Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[JGIG]

Wonderful Scriptures that talk about the security of the believer, about our salvation by grace through faith, and about the eternal life given to believers! But none of them say that once a person is saved, he will always be saved. None of them say that a person who is not believing in Jesus is saved.

Eternal life that's given to the believer is not their life made longer, but the Eternal Life of Christ placed within them, joined to them, and sealed with the Holy Spirit until the Day of Redemption (see Ephesians).

That cannot be 'lost', nor can one be 'unsealed' by their own choice or behavior. There is simply no Scripture to support such notions, not even the out of context list in the OP.

-JGIG

 

[disciplemike]

Eternal life that's given to the believer is not their life made longer, but the Eternal Life of Christ placed within them, joined to them, and sealed with the Holy Spirit until the Day of Redemption (see Ephesians).

That cannot be 'lost', nor can one be 'unsealed' by their own choice or behavior. There is simply no Scripture to support such notions, not even the out of context list in the OP.

-JGIG

If God seals someone, I am pretty sure no person can break the seal. I think the key to this whole debate is this: Not everyone who claims to be a believer is sealed.

 

[PeterJens]

OSAS - this always puzzels me. Can I choose to be saved or not saved? As far as I understand
it, I am only really saved when God saves me. I can but ask, because I am incapable of saving
myself.

Now God knows me before the beginning of time. In a sense my fate is sealed. After learning about
emotions and families we become what we are brought up in, unless we develop out of it.

I have read of people feeling for years like atheists yet they still believe. In this barren place maybe
OSAS reassures them. But I keep on returning to one concept. Jesus on the cross.

It is here our security rests. It is this outstanding love, outstanding gift, the conquering of that which
we find impossible.

I am predestined for Heaven, I am sealed in the Holy Spirit, I have the wisdom of Christ working through
my life, yet if I express it in a different way to OSAS I am lost, a sinner, empty and do not know God.

Now if OSAS gives reassurance to churches groups, so people stay coming to church, keep paying
support, while their lives wash away, and hidden sin remains unresolved, believing this idea keeps
people alive in the faith, except it does not.

And when you say, when is someone saved, it goes silent, because in the end it is about a walk
and not an event. You may not know when you started, but you know if you are actually walking.

And yes we are spiritual people because we commune with God, and He dwells with us. This does
not make us spirit beings dwelling in human bodies.

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
Rev 6:9

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
2 Cor 5:1-3

And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.
1 Cor 15:49

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:42-44

Paul is very aware we are mortal in mortal bodies and we will be clothed in immortal bodies
when we are with the Lord.

This is very much not a picture of us being spirits but physical beings always with a body.

 

[PennEd]

I was just standing in my room asking God to give me His words so I don't rely on mine. And I was reminded of that man whom Jesus healed of blindness. The religious leaders in the temple questioned him about Jesus. But all the man could verify was, "I know this: I was blind, and now I can see!"

So I'm looking back at my own life and realize that once I was ruled by fear & anger, once I was a daily pot smoker, once I was an alcoholic, once I was a whole lot of things that were ungodly. Once I was a sinner. But now I'm not.

I don't know the day I ceased to be those things, don't even know how God changed me. And I say to him all the time, "You're so awesome, Father! How'd you do that? How'd you get me to trust and believe you? How'd you make your desires mine? How'd you make me see? You amaze me, God!"

Mind you, I know before this day is over my mind may think something motivated by the flesh because the carnal mind doesn't change. And you can call that sinful thought. Maybe I'll eat too much ice cream (gluttony) or get worrisome about something (doubt & unbelief) or turn my nose up to someone (pride) or judge others (self-righteousness) or whatever. That's the flesh for ya!

But if I do, I have an advocate. God will change me. He will get my attention, his Holy Spirit will shed light in my heart, and the Lord will change my mind because his truth sets a man free. He will make me see and make me more into his image. HE will do it.

How do I know? Because he's already done it over & over, and I know it wasn't my doing. I have no wisdom of myself. I am ruled by God. We all are.

All I know is once I was a woman in the flesh, and now I am a spiritual being. I didn't do it. God did.

Just needs to be refreshed. What a blessing to CC you are! Praise Jesus!

 

[mailmandan]

Eternal life that's given to the believer is not their life made longer, but the Eternal Life of Christ placed within them, joined to them, and sealed with the Holy Spirit until the Day of Redemption (see Ephesians).

That cannot be 'lost', nor can one be 'unsealed' by their own choice or behavior. There is simply no Scripture to support such notions, not even the out of context list in the OP.

-JGIG

Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Everyone on here seems to know God's part, So I'm addressing the balance as I know and teach God's part, But I'm defending the whole word of God, Not just His part.

Your "part" is to continue as you began with Jesus, by grace through faith in Him (Col. 2:6). Think you can handle that??

