God, you have zero. when you read the word and see " if you forgive , then I will forgive, if you do not, I will not" do you see no condition upon that? these are Jesus words again, your Lord. do you believe what Jesus Christ says, or a doctrine that tells you He is wrong about salvation?

And the will of God is for us to believe in His Son Jesus. To love God with all our heart mind and soul is to believe in Jesus and give thanks and praise to God for the free, irrevocable gift of salvation that is in Jesus.

 

[followjesus]

I will quote Jesus all you want. Which verses regarding salvation would you like? The Beatitudes? The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus? The Thief on the Cross? Oh wait, I know, how about, "forgive them Father for they know not what they do." Silly me, there's no love in any of those stories, just the Law and the consequences for not being perfect. Oops, forgot.

Utah, if Jesus said that its not enough to say it, we must do it.....why is that an issue for you? its Jesus Christ, the same who gave His life for you, and He is the one who said it if He said believe in me and he also said it isn't calling me Lord, but treating me as Lord that matters, whats so offensive to you when he told his disciples what to go to the world and teach, obey my commands, just Like God " obey my commands. they are good and right. whats the argument against following after them against believing Jesus?

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I will quote Jesus all you want. Which verses regarding salvation would you like? The Beatitudes? The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus? The Thief on the Cross? Oh wait, I know, how about, "forgive them Father for they know not what they do." Silly me, there's no love in any of those stories, just the Law and the consequences for not being perfect. Oops, forgot.

I am talking about your ranting and about quoting what you are going on about in respects to your witness against others.

Not about Jesus, or His words, I wouldnt even expect you to quote Jesus anyway, you rarely if ever quote Jesus.

I am talking about your rantings and to support your goings on with words from those you see as some sort of enemy of Jesus or yourself (or whatever you are going on about).

 

[followjesus]

And the will of God is for us to believe in His Son Jesus. To love God with all our heart mind and soul is to believe in Jesus and give thanks and praise to God for the free, irrevocable gift of salvation that is in Jesus.

" if you Love me , you will obey my commands" sincerity, Love must be sincere, in fact this is Love for God, that you walk in obedience to His commands and His commands aren't burdensome" Love for God isn't separate from obeying His commands. its how we express our Love for Him because he is supposed to have won our hearts through the cross. our whole hearts belong to the one who pauid the price for eternal Life. he said " if you Love me, you will obey my commands" simple its Just whether we Love Him if we do, then obedience shouldn't be offensive

 

[followjesus]

Definately, they all agree together in that same thing also

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators,nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Jesus said,

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And the will of the Father is to abstain from the same

1 Thes 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification,that ye should abstain from fornication:

Start it with this one even seeing this shows what we were

1 Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

1 Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; withsuch an one no not to eat.

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without?
do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

You could quote only the words of God and it would never matter, the word of God is often despised its just redirected at the messengers of the same. Paul speaks of not shunning to decalre the full counsel of God.

so much truth in here amen

 

[followjesus]

I am talking about your ranting and about quoting what you are going on about in respects to your witness against others.

Not about Jesus, or His words, I wouldnt even expect you to quote Jesus anyway, you rarely if ever quote Jesus.

I am talking about your rantings and to support your goings on with words from those you see as some sort of enemy of Jesus or yourself (or whatever you are going on about).[/QUOTE

God the Father " you must not eat of this fruit or you will surely die"....

Gods enemy " did God really say that? SURELY you wont die, it will make you like God"

Jesus The Son of God " if you Love me obey my commands, my Father will Love you and we will come and make our home with you, if anyone Loves me, He will obey my teaching, if anyone does not Love me He will not obey my teaching this is not my word But Gods who sent me"

Gods enemy " surely you don't need to obey Jesus and what He said, its all done already "grace grace" you don't need to obey him pshh herecy"

 

[followjesus]

Clearly you do not understand the ministry of the Holy Spirit in all those things I listed, as the Holy Spirit speaks through men to reprove other believers and non believers. By what Spirit do you believe the prophets, apostles, and all the anointed saints spoke by to teach and reprove the early Church? Also all those things I listed have the Spirit of God working in them. God is Spirit, God's words are Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit.

