Healing - What is this actually?

Ariel82 · Aug 23, 2016

You can ask Him to heal you of both and trust that He will give you strength to ensure.

Even Jesus prayed "Your will be done" yet Some preach against praying that because they claim it lacks faith and "boldness".

I don't understand that thinking and believe it's arrogant, prideful and against the teachings of God to tell people NOT to pray for God's will to be done over our own foolish human desires.

Presumptive to assume that God has promised physical healing to all.

However, if you approach God with a humble heart He may still work a miracle and heal you not just spiritually but physically too.

He has done it before in my life.

He Has also used illness to make me stop and focus solely on breathing and Him.

I know that whatever feats I accomplish its solely through His power, because this body is dying and only He can keep it running until He calls me back home. I can feed it, I can excercise and give it rest, but I know this earthly body is just a temporarily tent and some day I will be allowed to go home. I just care for it because it's a gift from God and He has a mission He wants me to do on this earth.

I have faith He will keep it running until one day, He doesn't.

blue_ladybug · Aug 23, 2016

IMO, God does NOT heal EVERY body. If he could heal us once and for all, we would be immortal. Having any amount of faith to be healed is irrelevant. The bible says we need a mustard seed-sized amount of faith, and that ain't a very big amount. So anyone who says you need a heap load of faith or belief in order to be healed is full of hot air..

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2016

Ariel82 said:

The scripture says that something "like" scales fell from his eyes.
There are spiritual scales that cover the eyes of our hearts.

Show me a scripture where Jesus Himself puts a disease on people while He was on this earth - that's what we are talking about.

This religious nonsense that God strikes His beloved children down with diseases is from the pit of hell. People take an obscure scripture that says something "like" scales fell from Paul's eyes and make it into a disease that Jesus put on him on purpose. What religious garbage that is. Sorry but I don't fall for this nonsense at all.

Show me a scripture while Jesus was here on this earth revealing the nature and heart of the Father to His disciples. - then I will believe you - other then that - it's just religious nonsense and is an affront to the nature of our Father and Lord.

BenFTW · Aug 23, 2016

PeterJens said:

Such a doctrine contradicts what Jesus accomplished through His suffering, death, and resurrection. It also doesn't comply with what we witness in scripture with healing through Jesus and the apostles. Did you know there are instances in scripture where the apostles healed all? VVhat level of faith would it take to heal all? Yet, you say if you believed that prayer for healing worked you'd do it (for others and self), but since you don't, you chalk it up to God's will instead of your lack of belief. Do you suppose to heal all you must at least believe that God not only can heal but that it is His will? Otherwise, will you not step out in faith?

VVhy malign God when in reality it is you who has come short and not the Lord? You must believe. You can go out and heal the sick, lay hands and see them recover. You must believe. However you preface such action with an "if", to say if you believed this you would act and see others healed. However, you don't believe it so you don't do it and you therefore do not see the results of God's faithfulness. This is by your own admission.

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2016

Even in the Old Covenant they had healing of every disease if they believed..or perhaps this is just another form of God lying to us ??

I for one do not believe God is a liar.

Psalm 103:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Bless the LORD, O my soul, And forget none of His benefits;

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases;

When God brought the Israelites out of Egypt - after they ate of the roasted lamb when they had put the blood on their doorposts - God brought them all out and there was not on feeble in their midst.

Psalm 105:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] He brought them forth also with silver and gold: and there was not one feeble person among their tribes.
We have a better covenant built upon better promises of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things.

People can chose not to believe in any of the benefits that the Lord bought for us with His blood.

Ariel82 · Aug 23, 2016

You can keep moving the goal post, but I refuse to play your game.

"Religious garbage from the pits of hell"

Used to describe the fact that God sometimes strike His children with diseases or allows troubles to happen?

I guess it will be useless to share the following Bible verses...I am a simple person, I just prefer reading and believing what God clearly says instead of making excuses and twisting scripture to fit my theology.

I would rather re examine my thoughts and beliefs based upon revealed scriptures than twist it.

ecause he cares for you.

John 9:1-7 ESV

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” ...

PeterJens · Aug 23, 2016

BenFTW said:

I wonder. Is it possible I am not talking about doctrine, I am talking about experience.
Sounds like Ben, when people pray and healing does not happen, you believe it has happened
just you cannot see it.

This is like the prophets who say Jesus will return 1 oct 2015 and come 2nd oct he has returned
just in secret. Nope. You got a simple answer, the Lord is not going to heal.

Ofcourse if you want to believe you have received healing when you have not so it will appear later
but it does not, to need to go to your doctor about inventing reality around you.

BenFTW · Aug 23, 2016

Ariel82 said:

You believe your Heavenly Father, who loves you dearly would place upon you a life threatening disease? Cancer? VVhat if it kills you? Do you suppose your lesson was learned? Or rather missed? Father God is not abusive, though He can be firm if need be as any parent who loves their child.