 

[God4me]

No, GOD says He is a respecter of persons but not on the basis of what they are,




God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. He doesn't 'seek us'. He is working out His own purpose.




quite right, at last you're getting there. All is of God's true grace,



God's side is the only one that counts. The part that says we have to do is also God's side. He enables us to do it. We cannot do anything without God.

You must be a Calvanist, they believe God is a respecter of people that saves and blesses some but not others.
You are a false cult.

 

[God4me]

Noted Greek scholar A.T. Robertson is a hyper-grace believer in Christ's finished work too! How blessed he is to know the Lord's great salvation and total forgiveness by His blood and by believing in Christ's completed work on our behalf!

Unfortunately everyone on planet earth that doesn't see things like you do are according to you "ignorant of the Bible and are false teachers." I think we are all catching on.

NO one can believe what the hyper grace teachers say, as they have to throw out a lot of scriptures

You only teach half truths, and that is a deception just as bad as a false cult.

 

[Mec99]

The problem is not how we receive our Salvation but have we received our Salvation.

We have many among us who know about God but God has not called them to Him. Our Churches today are packed with people who are false prophets. People who have not received Salvation.

Why?

Because its God who does the choosing, not us. Its God who determines who He will give his Salvation. We have no choice in the matter.

Why?

Because before the foundation of the world was created God already saw who would receive Him and who would reject Him.

 

[notuptome]

Those who teach that salvation can be lost do not have the correct foundation laid in their faith. Salvation is a regeneration not a rehabilitation. Salvation is corruption being made incorruptible by the power of God.

I can understand why some have doubts about their salvation. Some have said I will be saved and consider themselves saved. Others have said Oh God be merciful to me a sinner and save me. I submit that the second group was changed from dead in sins to alive in Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

So ask your self are you saved by your will or the will of God?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[God4me]

It SAYS, 'provided that you continue in THE FAITH, grounded and settled, not shifting from the hope of the Gospel which you have heard--'.

That is simply saying that that is required of a believer. that they continue in the faith (what is generally taught) grounded and settled and not shifting from the hope of the Gospel which you have heard--

That sounds to me what a believer will do (continue in the faith), as opposed to one who has heard and not finally believed.



who said so?


no, those who are fully equipped as opposed to those who couldn't care less. Of the latter Jesus says, 'I do not KNOW you'. That is why they were rejected.



are not all Christians?



Don't all Christians?



He makes them when He comes holy and without blemish. Do you think that you are NOW holy and without blemish? Because I can prove otherwise.



we should all be doing this.



taken out of context?




Describing those who do not finally find the true faith,

You have to twist the scriptures. Because you know that if you don't, you have no doctrines.

If you continue in the faith, means you might not.
Stop twisting the scriptures


Those who couldn't care less (As you say), Matt 25,
Won't go to heaven.
Stop twisting the scriptures

Jesus is talking to every Christian in Lk 21: 26.
Stop twisting the scriptures.

The false grace teachers can't love God, as they wouldn't teach what they teach, and they wouldn't throw away a lot of scriptures.

Jesus is coming for a holy people who are doing awesome miracles. Eph 5: 26--27.
That's the Greek meaning.
Stop twisting the scriptures.

Not every Christian is looking for Jesus, or purifies themselves.

I didn't take JP out of context.


Heb 6 & Heb 10 are talking about born again Christians.
Stop twisting the scriptures.

You really are a false grace teacher, AREN'T YOU.

 

[God4me]

Whenever obscure scriptures "seem" to be contrary to the abundance of very clear scriptures on the grace of Christ and salvation then we should never allow these obscure ones to take away the clear ones.

When we take a good detailed look into the churches of Revelation we can see some things that will help clarify them.

Here is a grace-based look at the churches of Revelation in detail if anyone is interested in those.

In revelation 2 one of the people that Jesus called to repent ( change your mind ) is Jezebel . Here are below some great grace-based teaching on this subject and many others too.

I like to use this website as it tackles the obscure scriptures and often false assumptions and accusations about the grace of Christ. It also has questions at the bottom of each article where you can ask questions. I often learn a lot from these that other people have asked.

It's important to feed ourselves in the areas that the Lord is bringing to us to look into so that we can grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.

Rest assured it is NOT our Advocate that is accusing us. He does love us and correct us but never accuses us. That is the very name of satan is accuser. I can assure you that Jesus is not satan.

There are a number of articles about the people in Revelation 2 and 3..:

Strike Her Children Dead (Revelation 2:23) ( Jezebel one )

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/06/...velation-2v23/


This one is all about the Laodicean church.

https://escapetoreality.org/category/laodicean-church/

This one is about " Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)"

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...rdis-rev-31-6/

Here is one about." Forsaking Your First Love: What Was the Ephesians’ Problem? (Rev 2:1-7)"

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...blem-rev-21-7/

Here is one about " Holding Fast in Thyatira: The Seductress versus the Savior (Rev 2:18-29)

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...or-rev-218-29/

You are taking a chance, going into the book of Rev, as the first 4 chapters prove your false grace teachings wrong.