Reproving the darkness…

“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [SUP]G1651[/SUP] them.” (Eph 5:11)

“But all things that are reproved [SUP]G1651[/SUP] are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” (Eph 5:13)

“Them that sin rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] before all, that others also may fear.” (1 Tim. 5:20)

“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, [SUP]G1651[/SUP] rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2 Tim 4:2)

“Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince [SUP]G1651[/SUP] the gainsayers.” (Tit 1:9)

“This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;” (Tit 1:13)
“These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] with all authority. Let no man despise thee.” (Tit 2:15)

The law also reproves….
“But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced [SUP]G1651[/SUP] of the law as transgressors.” (Jas 2:9)

And the Lord also reproves believers ……

“And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked [SUP]G1651[/SUP] of him:” (Heb 12:5)
“As many as I love, I rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” (Rev. 3:9)

Now going back to this concept of how the Light reproves the darkness = sinful behavior

God is Light ….. 1 John 1:5 God’s Word is Light…. John 8:12

God’s laws and commandments are light….Proverbs 6:23

Jesus' disciples who have the Holy Spirit in them are light….Matthew 5:14

And the gospel message ministered by the Holy Spirit is also light….2 Corinthians 4:4

By the above things that are Light, and are of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, all these will reprove the world, either believers or unbelievers of its darkness.

wow that was a really edifying one God is Good !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

the holy spirit speaks through the conscience to a believer who doesn't refuse to hear their conscience, God designed us with one for the purpose of guiding us. if I'm in the wrong I WANT to know it, I want to feel bad if ive done someone wrong, if ive done God wrong I pray earnestly for years now, for a sensitive conscience. it is part of Gods design and the warnings, commands and principles taught in the word, activate that conscience for those who accept Jesus to guide us into all truth and righteousness. the conscience is a tool for the holy spirits work in us

In Romans 2, Paul writes to Jews (who had been given the law) concerning gentiles (who had not been given the law):

Romans 2:

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)


Please note, Rom 2:15 does not speak of the law being written in the heart. This is something God does within those who are born again. He puts His laws into the heart and writes His laws in the mind of the born again one.

Until someone is born again, he/she has the work of the law written in the heart. I believe the work of the law written in the heart is the conscience.


To have God's law put in our hearts and written in our minds is much more influential upon our hearts and minds.


Those who are not born again and have only the work of the law written in their hearts will rely on their thoughts to accuse or excuse one another (Rom 2:15).


Those who have the law put into their hearts and written in their minds stand upon a much more firm foundation.


I hope/pray I am making myself clear concerning the conscience. The conscience is good and I am thankful to
God He designed mankind with a conscience. However, to be born again and have God working within to actually put His laws in our hearts and write His laws in our minds is so much better.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Clearly you do not understand the ministry of the Holy Spirit in all those things I listed, as the Holy Spirit speaks through men to reprove other believers and non believers. By what Spirit do you believe the prophets, apostles, and all the anointed saints spoke by to teach and reprove the early Church? Also all those things I listed have the Spirit of God working in them. God is Spirit, God's words are Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit.

I will try one last time and then I will shake the dust off my feet.


John 16:8-11 speaks of the Comforter reproving unbelievers --- those who do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (vs 9).


John 16:13-14 speaks of the Comforter’s working with the believer to guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


God bless your heart.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

The Spirit of God is showing given a testimony against both of these

Mat 10:18
And ye shall be brought beforegovernors and kings for my sake,
for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

Mat 10:20
For it is not ye that speak,
but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

 

[fredoheaven]

true indeed how do we know who does? we learn what Jesus taught us to know and do and teach. Go forth into all nations baptizing the, in the name of the Father, Son and holy spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you surely I am with you even to the end of the age." Grace is CERTAINLY CERTAINLY in Christ, but it is found In Christ.

Ok, " how does one know who doesn't twists" when one's teaching or doctrine is clearly what the scriptures says. SOLA SCRIPTURA!

 

[followjesus]

I will try one last time and then I will shake the dust off my feet.


John 16:8-11 speaks of the Comforter reproving unbelievers --- those who do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (vs 9).


John 16:13-14 speaks of the Comforter’s working with the believer to guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


God bless your heart.

john 14:23-27 "Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."


if the holy spirit reminds us of everything Jesus said to us, then He definitely is working WITH believers to reprove sin and also remove sin, because Jesus said PLENTY about sin and righteousness. the words of Christ are directly connected to the holy spirit, our ability to hear His voice is in part our ability to recognize what Jesus said. Knowing what Jesus said to His followers, keeps us tuned into the holy spirit.