However sending a curse (because that is how it is described in the OT) of sickness upon His children (which was the result of disobedience to the law) doesn't align under the covenant of grace that we are now in, in Christ. Remember, the promises of God are "Yes' and "Amen" and the curses of the law we have been redeemed from by Jesus.

I mean really. Read what you said. "Strike His children with disease."

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2016

Ariel82 said:

Show me the scriptures where Jesus struck someone with diseases to teach them a lesson. Jesus did say that He came to reveal the Father to us and that He is the exact representation of His nature.

It is religious garbage and is not even remotely true that God puts diseases on His children. People can believe whatever they want - but show me the scriptures.

Of course we are going to encounter trouble here on this earth. We live in a fallen world and we have the world, the flesh and the devil against us children of God. Jesus said - Be of good cheer for I have overcome the world and we do too - even our faith. 1 John 5:4

I can say that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but hopefully you would ask for scriptures.

I suppose God was fighting against Jesus here in this scripture when He went about doing "good" and healing all that were oppressed of the devil.

Acts 10:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

BenFTW · Aug 23, 2016

PeterJens said:

I wonder. Is it possible I am not talking about doctrine, I am talking about experience.
Sounds like Ben, when people pray and healing does not happen, you believe it has happened
just you cannot see it.

This is like the prophets who say Jesus will return 1 oct 2015 and come 2nd oct he has returned
just in secret. Nope. You got a simple answer, the Lord is not going to heal.

Ofcourse if you want to believe you have received healing when you have not so it will appear later
but it does not, to need to go to your doctor about inventing reality around you.

Experience tells me God is faithful. VVhat does your experience tell you?

PeterJens · Aug 23, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

When Ananias and Saphara were struck dead that was not God judging them.
When Paul says people have fallen ill from eating the breaking of bread in an unworthy
manner is not from God either.

It strikes me this contributor is not speaking the word of the Lord or quoting scripture
correctly. But then nothing has changed there then.

Willie-T · Aug 23, 2016

I don't think we are ever going to get it out of some people's minds...... they really do crave to be punished. Frankly, I see that as part of the legalistic desire to earn their own Salvation through their "suffering."

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2016

Ariel82 said:

John 9:1-7 has already been dealt with but I will give it again.

There are no punctuation marks in the Greek Text. The translators put them in on their own as in the ESV. Most translations "add" other words into the text too.

Somewords have been "added" to the text by the translators to express their bias. Here is the NASB and it too has the "added" words - "it was so".

John 9:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] "While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."

So, take out the "it was so" as it's not there in the Greek.

So, now this scripture in context says. " Neither this man sinned nor his parents." then Jesus says this -

"But that the works of God might be displayed in him we must work the works of Him who sent me as long as there is day."

Then Jesus says He is the light of the world and then proceeds to heal him by spitting on the ground and making mud to put into the man's eyes. ( imagine the scandal if someone was to do that today - they would have websites up showing this "heretic"... )

So, Jesus didn't say that the man was made sick so that God could heal him - Jesus said 'In order to have the works of God displayed in him - we must work the works of God as long as there is day." That is a vast difference. The original Greek had no periods or punctuation in the manuscripts.

When we take out the "added" bias of the words of the translators - we see what Jesus was really saying and that was He must do the works of the Father to heal the man because it is God's will for him to be healed and sins have no bearing on this.

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2016

Absolutely nowhere in scripture does it say that Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead by the Lord. That is just what is religiously taught.

What about Ananias and Sapphira?

Recently in Connecticut, a pastor stood in front of his church and confessed to the sin of adultery. Then the pastor fell down dead, right in front of everyone. This proves that God expects his people to live holy lives and if they don’t, he’ll kill them.

Of course, that’s complete nonsense. The story is true – a Connecticut pastor really did die – but the interpretation is all wrong. The fact is, God doesn’t treat us as our sins deserve. But what are we to make of Ananias and Sapphira who, like the poor pastor, dropped dead in a church (Acts 5:1-11)?

The bizarre deaths of Ananias and Sapphira have been debated for 2,000 years. Why did they die? Did God kill them? Why did God kill them? Why is this story in the Bible? Am I supposed to learn something from it? What? Will God kill me if I lie?

Questions like these have provided sermon material for countless fear-mongers. “God killed Ananias and Sapphira because they sinned and if you’re not careful he’ll kill you too! So fear God and behave yourself.” Has there ever been a more damnable lie inflicted on those whom God loves? (Actually, I can think of several worse lies.)

Unpunishable on account of Jesus

I could give you a hundred scriptures to show you that God did not kill Ananias and Sapphira for their sins and to assure you that he won’t kill you for yours, but three should suffice:

(God) doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve. (Psalm 103:10, CEV)

The punishment that brought us peace was on him… (Isa 53:5b)

God is not counting people’s sins against them. (2 Cor 5:19b)

The very good news of Jesus is that your sins and my sins and the sins of that Connecticut pastor and the sins of Ananias and Sapphira were condemned on the cross and there is nothing left to condemn! God was angry with your sins, which is why he poured out his wrath and dealt with them once and for all at Calvary (Rom 8:3).