 

[ZacharyB]

There is a God's part and a our part.

Yes, this obviously is the KEY to everything!
We are in a covenant.
God has His part.
We have our part.

God's grace makes it possible for some humans to make heaven.
Scripture talks about a small remnant making it.
Kinda reminds me of those who walk on that narrow path (Matt 7).

 

[ZacharyB]

You only ever give God's part, you never mention the, "If you, if you ,if you's".
God has given us the power to walk in His statutes, But we know that not every Christian keeps His commandments.

We need to start a thread on the IF and BUT verses.
On second thought, maybe not ... too many heart attacks!

 

[valiant]

You have to twist the scriptures. Because you know that if you don't, you have no doctrines.

I fact I have shown what the Scripture actually teaches.

If you continue in the faith, means you might not.
Stop twisting the scriptures

But those words were to nominal Christians. Only those who were genuine would continue in the faith,

Those who couldn't care less (As you say), Matt 25,
Won't go to heaven.
Stop twisting the scriptures

Those representing the five foolish virgins will not enter heaven because they are not genuine Christians, Jesus said of them 'I know you NOT'.

Jesus is talking to every Christian in Lk 21: 26.
Stop twisting the scriptures.

don't be ridiculous

The false grace teachers can't love God, as they wouldn't teach what they teach, and they wouldn't throw away a lot of scriptures.

your judgment brings you under judgment. But they obviously don't include me for I accept and teach the whole of Scripture.

Jesus is coming for a holy people who are doing awesome miracles. Eph 5: 26--27

LOL that's your kind out anyway. Beware Jesus doesn't say of you I NEVER KNEW YOU (Matt 7.22-23). That shows what He thought of your 'miracles'.

That's the Greek meaning.
Stop twisting the scriptures.

are you an expert in Greek? I suspect your knowledge of Greek is like your ability to perform miracles. Non-existent.

The verses are perfectly clear, first what He did (v 25), then the process that follows resulting from what He did (v26), then the final glorification of the believer (v.27).

Not every Christian is looking for Jesus, or purifies themselves.

How do you know?

I didn't take JP out of context.

I suspect you did. But it isn't important anyhow. What matters is Scripture.

Heb 6 & Heb 10 are talking about born again Christians.
Stop twisting the scriptures.

there is no mention of their being born again, or of their having been justified. They ARE however described as land fit to be burned, and not as fruitful land.
.

You really are a false grace teacher, AREN'T YOU.

LOL I teach the grace of God in salvation, and that God in that grace does it all. We Merely Respond.

Yours is false grace, because it is not unmerited grace at all.

 

[ZacharyB]

If you despise the righteousness of God and you exchange your righteousness for His
then you can lose your salvation.

If you insist on ignoring the several "practice righteousness" verses,
then you can lose your salvation.
E.G. "Those who practice righteousness are righteous." (1 John)
You obviously are not righteous. Hello!

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Noted Greek scholar A.T. Robertson is a hyper-grace believer in Christ's finished work too! How blessed he is to know the Lord's great salvation and total forgiveness by His blood and by believing in Christ's completed work on our behalf!

Unfortunately everyone on planet earth that doesn't see things like you do are according to you "ignorant of the Bible and are false teachers." I think we are all catching on.

NO one can believe what the hyper grace teachers say, as they have to throw out a lot of scriptures

You only teach half truths, and that is a deception just as bad as a false cult.

We can all celebrate with the noted Greek scholar A.T. Robertson that believed in this so-called hyper-grace is now in heaven rejoicing at the abundance of grace that His Lord Jesus Christ had bestowed on him!

He believed in Col. 1:23 and also that he was sealed forever by the Holy Spirit.

Lot's to be thankful for! Isn't our Lord's great salvation wonderful?

 

[valiant]

If you insist on ignoring the several "practice righteousness" verses,
then you can lose your salvation.
E.G. "Those who practice righteousness are righteous." (1 John)
You obviously are not righteous. Hello!

but we do not ignore them , we treasure them as we practise righteousness But not in order to be 'saved'. We are justified by faith alone. Being justified by faith we then practise righteousness (Rom 5-6).

we cannot lose GOD'S SALVATION. He carries it through from start to finish (John 10.28-29)

 

[ZacharyB]

Colossians 1
22. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23. IF you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the Gospel.

God no longer classifies people who habitually sin as believers!
God declares that disobedient sinners are displaying their UNBELIEF.

 

[valiant]

Believers are also healed, 1 Pet 2: 24, But not every Christians walk in divine health all the time.
And it's the same with Saints, Not every Christian live like a saint, [Set apart for God], every day.
There is a God side, [He calls us saint], and a Our side, [We have to live it out].

And how do we live it out,? "Work out your salvation with greatest care BECAUSE It is God Who works in you to will and do of His good pleasure' (Phil 2.12-13)