Those who accuse God of killing sinners are confused about the cross. God doesn’t kill sinners, he saves sinners. God doesn’t hate sinners, he loves them!

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)

If God killed Ananias and Sapphira then the Bible is wrong and Jesus is not the Lamb of God who carried the sins of the world. (If you’re wondering about Herod, read this.)
There’s no shortage of sinners in this world. Why would God kill one couple and leave the rest alone?

I’ve heard it said that God killed Ananias and Sapphira to warn and purify the infant church. By making an example out of these hypocrites, the church would be filled with a holy fear and kept safe from liars and cheats. If so, then God failed spectacularly. Liars, cheats and hypocrites have always been with us, and there were plenty in the New Testament church.

I’ve also heard it said that God set up this killing to establish the authority of his apostles. Never mind that Peter had been commissioned by the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. Like a kid going through a gangster initiation he had to kill someone to establish his bona fides. How absurd! How utterly inconsistent with the message Peter had been commissioned to preach.

Meanwhile back in Connecticut

People sometimes ask me, “Did God kill Ananias and Sapphira?” When I reply in the negative I am invariably asked, “So who did?” as though there was some murder mystery to be solved. But the facts of their deaths may be more prosaic.

The pastor in Connecticut died from a sudden heart failure, which is very sad. Perhaps it was the stress of hiding a lie or losing his reputation that triggered the attack. At the time of his death there was speculation in the press that he didn’t plan to confess at all – the adultery was a long time ago – but he had been ambushed by church members who had heard about his affair. Emotions were running high. There was shouting. The man died.

Whatever happened, it’s a sad story. But I am struck by the similarities between the Connecticut story and the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira:

By having a secret affair, you could argue that the pastor lied to his church and he lied to God, as did Ananias and Sapphira.

The pastor was confronted by church members, as were Ananias and Sapphira.

The pastor dropped down dead, just like Ananias and Sapphira.

As far as I know, no one is blaming God for the pastor’s death, so why would anyone blame him for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira? If you must blame someone, blame sin. Sin kills people. Sin ruins marriages and destroys lives. Sin is bad.

And this is exactly why Jesus came – so that you might be free from the curse of sin and live. If there is any takeaway from the Ananias and Sapphira story, it’s that the wages of sin is death.

That’s the bad news. But the good news is that God is good, he doesn’t treat you as your sins deserve, and he freely gives life to sinners.

That’s the gospel of Jesus that we all need to hear!

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/09/what-about-ananias-and-sapphira/

I like to use this website as it tackles the obscure scriptures in a grace-based way which is the finished work of Christ. It also has at the bottom where you can ask questions. I often learn more reading those as well.

blue_ladybug · Aug 23, 2016

Willie-T said:

First, you can't earn salvation. Secondly, even saved people suffer through horrible trials and illnesses. Y'all are acting like christians are a different breed of species or something. We are all STILL just sinful people.. Illness still befalls us, sometimes for reasons known only to God.

Willie-T · Aug 23, 2016

Willie-T said:

blue_ladybug said:

Yeah, that's about what I said. It is no "courageous suffering in the illness God has struck me with."

blue_ladybug · Aug 23, 2016

Willie-T said:

Well, we NEED to be courageous during our illnesses and times of hardship. And we need God's strength. Goodness knows it was HIS strength that got me through having a herniated disk and sciatica. I pity anyone who goes through THAT agony.

Ahwatukee · Aug 23, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Good day Grace777,

While I do agree that God does not kill believers because of their sins, I do believe that God killed these two. And the reason I say this is that, how could Peter know that they were both going to die? The reason would have been because the Holy Spirit told Peter, which would infer that it was God who killed them. The other reason and main reason I believe is because of the following in red:

==========================================

But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? “While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.” Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.” And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

=========================================

It was because they both lied to the Holy Spirit. I would have to say that the odds of both of them falling dead one after another and Peter knowing about it ahead of time would favor the Holy Spirit as the one taking their lives, otherwise, the odds of Peter knowing that was going to happen would be greater than hitting any lottery. But again, I believe that it was because of their lying to the Spirit.

Just my two cents worth ....

Cee · Aug 23, 2016

Why not both?

Here's a Scripture, so that you may know the Son of Man to forgive sins, take up your bed and walk.

Is it easier to say your sins are forgiven or take up your bed? When He said take up your bed there needed to be evidence, but to say your sins are forgiven there wasn't. But seeing the power of God also revealed the Authority of God.

PaulMack said:

Cee · Aug 23, 2016

Right now a mustard seed size of faith, looks like believing God that He is life and the enemy is the one steals, kills, and destroys.

And keeping that little seed planted and it will grow and grow.

blue_ladybug said:

Healing - What is this actually?

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